Dating Montblanc 146 (Legrand)

[sansenri]

ok so if 14k (instead of 14c) is post 82 (the OP says 14k starts much earlier) and black piston is up to 85 I assume I can approx. date my pen in that range.

 

I can see in any case it's difficult because several elements on the same pen may tend not to coincide with the available dating data...

[TheDutchGuy]

Very informative discussion and great dating chart - thanks!! I already knew that my 146 is a mosaic pen, probably due to one or more trips to Hamburg. But it’s an awesome pen and I cherish it just the way it is.

-146 mm: post-1994

-Meisterstück cap ring engraving: 1994-1997

-14C mono-colour EF nib: pre-1980

-nib holes left and right of nib: pre-1994

-plastic feed with hole: post-2000

-slightly-curved clip without engravings (possibly a replacement): pre-1997?

-clear striped ink window: post-1990

-straight grip with trumpet collar: post-1990

 

Adding it up, possibly a 90s pen with a vintage mono-colour 14C nib, a modern feed and a replacement clip.

 

 

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

It's nice to see @ what age my two 146's are, one @ F the other OB/OBB.Both have Germany, no number. One is clear the other gray.

So with no W. Germany both are after '91. Both have regular flex nibs.

For a Large pen, they are somewhat light and nimble posted. Balance  is adequate. Prefer it to a 800.

 

I prefer my '50's-60 medium-large 146, it is very well balanced posted, and has a maxi-semi-flex nib.

""""14C mono-colour EF nib: pre-1980 ???"""

mine are monotone 14K/585.

 

"""Germany was used on Montblanc pens during the 60's, 70's and 80's. W-Germany was only used for a short period between when Germany recognized that East Germany existed and reunification. Then back to Germany."""""

 

So I'm going to have to go back to find exact dates....though I don't see much difference, but I'm 'nooboie' to the 146...at least dating one.

 

@ 5 years ago, one in near mint condition sat in an live auction hall, and I felt sorry for the poor lonely pen; getting it as start bid price of E150......pure impulse buy, In I was looking for other pens later inthe auction.

 

.I was more interested in chasing very slowly, very slowly taking me a decade to get three 50-60's MB's with semi-flex and maxi-semi-flex nibs. 234 1/2 Deluxe(52-54 only) KOB semi-flex, rolled gold 742 with a nib between semi-flex and maxi-semi=flex; the only one I have to me a slightly odd flex (35 semis&14 maxis) , and a medium-large 146 with a wonderful maxi-semi-flex nib.

 

The other regular flex OB/OBB sat on a black glass plate more or less regular glass inkwell, and I got it too for the start price of E150. The boot of the inkwell made it worth chasing to me.

 

[TheDutchGuy]

3 minutes ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

Prefer it to a 800.

 

Oh yes, definitely. Both are great pens, but personally I’ll take the 146 any day. Must say that the removable nib/feed/collar of the Pelikan is a great feature, though.

[Shamin Sebastian]

On 6/29/2018 at 12:40 AM, neugeekig said:

Not only the 149 underwent various changes over time ...

 

Since the 146 was first produced in 1950, it changed a lot and even went out of production for a decade.

 

About a year ago, when I wanted to date the used 146s I was buying, I started this spreadsheet.

And as I learned a lot in this forum, I'm happy to share the gathered information - as suggested by siamackz, carlos.q and sanfong, here is the the extra thread on it

 

shared google doc - always up to date: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GhjNqcZwmrFJMyS7sn9A517VQQxDPbotERorBwRqMgI/edit?usp=sharing

 

If you find any mistake or have new information, please share. I'll try to keep this doc updated.

 

cheers!

Stefan

 

 

PS: thanks to DKbRS for the inspiration with his dating 149s thread & chart

 

[Shamin Sebastian]

Hi all. I've been using fountain pens for a few years now. And I own a Lamy, Waterman, Sailor,Parker and Sheaffer. I would like to buy a Mont Blanc. I recently came across a pre owned Mont Blanc Meisterstuck 146 pre 1980s which costs approximately half the price of a brand new one. So should I go for the pre owned one or buy a new one. Which is better?

[TheDutchGuy]

1 hour ago, Shamin Sebastian said:

So should I go for the pre owned one or buy a new one. Which is better?

 

If the pen comes from a trusted seller and if you know what you can/should expect from a 146, then the pre-owned one might make you happy and save you a lot of money. Otherwise, I’d suggest visiting a brick and mortar store to try one out before you buy. 

[Bo Bo Olson]

Two of my three 146's are from in or about the '90. They are large pens. I'm ocd on balance. They are ok, fairly light and nimble and can write posted, which is unusual for a large pen. Regular flex nib.

The other 146 is '50-60's medium-large one. Has great balance, a maxi-semi-flex nib....1 in 5 German pens with a bit of flex of that era was so on my guess. Will be at least a semi-flex. 

I'd gotten lucky with the maxi.

Semi-flex and maxi-semi-flex nibs are flair nibs, not calligraphy ones.

Sooner or later you are going to get a semi-flex, and the vintage 146 balances as well as a 400nn.

 

I'd suggest used, if so then, the better '50-60's 146. Go out of your way to get one; try Penboard.de. (top of the line in used great shape  pens)

All my MB's 5-6 outside of my Virginia Woolf were bought used.

 

How I hate the mealy mouthed sanitation engineer for a garbage man, and pre-owned for used.

Pre-Owned can be legit, with the pen that is NOS, only.

 

NOS, New Old Stock......a used pen that has never been used. Still full stickered.

I've had 5-6 over the last decade. 3 are now just old pretty used pens.

I wouldn't insist on NOS on any pen.........but some times one is lucky..................then one uses it.....why have a pen you don't use?

[AcLondon]

No doubt this is a question that has been answered elsewhere but because it surrounds one letter, I can't find it in a search.  I've come accustomed to look for a double 'x' marking on the underside of 1950s Meisterstuck clips.  I now own two 1950s 146s and both of them have just one 'x', not two. They are from very different sources so not part of one batch.  They're both early versions - one is 146g, has a book stamped 1953, and a longer window while the other has ski-slope nib and longer window.  Is one 'x' standard for earlier 146s?  

[Bo Bo Olson]

I'd never heard of this, but there's lots I don't know.  But can't get the top of the pen off to look well at the top of the inside of the clip.

Even after taking the gold polish cloth, it looks like I have a small bit of  green brassing up there and I can see an x faintly on the right side at the bend of the clip.

I will admit to having never looked that sharp at the bend of a clip before.

[RBullCZ]

On 3/13/2021 at 11:10 PM, sansenri said:

I'm having another go at interpreting the information on my 146

 

The ring on the cap says Meisterstuck 146

the length of the pen when capped is 14.2 cm

(both mean 73-94)

 

nib: monotone 14K so 75-90

feed: ebonite split feed 75-90

ink window: grey solid 78-90 (this narrows it down to 78-90, and still valid even in case the nib had been changed)

piston: black plastic! 75-84 (this would narrow it further down to 78-84)

engraving on clip: Germany, before 80 (this would narrow it down to 78-80)

 

collar: it looks like a trumpet collar which should be from 85 onward...

but is it in fact? any comments useful...

 

I have literally the same 146, matching yours point by point (Germany, Meisterstuck 146, plastic piston, two part barrel with grey window, trumpet collar on the section, same ebonite feed and uni color F nib 14K). Purchased from EBay seller in Italy as "never inked" in original vintage box. The holes for nib un-screwing key are on 12-6 position (under and above the nib).

[sansenri]

precisely the same, unscrewing key holes under and above the nib. Does this bring in another dating mark?

The two contrasting aspects here are that the Germany engraved clip should mean before 80 while the trumpet collar after 85...

one of the two is obviously incorrect as a rigid date mark, but there are so many evidences that Montblanc used what they had in stock that I'm just happy to know the pen is probably from the early 80s

[AcLondon]

Hi, I've a question about the engraving's on a 146 cap ring for dating purposes.  I've bought (but not received) what I think is an early resin version.  It has 146 on the clip ring. I haven't seen a celluloid version with this but all of the resin ones I've seen do have it.  On the word 'No' (as in No. 146) the 'o' is low, not elevated, and does not have a line under it.  I've looked hard and I can't find another example of this.  Does anyone know when this started?  Do, for example, the 'true transitionals' (I'm not ready to call mine one of these) have a '146' on their clip rings?  I think the answer is no to that but I'd love to hear any opinions.  Thanks, as always, AC

[bwDraco]

I have both a 146 and a 149, and both bear new stamps on the nib. Instead of being stamped 14K or 18K for the gold content, they now say Au585 or Au750. The StØD hallmark also doesn't have an oval around it. Also, the 149 has "Pix®" on the cap band, something that AIUI was previously removed. Both pens were purchased new from Montblanc Boutiques; the 149 was acquired in August 2020, while I got the 146 last month (May 2021).

 

I'm getting the impression these changes occurred around 2018, but I can't put my finger on exactly when this happened. Any idea when Montblanc switched to the new stamps?

 

(Cross-posted from the 149 dating thread.)

 

Draco

[Niskayuna55]

I've done my research on my 146 but can't get the resolution that I need in dating it.  I'm going to need some input on this one.........so here we go :

 

Clip:  No engraving at all, no W. Germany or anything . If you look at the clip from the side the point of contact with the cap looks "triangular".

 

Capband:  Imprinted with Montblanc Meisterstuck No. 146

 

Ink Window:  Pale bluish-gray

 

Piston Mechanism Threading:  Plastic

 

Nib:  Monotone gold, 14C.  The tip of the nib is ground flat, no angle to it and it writes extremely wet.....pretty sure it's a Medium. So I'm assuming the nib would be classified as a "Medium Stub".  The feed is definitely a split- ebonite......a wonderful writer. 

 

I am thinking this pen is very early 70's and it's condition is near-perfect ! Amazing, considering it's going on 50 years old.  But I need the community to help me to "nail down" its production date.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AcLondon]

Sounds like an early to mid 70s 146 to me with an unusual (perhaps early?) clip.

[wspohn]

Question on the metal pens (apologies if this was addresses earlier in the thread an I missed it).  What are the dates for production of the vermeil version of the 146 - anyone know?

[sansenri]

On 6/19/2021 at 2:33 AM, Niskayuna55 said:

I've done my research on my 146 but can't get the resolution that I need in dating it.  I'm going to need some input on this one.........so here we go :

 

Clip:  No engraving at all, no W. Germany or anything . If you look at the clip from the side the point of contact with the cap looks "triangular".

 

Capband:  Imprinted with Montblanc Meisterstuck No. 146

 

Ink Window:  Pale bluish-gray

 

Piston Mechanism Threading:  Plastic

 

Nib:  Monotone gold, 14C.  The tip of the nib is ground flat, no angle to it and it writes extremely wet.....pretty sure it's a Medium. So I'm assuming the nib would be classified as a "Medium Stub".  The feed is definitely a split- ebonite......a wonderful writer. 

 

I am thinking this pen is very early 70's and it's condition is near-perfect ! Amazing, considering it's going on 50 years old.  But I need the community to help me to "nail down" its production date.

 

 

 

a go at dating your pen with the provided info and the table in this thread

 

" Clip:  No engraving at all, no W. Germany or anything . If you look at the clip from the side the point of contact with the cap looks "triangular".

 W. Germany starts in 1980 so this just means before 80

"Capband:  Imprinted with Montblanc Meisterstuck No. 146"

 from 73 onward so this means from 73 to 80

"Ink Window:  Pale bluish-gray"

light blue is 73-81
grey is 78-90
a picture would help, if the window is actually blue 73 to 80 is still more restrictive

"Piston Mechanism Threading:  Plastic"

 73 to 84
so the previous 73 to 80 is still more restrictive

"Nib:  Monotone gold, 14C." 

please check 14c should be bi-colour, if monotone should read 14k   75 to 92
in the latter case this becomes  75 to 80

 

"The tip of the nib is ground flat, no angle to it and it writes extremely wet.....pretty sure it's a Medium. So I'm assuming the nib would be classified as a Medium Stub
The feed is definitely a split- ebonite......a wonderful writer.  "

split feed 75 to 90

75 to 80 is still more restrictive

what about the collar? straight? trumpet? pictures needed, this is the decisive factor

 

length should be 142 mm

 

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

8 minutes ago, sansenri said:

"Ink Window:  Pale bluish-gray"

light blue is 73-81
grey is 78-90
a picture would help, if the window is actually blue 73 to 80 is still more restrictive

 

Have two both with Montblanc Meisterstuck No. 146. split feed 75 to 90

13 minutes ago, sansenri said:

if monotone should read 14k   75 to 92...both are  Monotone.

Have one in gray (can guess '75-80...and one that is clear.

What date should the clear window be?

[sansenri]

11 minutes ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

 

Have two both with Montblanc Meisterstuck No. 146. split feed 75 to 90

Have one in gray (can guess '75-80...and one that is clear.

What date should the clear window be?

 

the solid blue window is 73-81

the solid grey window is 78-90

the clear window which however has grey stripes is from 91 onward

 

(clearly I'm taking for granted the information in the table, which is not 100% certain)