Dating Montblanc 146 (Legrand)

[mirko]

Such beautiful and detailed work!
It allowed me to date my 146 which I thought to be early 80s to be actually likely more 1991-1992.

14C nib (lovely OB), clear striped ink window, early plastic feed, all fits

 

Only thing is the cap:

Engraved with MONTBLANC - MEISTERSTÜCK No 146

But no Geremany, W-Germany or serial number to be found at the clip end, that is completely smooth (apart from what happens in careful use).

 

I have no doubts it is genuine (who would counterfeit an Oblique, to start), but am amazed no Germany variation is engraved.

 

But again: what a beautiful detailed piece of work!

[JCC123]

I have a Platinum 146 purchased back when they were introduced. I recently removed the piston in order to lube it. I noticed that the piston for it is reversed from the normal piston. The normal version has the wider diameter facing the nib. Mine had the wider diameter facing the rear of the pen. Anyone else noticed that design?

[Michael R.]

Yes, one of the changes made during the last years:

 

P1530590 by pensninks, auf Flickr

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[JCC123]

2 hours ago, Michael R. said:

Yes, one of the changes made during the last years:

 

P1530590 by pensninks, auf Flickr

 

Cheers

 

Michael

That's it exactly the version on the top! The last years of what? Do you mean all of the newer piston fillers now have this type of piston orientation? Or do you mean the last year of a certain model's production? Mine was purchased back in 2002-03.

[kaushla]

I was given a Montblanc 146 in an unsolicited exchange by an unscrupulous repairman who kept my celluloid 146 without my permission. It had a corroded barrel. That was c.2002  

The chart is very useful but some points remain puzzling for putting a date to the pen or even its "correctness". Nib: bicolour 14K, feed: early plastic, ink window: solid grey, piston: brass, cap ring engraving 'Meisterstuck 146', clip ring engraving W-Germany, end ring: smooth band. Going by the chart, the nib and feed do not match the rest of the pen.

I should be grateful if any member could help with an opinion.

[Paul-in-SF]

If the pen you are describing is the one you got from an unscrupulous repairman, it doesn't seem out of reason to suppose that he changed the nib and feed to a set from another pen, or at least he knew of such an exchange, without telling you. 

[kaushla]

On 2/20/2021 at 12:17 AM, Paul-in-SF said:

If the pen you are describing is the one you got from an unscrupulous repairman, it doesn't seem out of reason to suppose that he changed the nib and feed to a set from another pen, or at least he knew of such an exchange, without telling you. 

Quite plausible. He even had the cheek to write me a letter saying the celluloid Montblanc 146 was unusable as a fountain pen but he could sell the parts; so he was keeping it and sending me another. I had sent the pen for repairs to America with a friend and was in another country. Imagine my sense of outrage when I received the letter and the pen in question some months later.

 

I guess I was luckier than some of this man's other customers. I learnt years later on Facebook that he had not bothered to return their pens to some customers.

[coinlvr]

Hello, I recently purchased a MB 146 vintage on the Bay. The pen has a monotone 4810, split feed, grey window for ink. However the clip ring does not have any germany or west germany inscribed on it. Does it mean that the pen is not legit? I hear that many pens have Germany or W.Germany inscribed on the clip ring. See the pictures below and help me dating the pen. I am soaking it as it is full of dried black ink. Thank you. 

[sansenri]

thank you so much, extremely useful, I am about to purchase a 146 and was looking exactly for this info to date it approx

the 146 in question has

the mono 14k nib

what looks like the split ebonite feed (I'm waiting for a better photo to judge)

the grey resin clear window

the brass piston under the finial

the collar seems to be trumpet shaped (again waiting for better picture)

the clip with w.germany

the wording Meisterstuck 146 on the cap band

length 142 mm

 

based on your info I'd say it's a 85-90 pen, waiting on the last pics to be sure

 

your summary work is much appreciated

 

[sansenri]

18 hours ago, coinlvr said:

Hello, I recently purchased a MB 146 vintage on the Bay. The pen has a monotone 4810, split feed, grey window for ink. However the clip ring does not have any germany or west germany inscribed on it. Does it mean that the pen is not legit? I hear that many pens have Germany or W.Germany inscribed on the clip ring. See the pictures below and help me dating the pen. I am soaking it as it is full of dried black ink. Thank you. 

from 72 to 79 there was no clip engraving if I understand the table correctly

 

and since you have a monotone nib that starts from 75

this means your pen is likely from 75 to 79

 

but morover since the collar is present, which starts from 78

you pen is likely from 78 to 79!

 

[coinlvr]

2 hours ago, sansenri said:

from 72 to 79 there was no clip engraving if I understand the table correctly

 

and since you have a monotone nib that starts from 75

this means your pen is likely from 75 to 79

 

but moreover since the collar is present, which starts from 78

you pen is likely from 78 to 79!

 

I am so grateful Sanseri, as it was a sort of big investment for me given the times that we all are living in. Here are some clearer pictures so that you can perhaps provide more information. Does this look real MB? Sorry for being so paranoid as I must learn to trust the Bay world. I soaked it now for 24 hours and all dried ink is gone. Thank you forum members for your help. So it is 78-79. Thanks again.

[coinlvr]

Here are better pictures. Sorry my phone camera is not the greatest. 

[sansenri]

honestly speaking your photos are of little help, except your last one...

 

I would encourage you to interpret the table by yourself...

but anyway

 

nib:

monotone that's evident 75-90

what does the engraving say? (I bet it says 14K, not 14C) (75-90)

 

feed: we need a photo of the underside of the nib, the feed is dark you need a lot of light to see it, go outside or by a window!

it will likely be a split feed (75-90), it has a horizontal line close to the tip

 

ink window: grey solid 78-90 (this narrows it down to 78-90)

 

grip with bulge collar (your photo shows that clearly) 78-90

 

piston, plastic or brass

you need to unscrew the bottom finial until part of the piston shows

if its black plastic 75-84 (this would narrow it down to 78-84) most likely as this would match with the bulge collar

if it's brass 85 onward (this would narrow it down to 85-90)

 

engraving on clip: this puzzles me too, I am not sure whether there are some clips with no engraving, with Germany, with W-Germany.

what I understand is that if the engraving is W-Germany that means 80-90

no engraving is likely before, 73-79

(which would narrow it to 78-79)

 

The ring on the cap should say Meisterstuck 146

and the length of the pen when capped should be 14.2 cm

 

It looks absolutely legit to me.

[sansenri]

By the way, in the meantime I also received my 146!

(no pics yet but will post)

 

so:

The ring on the cap says Meisterstuck 146

the length of the pen when capped is 14.2 cm

(both mean 73-94)

 

nib:

monotone 14K so 75-90

 

feed: ebonite split feed 75-90

 

ink window: grey solid 78-90 (this narrows it down to 78-90)

 

collar, it looks like a trumpet collar 85 onward (this would mean 85-90)

 

piston, this is odd... black plastic! 75-84 (this does not overlap with 85-90)

is it likely that the pen is in the 84-85 range?

 

engraving on clip: this is odd too, Germany! (not W-Germany) but from 80 to 91 it should say W-Germany according to the table

 

any other interpretations?

thanks

 

 

[JCC123]

Looking at the spreadsheet, I think it’s off on when platinum was introduced. I saw my receipt for a nib exchange at the beginning of 2001. I remember that I had the pen for a few months before making the exchange. That means that the Platinum was introduced at least in 2000. Can the author double check the release year? Thanks.

[sansenri]

clearly there can be so many exceptions that it's difficult for such a spread sheet to be very accurate, but it's already a very useful tool.

I've read several other threads on the topic, not just on FPN, and it would seem that before the W-Germany inscription on the clip, i.e. before 1980, in several cases the inscription was Germany (which is not mentioned here) other times no inscription.

 

my pen has the grey window and inscription Germany for which there does not seem to be a match on the chart.

(btw, I'm pretty sure this pen is original as is, single owner, from a collection, where it was seldom used)

[JCC123]

So how do we get the author to update the spreadsheet to reflect this new information? We're trying to have the most accurate spreadsheet are we not?

[coinlvr]

On 3/4/2021 at 3:03 PM, sansenri said:

By the way, in the meantime I also received my 146!

(no pics yet but will post)

 

so:

The ring on the cap says Meisterstuck 146

the length of the pen when capped is 14.2 cm

(both mean 73-94)

 

nib:

monotone 14K so 75-90

 

feed: ebonite split feed 75-90

 

ink window: grey solid 78-90 (this narrows it down to 78-90)

 

collar, it looks like a trumpet collar 85 onward (this would mean 85-90)

 

piston, this is odd... black plastic! 75-84 (this does not overlap with 85-90)

is it likely that the pen is in the 84-85 range?

 

engraving on clip: this is odd too, Germany! (not W-Germany) but from 80 to 91 it should say W-Germany according to the table

 

any other interpretations?

thanks

 

 

Congratulations and Kudos! Enjoy your MB 146 as I am doing it. Kind regards from Sunny California.

[AcLondon]

Sure I'll throw my hat in to this...   I picked up a very ugly looking and battered 146 at a French auction last week.  I couldn't let the blue window go and hit the 'bid again' button.  What kind of date do I have on my hands here?  I appreciate without a look at internal parts and feed, a lot of info is missing.

It has:

- 18c badly tarnished nib - so badly tarnished it's hard to be sure about tone but likely be monotone (earliest monotones 1972ish?). 

- A blue window.  Definitely not grey-blue unless they've lured me with clever photography!
- Non-trumpet grip.  Rim on top of grip.  Hard to compute with blue window.

- 'Germany' on clip.  Did I read that some 60s pens had that but a period in 70s did not?

Poor photo attached.  I'll post more when/if I figure out how to get it out of Paris.

[Michael R.]

Most likely blue ink stains on the window. It's an early version (no trumpet section; "C" nib) of the regular resin version and not the 60s blue ink window model.

Cheers

 

Michael