Dating Montblanc 146 (Legrand)

[gyasko]

Except for a few years before and a few years after 1989, German pens will be marked just Germany.

[Darcy1978]

Except for a few years before and a few years after 1989, German pens will be marked just Germany.

 

Ah that would then be a change in the chart, where it says that they were marked W-Germany from 1979 to 1990.

[Michael R.]

A few subtle differences on the 1950s pens (very early model on the right, early model in the middle, later model on the left):

 

P1540235 by pensninks, auf Flickr

 

Different 146 feed styles 1949-2000s:

 

P1540195 by pensninks, auf Flickr

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[bemon]

Anyone have any insight as to the word "metal" engraved into a the clip band on a 146/Legrand?

[Michael R.]

Declaration that it‘s not gold or silver.

[como]

Lovely photo showing different feeds. Thank you very much for sharing. I favor the ski slopes :-)

 

A few subtle differences on the 1950s pens (very early model on the right, early model in the middle, later model on the left):

 

P1540235 by pensninks, auf Flickr

 

Different 146 feed styles 1949-2000s:

 

P1540195 by pensninks, auf Flickr

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[CS388]

Lovely photo showing different feeds. Thank you very much for sharing. I favor the ski slopes :-)

 

 

Me too. It's such a beautiful design - and a very efficent feed

From the Golden age of pens!.

 

A few subtle differences on the 1950s pens (very early model on the right, early model in the middle, later model on the left):

 

P1540235 by pensninks, auf Flickr

 

Different 146 feed styles 1949-2000s:

 

P1540195 by pensninks, auf Flickr

 

Cheers

 

Michael

 

What a wonderful photo, `Micheal!

And what a stellar line-up.

Brightens up my day, just looking at them.

Interesting to see the ski-slope variations.

Thank you for sharing.

[bemon]

Declaration that it‘s not gold or silver.

Is it legit? My co-worker asked about his Montblanc. All I can tell is that it’s a 146 or a Legrand.

[Michael R.]

Yes, some authentic 146 are marked like this.

[Paul-in-SF]

Thanks very much for the information in the chart and the other resources, it's a great help. I have tried to date my 146 Le Grand that I got a few months ago, but there are some inconsistencies, and some things I don't understand. I'm hoping for some help. 

 

Most of the facts of the pen that I can determine without attempting to take it apart correspond to it being no earlier than 1978 (gray ink window) and no later than 1984 (piston material). However, two things are not consistent. The nib holes are definitely centered above and below the nib, and not on the sides, and the chart says this started in 1994. And the clip ring only says Germany on the back, and there is no serial number that I can find; there is nothing on the underside of the clip either. I can't find any date for this configuration. 

 

How serious is the lack of a serial number? 

[GOTO10]

If they pen has been back to MB at any point the configuration could change.

 

The nib/feed/collar could have been removed for service by a previous owner, so the orientation of the slots could be anywhere.

 

I believe pens from before 1991 don't have serial numbers, so that shouldn't be an issue. 

[PAKMAN]

Which years were the Burgundy 146's made? Does anyone have a good way of dating them?

[Paul-in-SF]

4 hours ago, GOTO10 said:

If they pen has been back to MB at any point the configuration could change.

 

The nib/feed/collar could have been removed for service by a previous owner, so the orientation of the slots could be anywhere.

 

I believe pens from before 1991 don't have serial numbers, so that shouldn't be an issue. 

Thanks, that all makes sense. And since (according to the chart) the inscription of W. Germany rather than Germany started in 1980, then it looks like I can date my pen between '78 and '80. 

[NumberSix]

My newly-acquired 146 look like it might be a 1990-1991, based on the chart. 

 

Monocolor 14k

Window - clear solid - this is the tricky one. It could be "grey", which ends in 1990

W Germany

 

1991 is the only one that fits, except for the ink window. Or maybe the feed is ebonite. It does not look like the one I have seen on a 149, though. If it is, then the pen could be basically any time in the 80s. That makes more sense, given the clues.

 

Here's the feed. Is this a split ebonite? 

Edited January 7, 2021 by NumberSix
add photo

[niksch]

On 3/16/2019 at 2:00 PM, Michael R. said:

To keep this going:

 

While I'm still working on putting dates on all changes - which is not easy - the following main variations can be found:

• transitional model; single barrel construction without section rim, blue in window, two-tone nib from the celluloid model (60s)

   

Would anybody know if the transitional version with the blue (not grey) ink window also came with a friction fit filler unit? Both of my pens already have the screw-in filler unit of more recent models.

 

Cheers Michael

 

Michael, My transitional 146 model has all of the characteristics in your bullet point above.  I'd add that mine has a rounded piston ring and the ink feed has grooves on the face of the feed, but not on the shank (like a mid-60s 149).  It has a threaded piston mechanism.  The cap is almost identical to the '73 first modern editions in dimension, but the clip on my pen appears identical to my '50s 146s. The dome threads into the cap like the '50s 146s, (opposite the 149) but the thread material is white, versus black threads on my '50s 146s.  I assume that to have ben a new manufacturing process in the cap dome production with new material for the star.

 

[Michael R.]

@niksch thank you for your input!

Seems like those pens came with slightly different features. Especially metal parts and feed.

 

Not sure if I've mentioned this here before: I have found some hints in older Montblanc price lists that those pens are the result of Montblanc repair jobs. At some point of time no celluloid parts were available (or simply not used anymore) and those new resin parts were used to repair and maintain older celluloid 146 pens send for repair. This would explain the use of older style nibs, clips and maybe even gold ring or cap top. 

Barrel, cap and filler of the damaged celluloid pens were replaced with new parts.

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[Odir]

Hi.

 

I have a MB 146 from the 80's. All the characteristics are from the late 1980's MB 146. "W Germany" on the clip, no serial number, solid ink window, "Meistertuck 146" the band, etc, etc.

 

But... the monocolor nib is not in 14k gold, but in 18k gold.

 

Anyone knows about 18k nibs in resin 146s?

 

Thanks.

[Michael R.]

Made for markets which require the use of at least 18K gold to call it "(solid) gold".

I believe e.g. France is one of those countries.

 

Cheers

 

Michael

 

 

[Odir]

4 hours ago, Michael R. said:

Made for markets which require the use of at least 18K gold to call it "(solid) gold".

I believe e.g. France is one of those countries.

 

Cheers

 

Michael

 

 

Thanks!

[PAKMAN]

I went back to the chart and was able to date my new to me 146R to 1996! Very good information in this topic!