Colors Of Ink Likely To Fade, And Those Not --

[Charles Skinner]

This may be a hard question to answer. I am concerned, somewhat, about my journals " standing the test of time," so to speak. I should not even worry about it, because I am fairly sure my decedents a hundred years from now will care very little about my life and the world I lived in.

 

Still, I want to give them that opportunity. My journals will never be exposed to sunlight, which as I understand it, is a big trouble maker when it comes to causing inks to fade. They will always be closed ---- except when being read ---- and likely will be in a dark area.

 

Now, I like to mix inks and see what I come up with. Today the mixture turned out to be a light golden brown. Nice color, but certainly does not jump off of the page! ---- It is "light," for want of a better word. ---- So, is it more or less likely to fade, or will it make very little difference? Twenty years from now, if half a page is written in a "light color," and the other half written with a dark blue ink, will one fade more than the other? It seems to me ---- unscientific man that I am ---- seems to me that the dark blue would stand the test of time better even if not exposed to sunlight.

 

Your thoughts, please. Excuse mistakes, if any.

 

"A fool can ask more questions that a wise man can answer!"

 

C. S.

[Astronymus]

To cite myself: "Blue ink should be more resistant to UV-light. You can see the effect on advertizing boards. On old posters the red color is the first to go. That is because red pigments absorb blue and UV-light. Blue und UV is on the more energetic spectrum. The light will destroy the red pigments as they absorb it. Blue color reflects most of the blue light or lets it pass so only low energy red light is absorbed."

This is for exposed ink.

What you describe is a different environment. Here you have to deal with oxidation and/or acidic or alkaline reactions between the paper and the ink. Maybe you want to consider one of those archive inks.

Edited April 7, 2018 by Astron

[amberleadavis]

Charles, check out the fade tests. I recently posted a series of links.

 

As a generalization, BSB fades the fastest followed by the vintage skip inks and anything washable independent of color.

 

Black often fades much slower than blue, but most blues fade quite quickly and oranges/yellows (with a few exceptions fade first).

 

These are generalizations. One of the posts has an explanation about why fade tests will tell you information about the longevity of ink -- because it is just speeding up the process.

 

If you want your journals to outlast the paper and the cockroaches - use KTC.

[wasteland]

Any dye-based ink will suffer from interaction with the chemicals in the paper and exposure to light and atmosphere.

 

Longevity, of course, is relative. I have travel journals from 25 years ago that were written on school notebooks with what was likely Quink Permanent Blue and they're as legible as my handwriting at the time permitted. So if you're talking about the passage of a few decades, I'd say any ink produced by one of the better-known manufacturers should do.

 

If you're hoping that your journals hold up for centuries, then Platinum's carbon black or some other carbon-based ink is your friend. Then the only thing you have to worry about is that your paper won't disintegrate into dust. We owe the longevity of medieval manuscripts to the use of parchment (real parchment, made from animal hides) combined with ferrogallic or carbon ink for black and mineral vermillion for red. Of course, medieval scribes used quills not fountain pens.

 

If you're looking for fade tests of fountain pen inks exposed to light, there's some here.

[Tweel]

 

To cite myself: "Blue ink should be more resistant to UV-light... On old posters the red color is the first to go."

This is for exposed ink.

 

 

From what I've seen with inkjet printouts exposed to light, the yellow fades away first, soon followed by cyan, leaving a much more slowly fading magenta, and black. If fountain pen ink dyes are similar to inkjet dyes, magenta and black might be colors to use for longevity.

[Astronymus]

 

 

From what I've seen with inkjet printouts exposed to light, the yellow fades away first, soon followed by cyan, leaving a much more slowly fading magenta, and black. If fountain pen ink dyes are similar to inkjet dyes, magenta and black might be colors to use for longevity.

Maybe there is a filter included. Yellow is a light color anyway what might add to the effect. It may depend on if you use dye or pigmented ink. Color isn't color per se. But what I discribed is basicly the rule for offset print. You can also see this on older cars. Old, red cars' color is more often faded than other colors if the UV-protection was missed out.

 

Picture of an inkjet print. Yes, here the yellow really suffers. But it is also visible that the red suffers more than the blue tones.

[Chrissy]

I wrote with J.Herbin 1670 Rouge Hematite version 1 in the middle my TR Seven Seas Writer Journal. Just a couple of weeks later it was amazing to see that the writing was a sort of pale brown. I was flicking through and thought "what on earth was that ink?"

[white_lotus]

If you want the ink to remain on the page, then inks listed as "permanent", or "pigmented" in some form such as the carbon or nano-pigment inks, are your only choice.

 

The vast majority of inks on the market are made from dyes. These are not known for their permanence to light. However, putting them in a notebook should help. Then again, how many notebooks are produced with acid-free paper and designed for permanence?

 

For real durability, choose a Number 2 pencil.

[southpaw]

Waterman Blue/Black fades horribly. They've renamed it Mysterious Blue or something like that. Don't know if they changed formulation. Shame too, as it's a neat color and extremely well behaved.

[Torrilin]

It’s not that dyes fade or are impermanent. It’s when they’re tested for fade resistance they’ve fully reacted with the thing they’re coloring. There’s fabrics used in furnishings that have had color stay true for a couple centuries, even with heavy light exposure.

 

Dyes that haven’t reacted (like in ink!) will not necessarily be that stable.

 

And several of the best dyes for stability are entirely unsuitable for ink. The reaction process needed is multiple steps and there’s no color without all the steps. Whoops. (Also, the reaction process should reliably eat stainless steel nibs)

 

If you want to be Samuel Pepys, you don’t need the most permanent ink. You need someone to stick your diaries in a good library that doesn’t catch on fire. And then make multiple copies a century or so on.

[inkstainedruth]

For real durability, choose a Number 2 pencil.

 

And then hide all the erasers in the house....

[sorry -- couldn't resist....]

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[amberleadavis]

Any dye-based ink will suffer from interaction with the chemicals in the paper and exposure to light and atmosphere.

 

Longevity, of course, is relative. I have travel journals from 25 years ago that were written on school notebooks with what was likely Quink Permanent Blue and they're as legible as my handwriting at the time permitted. So if you're talking about the passage of a few decades, I'd say any ink produced by one of the better-known manufacturers should do.

 

If you're hoping that your journals hold up for centuries, then Platinum's carbon black or some other carbon-based ink is your friend. Then the only thing you have to worry about is that your paper won't disintegrate into dust. We owe the longevity of medieval manuscripts to the use of parchment (real parchment, made from animal hides) combined with ferrogallic or carbon ink for black and mineral vermillion for red. Of course, medieval scribes used quills not fountain pens.

 

If you're looking for fade tests of fountain pen inks exposed to light, there's some here.

 

 

If you really want to look at the tests, don't stop at the one from 2008. Here is a more comprehensive list.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/334623-list-of-fade-tests/

[Octo]

Noodler makes eternal and bulletproof inks in many colors. Go to www.noodlersink.com/noodlers-ink-properties then click on the chart to see a pdf of inks so you can choose colors with the properties you want. Use this in combination with the fade tests.

[Corona688]

It’s not that dyes fade or are impermanent. It’s when they’re tested for fade resistance they’ve fully reacted with the thing they’re coloring.

This sounds fishy to me. Attaching to the page does not prevent ultraviolet light from breaking chemical bonds.

 

Many old dyes were infamous for leaching out of textiles when washed. This is less relevant for paper writing (usually).

Edited April 9, 2018 by Corona688

[Flaxmoore]

Iron galls can be problematic in some cases. I've patient notes that are a year old written in Diamine Registrar on bargain-basement paper and treated roughly that are as good as they day they were written.

 

However, I also have journal entries written in R&K Salix from 2014 that are faded to a light pencil gray, despite being kept in a closed journal on far better paper (Black n Red).

[wasteland]

Iron galls can be problematic in some cases. I've patient notes that are a year old written in Diamine Registrar on bargain-basement paper and treated roughly that are as good as they day they were written.

 

However, I also have journal entries written in R&K Salix from 2014 that are faded to a light pencil gray, despite being kept in a closed journal on far better paper (Black n Red).

 

Salix is a weak ink even when it's freshly put down. And, yes, the ferrogallic component is so dilute that the ink seems to fade with age. I was terribly disappointed with it after reading reviews here and elsewhere and then actually obtaining a bottle. It sits unused in a drawer.

[Princeps Anglorum]

Thanks to Charles for starting this thread off - it has really given me food for thought about some of the inks I use. If we had sun here I would perhaps try my own fade test experiment but there seems little chance of that at the moment. Does anyone know how Platinum blue black fares in the fade stakes ? It is one I use when I want something reasonably permanent.

[Princeps Anglorum]

Have started to wonder how well all those official documents I wrote on with Parker green and brown inks all those years ago are holding up in the National Archive.

[Corona688]

Unless they left them up bleaching in the sunlight or soaking in water they're probably okay.

[amberleadavis]

Somewhere around here we also have the tests showing inks in closed books that faded.

 

Ah, yes, at Charles request, I went and found the links (where they should have been listed, in the Start Here thread.)

 

Changes
Inky T O D - Have You Ever Had An Ink Fade?
http://www.fountainp...ad-an-ink-fade/
Inky T O D - Have You Ever Had An Ink Change Color After It's On The Paper?
http://www.fountainp...s-on-the-paper/

Inky T O D - How Important Is Water Resistance?

http://www.fountainp...ter-resistance/