Tengwar

[Teacher Man]

Oddly enough, searching the forum for Elvish and Tengwar yields no results. Surely there must have been a discussion about this? Sure, this might not be the place to debate the actual languages of Quenya and Sindarin, but since Tengwar can be used to write English...

 

Has anyone here played around much with Tengwar calligraphy?

Do you go for orthographic or phonemic spelling?

What kind of pen do you use?

 

Questions, questions, questions...

[Stompie]

I found *A Ductus for Tengwar* by using the search facility. A topic was opened in 2014 but no discussion seems to have taken place

[PaganArcher]

It's been many a year since I last tried my hand at Tengwar. Getting the vowel placement correct always confused me so I quickly abandoned it. Perhaps it's time to try again.

[Teacher Man]

It seems to me that a broad nib makes more sense than a flexible one, but that may be a matter of taste.

[PaganArcher]

Something broad like a brush of a Safari B nib perhaps. Nothing too stubbish or crisp in my mind.

[Teacher Man]

Do you really think a brush might work?

[Teacher Man]

Lamy 1.1 (and Nemosine fine for the vowels).

 

[zslane]

I am getting into Tengwar right now and concentrating on English Mode with purely alphabetic spelling, at least to the extent that is possible with the Tengwar characters. I am not using full mode because I really like the abjad look of the tehtar, and for English Mode, the tehtar go above the succeeding consonants.

 

Because of the lack of tengwar for our letters "C" and "X", I use silmë ("S") for words like "city", quessë ("K") for words like "care", and both for words like "circus". I use double-quessë for the "CK" combination, and I use quessë with an S-curl for "X" (basically "KS"). I use all the consonant cluster tengwar whenever I can (including the nasal overbar for clusters like "NP", "NT", and "MB"), and I use thúlë for all occurrences of "TH", even for words like "that", because I am not writing phonetically, and using only thúlë for this consonant blend makes reading simpler.

 

As for vowels, I don't use long-E (i.e., a long carrier with the tehta for E above it) for words like "he"; instead I use a short carrier. The only time I use a long carrier is for "EE" (but not "EA" as in "eat") and "OO" in words. Again, this is because I want to de-emphasize any phonetic writing indicators. But this is just my personal rule; it isn't wrong to use the long carrier for words like "he" and "no". I use an underdot below final consonants for our silent E, but that's the only time I use it.

 

As for writing materials, I have been having great success with 1.5mm stub pens like the Pilot Parallel on Rhodia paper. Writing at a 45° angle produces pleasing results.

 

 

(Try to ignore the spelling errors, i.e., errors in tengwa choices here and there. I find the R-rule and all the different ways to use/write a "Y" diabolically difficult to remember for some reason.)

Edited June 18, 2018 by zslane

[PrestoTenebroso]

It seems to me that a broad nib makes more sense than a flexible one, but that may be a matter of taste.

Something broad like a brush of a Safari B nib perhaps. Nothing too stubbish or crisp in my mind.

Nah, you really want an italic nib of some kind so your vowel [diacriticals] really pop. I like diamonds better than mere "spots".

 

Oddly enough, searching the forum for Elvish and Tengwar yields no results. Surely there must have been a discussion about this? Sure, this might not be the place to debate the actual languages of Quenya and Sindarin, but since Tengwar can be used to write English...

 

Has anyone here played around much with Tengwar calligraphy?

Do you go for orthographic or phonemic spelling?

What kind of pen do you use?

 

Questions, questions, questions...

I've toyed with it, and I go for phonemic spelling because I figure, we use language to communicate, and with a phonemic spelling, if you can get the other person to SAY IT OUT LOUD, not only will the meaning elucidate itself, but you can also communicate how you said it. With phonemic spelling–to a degree–you can communicate tone, regional accent, inflection sometimes…

[zslane]

The main issue I have with phonetic spelling is that regional accents can create ambiguity in a way that alphabetic spelling manages to avoid, especially when it comes to vowel sounds.

 

For example, if I were to spell out words the way some Kentuckians pronounce them, you'd have a sentence that reads: "I went to the core," when, in fact, what they actually said was, "I went to the car." Both are valid and meaningful sentences, and so distinguishing which spelling is correct is way more dependent on context than it ought to be (at least IMO).

 

I would spell out "car" with the tengwar for K and R and the a-tehta above the R. I would not spell it with an o-tehta over the R and an e-underdot, even though that more accurately represents the sound of what was said.

Edited June 22, 2018 by zslane

[Teacher Man]

 

"As for writing materials, I have been having great success with 1.5mm stub pens like the Pilot Parallel on Rhodia paper. Writing at a 45° angle produces pleasing results."

 

 

 

I like the look of that. Very much so. But I have a thing for calligraphy which theoretically fits in normal letters and postcards, and so will never be perfectly happy with the 1.5.

Edited June 28, 2018 by Teacher Man

[zslane]

For writing smaller text, I use a 1.1mm Lamy Joy. Its thickest stroke (on good paper like Rhodia) is really only 1.0mm, which still yields an attractive variation in thickness without becoming unwieldy when characters are rendered small.

[Teacher Man]

For writing smaller text, I use a 1.1mm Lamy Joy. Its thickest stroke (on good paper like Rhodia) is really only 1.0mm, which still yields an attractive variation in thickness without becoming unwieldy when characters are rendered small.

 

As do I (see above), but the appeal of the parallel pen is undeniable... If only they made a smaller size...

[zslane]

I know, right? I would really love a 1.1mm Pilot Parallel!

[zslane]

Here's a favorite quote using the Sarati (Late Form) orthography:

 

 

"The world moves for love. It kneels before it in awe."

- Edward Walker (The Village)

Edited July 9, 2018 by zslane

[Teacher Man]

Here's a favorite quote using the Sarati (Late Form) orthography:

 

quote_in_sarati.png

 

"The world moves for love. It kneels before it in awe."

- Edward Walker (The Village)

 

Awesome!

[verdiinpink]

I once adjusted Batarde to write Belerian script of a name to be scanned, vectorised, and printed on a t-shirt as a birthday present. I would imagine it could be done for Tengwar too, but the dots are a bit tricky for broad nibs, I presume.

 

Edited July 19, 2018 by verdiinpink

[zslane]

Tehtar dots tend to look like small diamonds when drawn with a sufficiently wide stub nib at an angle, which can be quite attractive IMO.