How To Get Started With Dip Pens For Everyday Writing

[katerchen]

I know dip pens come up time to time, but for reasons unknown, neither 'dip' nor 'dip pen' returns any results in the search function. Which is weird, because I know there is a 'What Dip Pen you used today' topic, except it's not currently showing up in the recently active topic list.

 

Anyway. With that aside, I'd like for some shopping advice on how to kickstart this side addiction. On the upside it doesn't look nearly as expensive as fountain pens

 

For nibs I was thinking to start with a sampler of NOS Esterbrook nibs, but I am open to suggestions. I'm not really interested in calligraphy only normal journal / letter writing. To that end, my main goal is to settle on a relatively smooth medium/fine nib (do dip nibs even have tipping, or is it just the raw steel ?) that retains enough ink with each dip that lasts more than just a couple of words.

 

Then there's the subject of the nib holder : again, something that's not much longer and no wider than a normal pen would be ideal. Not super expensive, but a material that's nice to hold.

 

Thanks in advance.

[DipIt]

The nibs that I am accustomed to using do not have an indium tip. The inks used are often so

corrosive that nibs are considered consumable. From that point of view my idea of "relatively

smooth" and yours might be quite different. Nibs like Nikko G and such are cheap but don't hold a lot of ink. There are nibs with a reservoir sort of contraption built into them but I find

that the need to dip coincides with my need to think about the next line. If you are right

handed I would suggest an oblique holder and align the nib as described in several online

sites (IAMPETH is a good place to start).

 

Have fun!

[sidthecat]

If you really want to go crazy, get your hands on a couple of 19th century gold nibs and mount them into fountain pens. Flex beyond your wildest dreams!

[carlos.q]

  On 4/4/2018 at 7:31 PM, katerchen said:

I'm not really interested in calligraphy only normal journal / letter writing. To that end, my main goal is to settle on a relatively smooth medium/fine nib (do dip nibs even have tipping, or is it just the raw steel ?) that retains enough ink with each dip that lasts more than just a couple of words.

For your stated purpose you should look into vintage Esterbrook "dip-less" pens or modern Ranga dip pens. Both of these pens use interchangeable nibs with feeds so they will retain more ink than regular dip pens. You also use regular fountain pen ink with these pens.

Edited April 4, 2018 by carlos.q

[katerchen]

Well, I wanted to go for the old-timey experience and from what I read, with dip-less pens it's almost the same as dipping a fountain pen, just never actually filling it.

 

Anyway ... for starters I ordered some Esterbrook dip nibs and the shortest Tachikawa pen holder. We'll see how it goes

 

-k

[UDog]

  On 4/5/2018 at 12:35 AM, katerchen said:

Well, I wanted to go for the old-timey experience and from what I read, with dip-less pens it's almost the same as dipping a fountain pen, just never actually filling it.

 

Anyway ... for starters I ordered some Esterbrook dip nibs and the shortest Tachikawa pen holder. We'll see how it goes

 

-k

 

I put a Knox nib in that holder and it writes wonderfully, smooth as glare ice.

[dcwaites]

Put this search string into google : dip pen nib start begin site:fountainpennetwork.com

 

Some of the results

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/192191-how-to-start-with-dip-pens/

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/297047-newbie-dip-pen-nib-question/page-2

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/120926-using-my-new-dip-nibs/

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/228700-dip-pens-for-beginners/

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/333098-non-caligraphy-dip-nibs/

[pajaro]

I have some of these nibs and a couple of pens to use them in. I thought it would be entertaining to write in the eighteenth century mode. Then I remembered elementary school with dip pens, the nuns trying to make me write right handed instead of left handed, but I opened a bottle of ink and started to use the dip pen with a weird looking Esterbrook nib. Then I thought that it would really be helpful if the pen had a feed, so that I wouldn't have to dip the pen so often. I remember seeing dip pens with feeds back in the 1950s.

[katerchen]

Well, once all the shipments come in, it will be glorious. I should post a picture of the full haul. Unfortunately the first piece is still a couple of days away.

 

At least I still spent much less than just one of my M1000's

 

Which is nice.

 

-k

[ac12]

Now that tax season is over . . .

 

Nibs. G nibs; Nikko, Tachikawa or Zebra

The G nibs are chrome plated, so they last longer.

 

Holder: straight or oblique. I prefer oblique.

Here are some obliques:

https://www.paperinkarts.com/nsearch.html?query=oblique+pen+holder&x=0&y=0&vwcatalog=yhst-141105795965626&.autodone=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.paperinkarts.com%2F

 

This guy has some really nice straight dip pen holders. And the prices are reasonable.

https://www.dippens.net/

 

Ink

I use Higgins Eternal, but I also use any of my fountain pen inks.

 

Cleaning

Clean the nib with alcohol before using. The alcohol cleans off the manufacturing oils.

Make sure to CLEAN the nib after every writing session.

With some inks, you may need to clean it every so many dips, as the dried ink upsets the writing.

[AAAndrew]

I think I've heard of those dip pen things.

 

Everyday writing dip pens are my preferred way to write letters, pay bills, write checks, just doodle around, and lots more.

 

I'm curious which pens you get, and what your experience is.

 

I have a few tips for getting started. I got tired of writing it all down in a bunch of threads, so I've compiled it on my site. https://thesteelpen.com/

 

Basic Steel Pen Anatomy. know what you're talking about.

Basic Supplies: an intro

Choosing the right pen (nib): Finding the kind of nib you need for what you want to do

Holding your pen: first things first, you need a holder for your nib

Paper and Ink: second things second, without ink and paper, your pen and holder are just a tiny spear

Pen Prep and Bits and Pieces: Before you dip your nib, you've got to prep it. And other stuff

 

And if you can read all of that without falling asleep, and you need something at night to put you to bed, then try the history parts of my site.

 

So, your specific questions. Some of them are answered in the links above. I'll see what else I can say.

 

  Quote

 

For nibs I was thinking to start with a sampler of NOS Esterbrook nibs, but I am open to suggestions. I'm not really interested in calligraphy only normal journal / letter writing. To that end, my main goal is to settle on a relatively smooth medium/fine nib (do dip nibs even have tipping, or is it just the raw steel ?) that retains enough ink with each dip that lasts more than just a couple of words.

Then there's the subject of the nib holder : again, something that's not much longer and no wider than a normal pen would be ideal. Not super expensive, but a material that's nice to hold.

 

Esterbrook nibs are a great way to start. For everyday writing, the 048 Falcon was top dog in the Esterbrook line for 70 years. I am also fond of any of their school pens. Look for something with "School" in it. School pens were made to be less scratchy, more durable and not as flexible as "grown up" pens. Some are explicitly "firm" and others "flexible". Don't let "firm" throw you off. A "firm" dip pen is at least as flexible as a Namiki Falcon fountain pen.

 

I also like their "Vertical" and "Slant" pens, like their 751 Vertical, or Modified Slant. The Vertical and Slant in these names refers to different styles of penmanship which were taught in the late 19th-century. They pen styles were popular enough they kept them for many decades after the penmanship fads faded.

 

The 14 Bank Pen is fun, and long. And don't forget the stubs! The 239 Chancellor is one of my all-time favorites. The 442 Jackson stub is a stub version of the falcon, and one of their most popular for 50 years. The 314 Relief is another good stub that's easy to write with. And being made of copper-zinc alloy, it doesn't rust like the steel pens.

 

The 531 Flyer is less common but fun to write with. And some people like the very common 788 spoon pen. It was one of the top sellers and holds a lot of ink. I'm not a fan of the big spoon pens myself, and I can't tell you why, but an awful lot of people did like them, so don't let me discourage you from trying them out.

 

And Esterbrook was not the only maker of good pens. Eagle made some good pens, as did Hunt. I like the Eagle E840 Modern Writer and the Tutor. Hunt's #5 Droop Point and #68 Sixty-Eight are good everyday writers. Hunt also made some good stubs.

 

Spencerian had good pens made for them by Perry of England, but because a few of the Spencerian pens are "dream pens" for calligraphers, almost all Spencerians tend get priced beyond their merits in the online auctions.

 

I have a particular fondness for Turner & Harrison pens. Their quality was always top-notch. Nothing fancy, no bells and whistles. They even rarely named their pens, just gave them numbers, but they put all of their energy into quality of production. Pretty much any T&H pen you find will be good and almost certainly an everyday writer. They didn't make too much fancy pens for decorative writing, though the 145 is as good as Esterbrook's 128 anyday of the week. Just don't tell anyone, or else they'll be hard to get. They're rare enough as it is.

 

Here's an example of a Turner & Harrison 70. This is what an everyday writer writes like. The flex is not very big, and the hairlines are more medium than fine (compared to extra fine dip pens), but it's smooth, durable and fun to write with.

 

 

 

As for holders, you don't need anything fancy. I would get a few different kinds from one of the online retailers and see what you like. I like the idea of the cork ends, but I've not found one that really feels write. I tend to like the very simple wooden ones, and I've become particularly fond of the ugly green or black Palmer Method ones that come up for sale on eBay periodically. They're wavy, but seem to fit my hand well and feel comfortable.

 

Holders are something you'll have to experiment with to see what feels good. And your taste may change over time. Fortunately, they're not expensive, unless you get the exotic ones, so you can afford to get several different ones and try them out. Check out my holder page on my site.

 

And most of all, have fun. With a modest outlay (compared to fountain pens) you can have a very wide range of writing experiences at your fingertips.

 

Cheers!

Andrew

Edited April 21, 2018 by AAAndrew

[mabuckit]

In my limited experience dip pens put down more ink than fountain pens so make sure to use good paper. And for the love of all that is good do not think the ink won't spill if it's not well balanced.

[dcwaites]

My favourite pens are the above-mentioned Esterbrook and Eagle Falcon pens, as well as the Brandauer Scribbler. This last is ideal for my scribbling writing as it has a very round tip, and is very robust, yet writes with a nice style.

 

If you really want to know what school writing used to be like, get one, or a dozen, of M. Myers & Son Post Office pens. These are school/clerical style nibs that were supplied to Australian schools (and probably Post Offices for the use of customers), and a 1/4 inch wooden pen holder. They were made to match the ferrule on the end that held the pen. I would not recommend starting off with these, as they are a real penance to learn to use properly. But, as a re-creation of old school practice, they are ideal.

 

 

Top - The Good - Brandauer Scribbler in modern straight dip pen holder

Bottom - The Bad - Post Office pen in 1/4" wooden pen holder, as issued to schools

Missing - The Ugly - My handwriting with the above Post Office pen and wooden holder ...

[dcwaites]

  On 4/21/2018 at 11:14 PM, mabuckit said:

In my limited experience dip pens put down more ink than fountain pens so make sure to use good paper. And for the love of all that is good do not think the ink won't spill if it's not well balanced.

 

Yes, most modern FP inks are too wet for most simple dip pens, although the Brandauer Scribbler I mentioned can handle most of them.

Go for simpler, old-style inks, like Sheaffer Scrip Black and Blue, Parker Quink Black, Pelikan 4001 Brilliant Black and Royal Blue.

As well, Noodler's Black performs surprisingly well, but most of their other inks are too wet.

Older style IG inks, like Diamine Registrar's also work well.

[Mech-for-i]

To be very frank, IMHO dip pen is just not for everyday writing, it was the pen of choice way back simply because that is the only technically possible mean of writing in a reliable fashion. Come today neither our life style, and living need, nor the environment exposed to the pen favor dip pen at all. How are you suppose to jot down a note say when out with a friend sitting at a cafe and he mention another friend getting married and you want to had that info put down in ink so you could be sure not to forget it. IS all the nice dip pen nib really that great on the typical 80lb. The list of issue goes on and on .....

 

Not to mention the ink issue already discussed ..

 

Well let me put it this way, using a dip pen for daily desk work is OK , it then sit in a controlled ( and that can be prepared ) environment where all the limitation and technical demand of the dip pen can be deal with. For everyday writing .. sorry a fountain pen or even a Bic Cristal is a better one

[dcwaites]

  On 4/22/2018 at 2:34 AM, Mech-for-i said:

To be very frank, IMHO dip pen is just not for everyday writing, it was the pen of choice way back simply because that is the only technically possible mean of writing in a reliable fashion. Come today neither our life style, and living need, nor the environment exposed to the pen favor dip pen at all. How are you suppose to jot down a note say when out with a friend sitting at a cafe and he mention another friend getting married and you want to had that info put down in ink so you could be sure not to forget it. IS all the nice dip pen nib really that great on the typical 80lb. The list of issue goes on and on .....

 

Not to mention the ink issue already discussed ..

 

Well let me put it this way, using a dip pen for daily desk work is OK , it then sit in a controlled ( and that can be prepared ) environment where all the limitation and technical demand of the dip pen can be deal with. For everyday writing .. sorry a fountain pen or even a Bic Cristal is a better one

 

There are two solutions to your dilemma --

1. carry a pencil with your notebook in your coat pocket for those moments you need to jot down the odd bon mot
2. the solution Ptolemy (played by Anthony Hopkins in the film Alexander) used -- have a slave carry a portable desk, parchment, quill and ink pot behind you at all times

The fountain pen was designed to solve a particular problem - that of carrying a pen with you at all times. That's why they are almost universally short and stubby - to fit in to a coat or shirt pocket. A proper desk pen, whether it is a dip pen or fountain pen, has a long tail that balances the nib end, and makes writing much more pleasurable. I have desk pens, both dip and fountain, on my desks at work and home.

 

BTW, do a google search for "antique portable writing kit" to see how the Victorians coped with writing while travelling.

[AAAndrew]

Dcwaites describes how portable writing was handled in the time of dip pens. Quick notes, use a pencil. For real writing, ie anything more than a note, requires one to sit, think, and compose. For that, you can sit at your writing desk, or bring a traveling writing kit. It doesn’t take much: paper, small ink pot, and a pen. There are plenty of traveling pens that telescope into small sizes, a jumbo dinky dip works well, and then paper.

 

Nowadays I don’t use a pencil for short jotting or meeting notes, I use my fountain pens. But for letters, or other writing I use dip pens. They lend themselves very well for writing things that require a slower pace.

 

Sure, they’re not for everyone. Some people dont like the slower pace required, the greater care. And that’s ok. If they were too popular then they would be too expensive.