Modern Pens With Ebonite Feeds

[Maurizio]

A discussion here about metal feeds and the general superiority of ebonite feeds got me wondering how many modern currently produced pens have ebonite feeds?

There are the Noodlers pens which, as much as I love and buy lots of Noodlers ink, are problematic writers at best and require tinkering to get writing well. There is an Aurora pen the name of which I dont know but someone here will, and I believe the Namiki Emperor. Are there any more?

Can we compile a list of modern pens which come with an ebonite feed, or companies which offer an ebonite feed as an option?

Edited April 4, 2018 by Maurizio

[hari317]

The following have ebonite feeders.

Bock no 8

Jowo no 8

Jowo no 6 optional

Aurora optima, talentum, 88 and editions based on these.

Omas and their latest avatars.

 

Namiki emperors and no 50s have urushi coated plastic feeders.

Edited April 4, 2018 by hari317

[gerigo]

Wow which pen uses metal feeds? I have never seen this before!!!

[zaddick]

Hari covered it. Since most companies use Bock or Jowo nibs the company list can be somewhat long, but most do not use the #8 nibs.

 

Though not in current production, MB pens up through the 1980s often had ebonite feeds. I mention them as they are easy to find in good condition.

[sirgilbert357]

Wow which pen uses metal feeds? I have never seen this before!!!

 

 

None. The other thread mentioned was a "what if" thought exercise. I don't know of anyone ever trying to make a metal feed and apparently it wouldn't work anyway, so yeah...

[two2tone]

I believe some Indian pens (e.g. Ranga) have ebonite feeds as well as some bodies and caps being made entirely from ebonite.

[mhguda]

Virtually all my Indian pens - from Airmail/Wality through Ranga, Asa, Gama, Kim... you name it. They mostly have ebonite feeds. Plastic seems to be the exception.

[Maurizio]

The following have ebonite feeders.

Bock no 8

Jowo no 8

Jowo no 6 optional

Aurora optima, talentum, 88 and editions based on these.

Omas and their latest avatars.

 

Namiki emperors and no 50s have urushi coated plastic feeders.

 

 

Thanks for the comprehensive answer Hari. I'm saving this post for future reference.

I'm obviously wrong, but I thought I had recently read about a high-end Pilot or Namiki pen which had an ebonite feed.

Edited April 4, 2018 by Maurizio

[sansenri]

you must have read my mind, I was about to start this thread today if you had not done so just yesterday!

 

I have been asking myself the same question in the last few days...

 

I seem to like the flow of pens with ebonite feeds more than that of pens with plastic feeds.

There are of course exceptions of some pens with plastic feed that have a satisfying flow, but more often I am under the impression that ink flow from plastic feeds is more restrained than I like.

I have read about how modern plastic feeds are now designed with specific surface properties to favour ink flow by capillary action, but the effect of ebonite seems different to me.

Have you ever noticed how long it takes to wash an ebonite feed? Longer than plastic nib/feed/collar groups.

Does that have something to do with the fact that ebonite feeds get "soaked" with ink?

is that the reason for a more steady flow?

that's my impression.

 

Besides the mentioned Omas, Aurora and the eyedropper Ranga (the CC Ranga use normal bock/Jowo nib grops with plastic feeds) if I recall also some of the higher end Montegrappa use ebonite.

 

If we are not limited to modern pens, but also we are not going back so far to when all pens had ebonite feeds... which more recent pens were still manufactured with ebonite feeds?

For example as Zaddick said, some still reasonably recent/modern Montblancs had ebonite feeds.

 

[Maurizio]

Yes samseri. I think it may have something to do with the fact that ebonite feeds do get soaked with ink.

 

I wish more pen makers would use them.

 

Can someone else weigh in here?

 

Is it more than our subjective impression? Is there something about the physical properties of an ebonite feed which makes it better for delivering ink to the nib?

[hmj]

Wancher Dream Pen

[zaddick]

I see two advantages to ebonite feeds. 1. You can modify the channels more easily. 2. You can heat set the feed to the nib for better flow. Otherwise plastic is just fine.

[jekostas]

Strictly from an ink flow perspective, ebonite may be a better material than plastic. However, since ebonite can't be molded, it's much more difficult and costly to manufacture to the high degree of consistency required for mass production. It's also difficult to CNC because ebonite is heat sensitive and warps easily. Yes, Noodler's uses ebonite feeds but everyone who brings that up conveniently neglects to mention that Noodler's pens are made in India and labour costs are considerably lower there than virtually anywhere else pens are manufactured, perhaps even including China.

 

I think there's great nostalgia for vintage pens, many of which use ebonite feeds, but that doesn't make it superior when all factors are considered.

Edited April 6, 2018 by jekostas

[Mech-for-i]

Properly prepared modern day thermoplastic perform just as well or in some case even better than ebonite. IMHO ebonite for feed or pen bodies are more about nostalgia and perceived luxury value than real engineering reasons

[Maurizio]

I respect everyones options here and, in a matter of opinion, we cant move beyond subjective impressions.

 

But, I would really like to hear from someone who may have more than an opinion or subjective impression. Any science or engineering people with some hard data on this question? Im curious to know whether my subjective impression that ebonite feeds work better because the feed get soaked with ink is true or not.

Edited April 6, 2018 by Maurizio

[sansenri]

The particular question on ebonite vs plastic feeds has obviusly been raised before

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/218606-ebonite-feed-vs-plastic-feed/

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/213929-ebonite-feed/

 

however the argument supporting plastic is that it's more economic (that does not means it works bettter) it's more reproducible (ok granted, but that is a matter that concerns the average quality) and that with todays modern manufacturing techniques, the surface can be made similar to ebonite (porous like), thus helping to achieve the correct surface tension to allow capillary action of the feed.

 

Still that does not convince me against a state of the art ebonite feed (despite costly vs plastic) - certainly if you get a bad ebonite feed you are starting with the wrong foot - , which is chosen specifically (so no reproducibility issue, just take the best), and the fact that (I am convinced - but still subjective) getting soaked it ensures better flow (better capillary action) and especially ready start.

 

No doubt a very well designed plastic feed can still work well (think modern pelikan).

Here is an intreresting read on plastic feeds

https://fountainpendesign.wordpress.com/feed-supply-ink-function-foutain-pen/feeds-made-of-plastic/

which however still does not fully convince me vs ebonite...

[sansenri]

more interesting discussion also here

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/247837-question-comparison-of-mb-ebonite-and-plastic-feeds/

 

and here is some of the physics behing wetting surfaces

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wetting

Edited April 6, 2018 by sansenri

[jekostas]

No doubt a very well designed plastic feed can still work well (think modern pelikan).

Here is an intreresting read on plastic feeds

https://fountainpendesign.wordpress.com/feed-supply-ink-function-foutain-pen/feeds-made-of-plastic/

which however still does not fully convince me vs ebonite...

 

If an in-depth report from a materials engineer who actually went through the process of replacing ebonite feeds with plastic won't convince you, nothing will. You're being irrational.

[Maurizio]

Amadeus treatise-like essay seems to definitively answer the question that plastic feeds CAN be as good as ebonite and that it is not the rubber itself but the way its surface is prepared which helps the capillary action and that plastics can be treated to work just as well. I am convinced.

 

Nonetheless, even assuming that this is so, it does seem to me subjectively that the plastic feeds I have seen in 95% of the pens I have had seem to have plastics feeds which are smoother than the few ebonite feeds I have experienced. So, if the knowledge is there why arent plastic feeds as rough as the traditional rubber ones? I have read that modern feeds are treated with some kind of chemical and, if this is true, it seems that the knowledge about good capillary action coming from rougher feeds is being ignored. It would seem to me that a chemical treatment may wear off overs years whereas the physical characteristics of a feed would remain for the life of the pen. Subjectively to my eyes, every modern plastic feed I have seen has seemed smoother and shinier than every (admittedly a small sample) ebonite feed I have seen, which has been primarily in Noodlers pens and in my Aurora Talentum ( which I did not know had an ebonite feed ).

 

Your thoughts?

Edited April 6, 2018 by Maurizio

[Bo Bo Olson]

One of these days when my Lamy Joy....a Safari with a skinny long tail, is empty, I'll remove the nib and look at the top of the nib..........but the bottom of that and my 1990 Persona (1990 in it don't have the tiny bump on the clip later models had to keep it from rolling off the desk........are all '20's flat with no buffer to be seen. '20 and before and were made to deliver ink faster for I suppose were more flexible nibs needing a faster flow. In the '30's more stiffer nibs came in needing a slower ink flow and buffering came on big time.

I don't know what sort of buffering the top of those two Lamy feed has...if any.......but the chemical roughening of plastic does the trick.

 

After reading, https://fountainpend...ade-of-plastic/, and the rest....I came away with a much better feeling about my Lamy pens.

 

I'm much more interested in the German '50-70 semi-flex pens and their ebonite feeds than modern stiffer nibs..

How ever I am pleasantly (reading the linked threads) surprised that both Bock and JoWo feeds are ebonite.

Edited April 6, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson