Can You Make A Feeder Out Of Metal?

[dipper]

Wow!

 

If those feeds were larger, and easier to make, at say 50mm diameter they would be beautiful examples of precision machining.

 

But being so much smaller, at only 9mm diameter, they are extraordinary skillful work.

 

Can we see the ink feed channel(s) on the top of one of you feeds?

(I can see a remarkably narrow channel cut in the underside of your new brass feed.)

[doudouluo]

4 hours ago, dipper said:

Wow!

 

If those feeds were larger, and easier to make, at say 50mm diameter they would be beautiful examples of precision machining.

 

But being so much smaller, at only 9mm diameter, they are extraordinary skillful work.

 

Can we see the ink feed channel(s) on the top of one of you feeds?

(I can see a remarkably narrow channel cut in the underside of your new brass feed.)

hi!

 

I have never made a feed with a diameter of 50mm, but at the beginning, in order o explore the manufacturing process and technology, I made a model of a feed with a diameter of 20mm，which is the leftmost one in the picture.

These are my phased work of gradual iteration with Pei, peek, brass, ebonite, titanium alloy .

 

As for the ink feed channel, due to the lack of detailed hydrophilic data and calculation methods of materials, I can only actually try. This picture is an ink channel with widths of 0.5, 0.3 and 0.2mm respectively 

 

Limited by the performance of my milling machine and lathe ,at the same time, these ink channels are very narrow, so processing requires patience, and the success rate is not high. You can see that the ink channel of the ebonite feed(the black one) has collapsed, and the titanium alloy pen tongue on the far right is actually a failed work. During machining, the 0.2mm saw blade milling cutter broke and got stuck in the ink channel.Relatively speaking, brass is the best machined, and titanium alloy is the most difficult to machine. On average, a titanium alloy pen tongue takes 3 hours and 2 tungsten steel saw blade milling cutters.

 

Now the design of the feed is basically finalized. This is a 3D model.

 

 

Thanks for your  encouragement and attention。

 

[dipper]

8 hours ago, doudouluo said:

You can see that the ink channel of the ebonite feed(the black one) has collapsed

Some factors that combine to create problems....

 

Ebonite softens with increasing temperature.

Ebonite is a poor conductor of heat.

Cutting friction, inside a narrow milled slot, generates heat deep down inside the material - where any flow of coolant cutting fluid is limited.

Soft, hot, ebonite cutting chips are er... Hot Rubber... high friction! Very good for the grippy tyres of racing cars (though bits of hot rubber are shed during racing, and are thrown off the tyres onto the sides of the race track). Not so good if you have such hot sticky stuff down inside a 0.3mm slot.

 

Most of those factors are not the case for metals.

[Pen Engineer]

21 hours ago, doudouluo said:

hi!

 

I have never made a feed with a diameter of 50mm, but at the beginning, in order o explore the manufacturing process and technology, I made a model of a feed with a diameter of 20mm，which is the leftmost one in the picture.

These are my phased work of gradual iteration with Pei, peek, brass, ebonite, titanium alloy .

 

As for the ink feed channel, due to the lack of detailed hydrophilic data and calculation methods of materials, I can only actually try. This picture is an ink channel with widths of 0.5, 0.3 and 0.2mm respectively 

 

Limited by the performance of my milling machine and lathe ,at the same time, these ink channels are very narrow, so processing requires patience, and the success rate is not high. You can see that the ink channel of the ebonite feed(the black one) has collapsed, and the titanium alloy pen tongue on the far right is actually a failed work. During machining, the 0.2mm saw blade milling cutter broke and got stuck in the ink channel.Relatively speaking, brass is the best machined, and titanium alloy is the most difficult to machine. On average, a titanium alloy pen tongue takes 3 hours and 2 tungsten steel saw blade milling cutters.

 

Now the design of the feed is basically finalized. This is a 3D model.

 

 

Thanks for your  encouragement and attention。

 

First: a big congratulation.  

 

We used to NC machine tiny parts for surgical instruments from a titanium alloy.  The machinists loved it because it was much easier than SS.  That was in 1986.  I wish my memory would be so good that I could remember what alloy it was.  

 

The ink canal of my ABS feed was 0.3mm wide.  I experimented with staggered with, whereby the top 1.5 - 2mm was 0.6mm wide and only the last 1.5mm was 0.3mm.  That had several advantages, but was considered too elaborative by the manufacturing team.

 

For experimenting, cut some slits of different width and depth in a flat piece of ABS, Ebonite and your choice of metals.  Clean any lubricant with polyethylene glycol and let it evaporate.  Spread some ink on a clean glass plate (the thickness of the ink puddle is constant), hold the pieces with one end and sit it on the glass.  The ink will rise and give you an indication about the capillary force.  and a criterion for selecting material and dimensions.

 

I would stay away from brass.

[doudouluo]

On 7/11/2022 at 11:18 AM, Pen Engineer said:

First: a big congratulation.  

 

We used to NC machine tiny parts for surgical instruments from a titanium alloy.  The machinists loved it because it was much easier than SS.  That was in 1986.  I wish my memory would be so good that I could remember what alloy it was.  

 

The ink canal of my ABS feed was 0.3mm wide.  I experimented with staggered with, whereby the top 1.5 - 2mm was 0.6mm wide and only the last 1.5mm was 0.3mm.  That had several advantages, but was considered too elaborative by the manufacturing team.

 

For experimenting, cut some slits of different width and depth in a flat piece of ABS, Ebonite and your choice of metals.  Clean any lubricant with polyethylene glycol and let it evaporate.  Spread some ink on a clean glass plate (the thickness of the ink puddle is constant), hold the pieces with one end and sit it on the glass.  The ink will rise and give you an indication about the capillary force.  and a criterion for selecting material and dimensions.

 

I would stay away from brass.

Mr. Amadeus W, I want to pay high tribute to you，Fountain Pen Design website is great!

I will try the polyethylene glycol you said and the method you mentioned. After witnessing the corrosion and oxidation of brass by ink and the fragile mechanical strength, I also stayed away from brass.

Best wishes.

[doudouluo]

On 7/10/2022 at 9:53 PM, dipper said:

Some factors that combine to create problems....

 

Ebonite softens with increasing temperature.

Ebonite is a poor conductor of heat.

Cutting friction, inside a narrow milled slot, generates heat deep down inside the material - where any flow of coolant cutting fluid is limited.

Soft, hot, ebonite cutting chips are er... Hot Rubber... high friction! Very good for the grippy tyres of racing cars (though bits of hot rubber are shed during racing, and are thrown off the tyres onto the sides of the race track). Not so good if you have such hot sticky stuff down inside a 0.3mm slot.

 

Most of those factors are not the case for metals.

👍

[Arkanabar]

On 7/10/2022 at 9:53 AM, dipper said:

Some factors that combine to create problems....

 

Ebonite softens with increasing temperature.

Ebonite is a poor conductor of heat.

Cutting friction, inside a narrow milled slot, generates heat deep down inside the material - where any flow of coolant cutting fluid is limited.

Soft, hot, ebonite cutting chips are er... Hot Rubber... high friction! Very good for the grippy tyres of racing cars (though bits of hot rubber are shed during racing, and are thrown off the tyres onto the sides of the race track). Not so good if you have such hot sticky stuff down inside a 0.3mm slot.

 

Most of those factors are not the case for metals.

These are the reasons that ebonite feeds are so labor-intensive to manufacture, and injection-molded plastics are preferred by manufacturers.  Ebonite can't really be injection molded, I think it has to be extruded and then machined.

[Le Vieux]

This feeder is brass, looks pretty well machined, measures 2.8cm by 0.6cm (length & diameter). Got it down from a vintage pen, cannot recall the make.

 

As far as to the functionality of this feeder, no idea if it works, it still sits in my spare box.

 

 

[Pen Engineer]

10 hours ago, Arkanabar said:

These are the reasons that ebonite feeds are so labor-intensive to manufacture, and injection-molded plastics are preferred by manufacturers.  Ebonite can't really be injection molded, I think it has to be extruded and then machined.

Ebonite is a rubber and is vulcanised.  

[Pen Engineer]

9 hours ago, Le Vieux said:

This feeder is brass, looks pretty well machined, measures 2.8cm by 0.6cm (length & diameter). Got it down from a vintage pen, cannot recall the make.

 

As far as to the functionality of this feeder, no idea if it works, it still sits in my spare box.

 

 

Yes, it also looks very clean - no corrosion.  Do you know for how long this feed has been used?

[Le Vieux]

No idea for how long this has been used, sry. Not for very long probably, the pen where this came from was broken and unused/unusable for quite a while. Also, when the pen arrived in my repair shop, it was clean with no traces of ink. 

 

Hope this helps!

[Pen Engineer]

11 hours ago, Le Vieux said:

No idea for how long this has been used, sry. Not for very long probably, the pen where this came from was broken and unused/unusable for quite a while. Also, when the pen arrived in my repair shop, it was clean with no traces of ink. 

 

Hope this helps!

would you dribble a bit of ink on it and let it dry and wash it off and see if there are any marks?

[Le Vieux]

Will do, and get back to you on this. Btw, "marks" as in corrosion or oxidation, you mean?

[Le Vieux]

After some 8 hrs of contact with ink, the feeder was stained, but when washed, the ink spots went away. There is no permanent discoloration or pitting.

 

Hope this helps.

[Pen Engineer]

On 7/24/2022 at 3:58 AM, Le Vieux said:

After some 8 hrs of contact with ink, the feeder was stained, but when washed, the ink spots went away. There is no permanent discoloration or pitting.

 

Hope this helps.

>contact with ink< did you dip in into ink or "painted" the ink onto it?  

[Le Vieux]

Immersed the thing in a small container of ink. Thought this method the best.

 

Hope this helps!

[Pen Engineer]

14 hours ago, Le Vieux said:

Immersed the thing in a small container of ink. Thought this method the best.

 

Hope this helps!

it needs oxygen... like wooden mooring poles start rotting where the water level changes... or the sunken pirate ships, they last for ever.  (the mooring poles have nothing else in common with metal feeds🤠)

[Le Vieux]

I have put it in a small plastic jar with a few drops of ink on it, rolled it over so it is in contact with some of it. It is not covered by ink, just smudged in a few places. Lots of oxygen too. 

[Pen Engineer]

15 hours ago, Le Vieux said:

I have put it in a small plastic jar with a few drops of ink on it, rolled it over so it is in contact with some of it. It is not covered by ink, just smudged in a few places. Lots of oxygen too. 

Sensational! 😎 a bit of sunlight and let's see what the cat brings in 🐈 (that's a cat)

[Le Vieux]

Took it out today and gave it a very light wipe (rolling it gently in a paper towel). I would say that the old dark patches went a tad darker, but beside this, nothing. I do not see any oxidation spots other than before. 

 

Probably some other type of alloy, resembling brass but not being actually brass?

 

Hope this helps.