Replacement Of Inner Cap In First Year Safaris

[jungkind]

I assume that this question has been raised in the past, but did not have much luck in searching the forum.

 

I have two very early Safari's where the blind cap has become brittle and comes out peacemeal. I understand that this is a common problem with the very early versions.

 

Can these blind caps be replaced with newer ones? ...or has the design been changed?

 

 

[Azulado]

I have a 1985 Lamy Safari Alpin that I bought recently. After a careful cleaning that lasted a week, I have now put it back together and it writes very well.
The inner liner was torn to shreds. To replace it, I bought a new cap. It fits perfectly in the second generation Alpin, but I want to use the original cap. My intention is to take the inner cap out of the new one and adapt it to the old one. I have been studying the two inner caps to see how to make the adaptation. The new one has a sleeve on the end. I think if I cut it off, I'll be able to fit the copper piece where the screw threads in.
If I have postponed the operation, it is because I am looking for information, but I have not yet found anyone who has successfully made the adaptation.
This idea has already been tried by Chrisrap52, the American youtuber, but he didn't manage to remove the inner cap from a new cap.
Although it's been many years, I wonder if you tried to repair your old Safaris.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zqq3qetRnQ

I would like to take this opportunity to ask @Dillo, who has a lot of experience in these matters, if he can give us some guidance on this adaptation.

 

[Dillo]

Generally speaking, I have sent these to Lamy Germany and they've fixed them and sent them back to me. This problem is common with inner caps from this era. Copper has poor corrosion resistance to ink. I recommend 316L stainless if you are going to put anything inside the cap that may come in contact with ink.

[bonnie-scott]

Hmmm, initial answer is it's complicated.  😂

 

The first generation models had a brass cap with threaded section that screwed into a brass insert that held the cap in place. The early caps where that white plastic which disintegrated.  The next model appears to have the same threaded brass cap and brass insert but the white plastic has been replaced with a black  (sort of rubber) insert.  The biggest challenge I have found is securing the inner brass insert so you can unscrew the cap.  And time and cession means it really doesn't want to come apart.  I thought the cap design then changed to the plastic cap which used through the insert,  But I recently discovered that the early plastic cap still has a threaded section that screws into the same brass inner, and you have the same problem with stopping the brass inner from rotating the you try and unscrew them.  The video in the earlier post of the 2021 savannah appears to have a  different inner cap.

 

I have replaced clips on models a few years old using the red caps off Lamy Joys to mimic some litter editions sold in sweden.  Just for interest of it.  They had the plastic cap, the black inner liner and were just a push fit through so the correct diameter rod was all you needed to release the cap.  getting it to set properly after swapping clips was more problematic.

 

So  I think a pen from a few years ago that has the push fitting and the black inner should fit the original Brass screw through fitting,  but I'm loath to destroy a serviceable cap to try it.  I have been waiting for a  parts pen to appear for a cheap price to haves the bits and have a play.  So far I'm still waiting.  I did destry a chewed up al-star cap recently to discoveries secrets, thinking it would have the same internal cap, but the inner cap is a  different design to the Safari which given the logical sensible approach to parts commonality by Lamy did surprise me.

 

If anyone has any tips to stop the inner brass insert from spinning wen trying to unscrew the threaded  cap (brass or plastic) Please share :-)

 

[Azulado]

12 hours ago, bonnie-scott said:

If anyone has any tips to stop the inner brass insert from spinning wen trying to unscrew the threaded  cap (brass or plastic) Please share 🙂

I don't know if I understood you correctly. The screw on my Safari Alpin came out without any problem. It may have been because the copper piece was press-fitted into the hole that connects the liner cap hole to the finial. I remember having to push hard to get the copper piece out of the cap.
I suggest that you press with a chopstick or a fine pencil with an eraser on the tip on the part of the brass piece that is on the side of the liner cap.

I bought the replacement cap for about $15 including shipping. If they sold the liner cap as a replacement it wouldn't be much cheaper, so don't be afraid to disassemble a new cap to use the liner cap.

The Lamy Joy calligraphy set comes with two liner caps, which act as plugs for the sections you may have inked, so that they can be interchanged with the section screwed to the barrel.
These liner caps are the ones from the first three generations, but they don't have a hole for the copper piece to go through, you have to do it yourself. I have resisted using one of these liner caps because it would leave the calligraphy set incomplete.

https://tecnos.com.co/product/set-lamy-joy-011/

Another option is to use a 3D printer.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4837919

About the option to send the cap to Lamy, I'm afraid that only works in Germany.

[Astronymus]

The threads might be corroded. My old Safari from the 80s can't be disassembled. My guess is screw and insert got backed together over time. Neither force nor heat or chemical do help if you don't want to destroy the cap in the process. There is a slight chance to get it going with creeping oil. But I'm not sure what that will do to the rest of the pen. 😉

[Azulado]

1 hour ago, Astronymus said:

The threads might be corroded. My old Safari from the 80s can't be disassembled. My guess is screw and insert got backed together over time. Neither force nor heat or chemical do help if you don't want to destroy the cap in the process. There is a slight chance to get it going with creeping oil. But I'm not sure what that will do to the rest of the pen.

I guess I was very lucky, the screw on my 1985 Safari Alpin came out very easily despite there being dried ink in the area. In any case, the copper piece was very well fixed in the hole that connects the finial to the rest of the cap. I had to push hard to get it out. Maybe that made it easier to unscrew.
You could try pinning the side of the copper piece that acts as the base of the liner cap, its diameter is about the diameter of the end of a long Pelikan cartridge, approximately 6.55 mm. It may not have a clutch effect and you may have to resort to a metal rod. 

But first it will be necessary to try to clean the thread and the screw. Water is not enough. Ammonia at 7% (I think it is possible to reach 10%) can be effective. Otherwise, it will be necessary to pass to a more energetic product. A solution of sodium percarbonate and baking soda worked for me. These are the ingredients in a laundry bleach product. It was the only thing that removed the petrified residue on the feed. It looks like it just came out of the factory. I had previously tried ammonia, WD-40, baking soda with lemon (very effective for dissolving ink that is not petrified). The product is not aggressive, it is marketed by a brand that specializes in environmentally friendly cleaning products. I know that something similar is used to remove rust from old car engines. 

What I didn't manage to do was separate the nib from the feed, they look welded. I didn't mind because I am certain that the feed channels are clean. The pen (broad nib) writes beautifully and has an abundant flow. 

[Azulado]

I have just successfully completed the adaptation of a liner cap from the current Safari to the cap of a 1985 Safari Alpin.
The operation has a certain level of complexity. First, you have to try to disassemble the liner cap from a fourth generation cap. I did it with a Japanese chopstick. Ideally, I would like to pop the screw out and try to remove it with my fingers, but it's complicated. In any case, try not to deform the liner cap.
The next step is to cut the protrusion of the current liner cap. The base is not completely flat, I advise to sand it. Then, we will see that the diameter of the hole is small and does not fit the brass bushing where the screw is screwed. It is necessary to enlarge it. I rolled some sandpaper on a paintbrush. I recommend a more sophisticated tool. I think that in the original, the bushing fits loosely in the liner cap. I pushed it in with the help of another person, as the bushing needs to be centered. That's why I think it's better if the hole is larger than the base of the brass bushing.

Finally, we will have to assemble the cover on the cap and tighten the screw. This is also a delicate operation if we take into account that the material may be aged. When tightening, a crack appeared, but at least it made the piece split and the cap is absolutely functional.

I warn that all operations are complicated and it is necessary to work with maximum concentration.

The closure of the cap is firm and satisfactory. I note that in earlier generations, the section went in deeper. I found it to be shallower, with the O-ring at the same height as the cap lip.

 

 

[balique]

I have two Lamy pens that are almost identical. Basically Safaris, they are the elongated version, with the broad nib. Not a big fan of Safari pens, I really don't like the nibs. However, I was using these pens for a particular reason because they were the only pens with broad nibs in my collection. They have both started leaking ferociously. I cleaned both of them and reinked them (using Caran d'Ache Vibrant Green ink), and by the time I re-opened them to use them both of them had ink even up the grip. So, as usual, as soon as I picked them up, I had green ink on my fingers.

So... my question is, is there any way to fix these pens? I've contacted the Lamy rep in the US, but he wants me to send them to him, get an "evaluation" and then pay for repairs. Not unreasonable, but I don't think these pens are worth that investment. I would however be willing to put some time into them. Most importantly, I am NOT experienced at repairing or disassembling fountain pens. But with guidance I would be willing to try. Thanks for any suggestions.

[Azulado]

13 hours ago, balique said:

 Most importantly, I am NOT experienced at repairing or disassembling fountain pens. But with guidance I would be willing to try. Thanks for any suggestions.

Well, let's go step by step. But first of all, I will tell you that I have two wide nibs of this type, the ones without the engraved logo, and they are very nice. They have some feedback, but they glide very well. Maybe you should also adjust the nibs or find an ink that works well with them.
The first thing you should do to detect the fault is to find out where the air is coming in. Starting with the simplest thing, check that the cartridge or converter mouths do not have a crack.
If they are OK, check that the nipple (where the cartridge fits) does not have a crack. If there is a crack, it is almost impossible to restore the part, only a very qualified specialist could do it because the size of the nipple is minimal.
The next step is to check that the lip of the section is OK. Use a magnifying glass to verify that there are no cracks in that area.
If everything is fine up to that point, the feeder will need to be removed. It is an operation that has some difficulty, you usually have to use a lot of force to remove it. Try to remove the nib first. Then use a rubber strip. On Youtube you have many tutorials on how to disassemble the feed of the Safari.

 It would be interesting to know what generation your Safari is. During the first few years, there were three changes in the design of the feed and there are some parts that vary significantly. Use this thread to identify them.

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/90367-lamy-safari/

If you have patience, I believe you can get your Safaris repaired.

If you can send pictures, they might be helpful in identifying the problem.

 

[balique]

Thanks Azulado for your response. I did click on the link you provided -- Haywoody's description of the four generations of Safari pens. Wow. As a total novice in fountain pen DIY, I was blown away by how complicated they are, as is obvious in his "autopsy" pictures.

I may have a look at some YouTube videos to check out the difficulty of disassembly, but I'm thinking that I probably don't have the energy to develop the skills necessary to do repairs. And as much as I really hate the "throwaway" mentality so prevalent in our modern world, as inexpensive pens (that I'm not really that crazy about) they are just not worth the cost of sending them out for repairs.

But it's great to have all the knowledge and resources of FPN to call on before making decisions.

[Azulado]

Regarding the staining of your fingers, after thinking about it, I realized that the shape of the Safari section is not conducive to ink staining the grip area. 
When I refurbished the Safari, when I mounted the feed, I forgot to put in the sliding insert. The pen began to drip, but did not smudge the facets of the section. 

The Safari is not as difficult as it may seem. The most complicated thing is to remove the feed. In my opinion, it should only be removed if there is no other choice. After removing it, it looks good, but it is not so firm anymore. 
I suggest you start by cleaning the feather well. Use a magnifying glass to see if that whole section lip area is clean. Take the opportunity to check that there are no cracks. A magnifying glass of at least 10x magnification is a must for any work with a pen. 
After cleaning it, load it and write at least one page. See if there is ink in the section. It should be clean. If there is ink, don't put the cap on yet. This is the time to see where the ink is coming from. 
If no ink has come out after writing, put the cap on and off several times. See if there is ink in the section. If there is, try to find out where it is coming from. 

These Safari's write very well. If you follow the instructions that I and other colleagues are giving you, you will have a different opinion of the Safari. If you manage to finish with the leak, then we can go with the nib. 

If you can send photos, we can get a more complete picture of the problem. 
Verify that the inner cap is in good condition. If it closes well, it is usually intact. But it could be that it has a crack. The ink ends up leaking. In the one I restored, there was a lot of dried ink between the screw and the inner cap. Put the cap in a glass of water. If a lot of ink comes out, that could be the problem. The caps on my Safari's only have a few tiny drops of ink after a month or two of use.

To identify the generation, you can look at the body top. The first one has nothing engraved on it. On the second one you will see “W.Germany”. From the third, only “Germany”. 

[Azulado]

The injection mold parting line could be a place that leaks ink. It happened to me on a Kaweco Perkeo. The Safari's parting line starts at the lip of the section and runs along the edge of one of the facets.