What Am I Missing About Expensive Pens?

[inkstainedruth]

Very well written.

Could your novel be about finding lasting happiness through consumerism I wonder

 

Hah! No, it's more about "fame" vs. being "ordinary". I'm describing it to people as "comic chick lit" (and occasionally as the "anti-50 Shades" book and then having to say "No it is NOT 'Christian Romance' by ANY stretch of the imagination..."). Tentative title is Transitive Coolness.

I had been trying to write this (multi-volume) fantasy romance (I have a seriously overactive imagination). Only this other story started encroaching, especially after I tracked down the CD of an album that I'd had as a cassette (!) since I was a sophomore in college. And the guy who recorded it has had sort of an interesting career (to say the least).... So I started imagining having conversations with him. He's not the guy I used to go all weak in the knees over (and might -- in spite of myself -- still do if we were to ever meet). But I can see myself going out drinking with the first guy.... And then the story just sort of snowballed. But a lot of it is still in my head because it doesn't come out the same on paper somehow....

I had a conversation with an acquaintance a while back and was trying to explain to her that I could always envision the scenes in books (as if it were a movie running in my head). Well, except for stuff by Thomas Hardy.... And it seems perfectly normal and natural to me (even though I had a first grade teacher who apparently thought it was weird that I could envision the "Billy and Blaze" stories "even though I was a girl" -- which I remember thinking was a stupid comment even then as "Well, I'm not going to envision the story from the point of view of the HORSE!"). Because I've ALWAYS done it. But the person I was telling all this to said that *her* brain works totally differently -- she can do complex math problems but can't see a story unfolding as she reads it....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[TSherbs]

.... shiny or jewelry, it is about a whole different writing experience and one I may value at 5 times the cost of an entire LAMY 2000.

There are nibs that cost that much?

[Bluey]

That said, I will throw in my observation that nibs can be a lot more specialized and customized and expensive than most recognize. Toe that extra money is not about shiny or jewelry, it is about a whole different writing experience and one I may value at 5 times the cost of an entire LAMY 2000.

Apart from specialised Sailor nibs, can you name any? And, please, don't include expensive junk Montblanc or other similar nibs. I'm referring to nibs that have a valid reason to cost that much.

Edited March 15, 2018 by Bluey

[hinky]

Value and what is expensive are both personal evaluations. This concept of a plateau may hold for many but not all. For me, personal experience speaks above the opinion of others who have "Internet-based" experiences.

 

There is no best, no right, and no answer other than the one you find for yourself.

 

That said, I will throw in my observation that nibs can be a lot more specialized and customized and expensive than most recognize. Toe that extra money is not about shiny or jewelry, it is about a whole different writing experience and one I may value at 5 times the cost of an entire LAMY 2000.

I agree 😊 There are so many factors that contribute to how one appreciates a pen (or nib). You really have to try something yourself (whether a pen/nib grind) to know if it's something for you or not. Someone's writing experience is, as people have said, a very personal thing, and what one might find pleasurable might not be the same for another.

 

Internet-based experience is a good way to narrow things down though (reviews and stuff). I mean, if I could, I'd like to try any and every pen that strikes my fancy...I just wish I had the money 😅 (and let's not get started with inks...that's a whole different Pandora's box we shouldn't open 😂)

[Amory]

 

Hah! No, it's more about "fame" vs. being "ordinary". I'm describing it to people as "comic chick lit" (and occasionally as the "anti-50 Shades" book and then having to say "No it is NOT 'Christian Romance' by ANY stretch of the imagination..."). Tentative title is Transitive Coolness.

I had been trying to write this (multi-volume) fantasy romance (I have a seriously overactive imagination). Only this other story started encroaching, especially after I tracked down the CD of an album that I'd had as a cassette (!) since I was a sophomore in college. And the guy who recorded it has had sort of an interesting career (to say the least).... So I started imagining having conversations with him. He's not the guy I used to go all weak in the knees over (and might -- in spite of myself -- still do if we were to ever meet). But I can see myself going out drinking with the first guy.... And then the story just sort of snowballed. But a lot of it is still in my head because it doesn't come out the same on paper somehow....

I had a conversation with an acquaintance a while back and was trying to explain to her that I could always envision the scenes in books (as if it were a movie running in my head). Well, except for stuff by Thomas Hardy.... And it seems perfectly normal and natural to me (even though I had a first grade teacher who apparently thought it was weird that I could envision the "Billy and Blaze" stories "even though I was a girl" -- which I remember thinking was a stupid comment even then as "Well, I'm not going to envision the story from the point of view of the HORSE!"). Because I've ALWAYS done it. But the person I was telling all this to said that *her* brain works totally differently -- she can do complex math problems but can't see a story unfolding as she reads it....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

If all of the characters were horses apart from a donkey / unicorn cross breed love child with anxiety issues then I would buy that book. I have always been hopeful of finding just such a thing.

Amory

[JakobS]

 

Hah! No, it's more about "fame" vs. being "ordinary". I'm describing it to people as "comic chick lit" (and occasionally as the "anti-50 Shades" book and then having to say "No it is NOT 'Christian Romance' by ANY stretch of the imagination..."). Tentative title is Transitive Coolness.

I had been trying to write this (multi-volume) fantasy romance (I have a seriously overactive imagination). Only this other story started encroaching, especially after I tracked down the CD of an album that I'd had as a cassette (!) since I was a sophomore in college. And the guy who recorded it has had sort of an interesting career (to say the least).... So I started imagining having conversations with him. He's not the guy I used to go all weak in the knees over (and might -- in spite of myself -- still do if we were to ever meet). But I can see myself going out drinking with the first guy.... And then the story just sort of snowballed. But a lot of it is still in my head because it doesn't come out the same on paper somehow....

I had a conversation with an acquaintance a while back and was trying to explain to her that I could always envision the scenes in books (as if it were a movie running in my head). Well, except for stuff by Thomas Hardy.... And it seems perfectly normal and natural to me (even though I had a first grade teacher who apparently thought it was weird that I could envision the "Billy and Blaze" stories "even though I was a girl" -- which I remember thinking was a stupid comment even then as "Well, I'm not going to envision the story from the point of view of the HORSE!"). Because I've ALWAYS done it. But the person I was telling all this to said that *her* brain works totally differently -- she can do complex math problems but can't see a story unfolding as she reads it....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

 

What makes you not want to envision scenes in Hardy's books? Is it related to some of the more controversial scenes in Tess, or Jude the Obscure? That's quite an angry emoji!

Edited March 15, 2018 by JakobS

[zaddick]

There are nibs that cost that much?

Cost and value are not the same in my mind. While 5 LAMY 2000 pens may cost me $800 at retail, I do not value them more than $800. Just a personal opinion and not aiming to disparage fans for the iconic pen.

 

It is also hard to untangle the cost of a nib from a pen of they are not available separately. Sailor King of Pen specialty nibs now have very high prices and for me, high value. But I cannot buy the nib alone. Romillo pens alhave hand made nibs and are well over $1K for an ebonite eye dropper pen. (To be fair I never tried to buy just a nib from Romillo so I am not sure if that is an option.) What of that cost is the pen vs. The nib? I can tell you for me 100% of the value is the nib. There are others who made custom nibs. Newton pens used to offer the option as $450 up charge (here am clear indication of marginal cost). Again value to me exceeded the cost because the nib was unique and soft in a way others are not. Finally, you have something like the bespoke programs at MB and Pelikan. Here the cost is very high, especially for MB, but you get what you want within reason, and it is specific to your desires and it works as advertised. Cost at MB is like 1200 Euros, but value may well exceed it for the purchaser. For others, clearly the money has more value (clearly for most people) so they remain uncommon.

 

There are other examples from other makers, but this was just to try to expand my point. I am not happy with the basics when it comes to pens, but I would not say my tastes are better or correct except as applied to me.

[zaddick]

Apart from specialised Sailor nibs, can you name any? And, please, don't include expensive junk Montblanc or other similar nibs. I'm referring to nibs that have a valid reason to cost that much.

The challenge I face with your comment is you are giving your value judgement (aka "expensive junk Montnlanc" and "valid reason") and expect it to narrow my preference, as though my answer is not correct if it conflicts with your experience/values.

 

My earlier post provides a few examples and one is MB bespoke nibs, but I could have said a 149 O3B or a vintage 139 nib as being higher value to me than the LAMY offerings. I guess it will not change your opinion. I do hope the other examples provide you some further avenues for exploration.

[Bluey]

The challenge I face with your comment is you are giving your value judgement (aka "expensive junk Montnlanc" and "valid reason") and expect it to narrow my preference, as though my answer is not correct if it conflicts with your experience/values.

 

My earlier post provides a few examples and one is MB bespoke nibs, but I could have said a 149 O3B or a vintage 139 nib as being higher value to me than the LAMY offerings. I guess it will not change your opinion. I do hope the other examples provide you some further avenues for exploration.

So, in other words, no.

By valid reason, it means that there is a reasonable and proportional labour and material cost that has gone into the making of the nib, and that that nib has a specific purpose that cannot be replicated at a lower price point.

[Corona688]

I had a conversation with an acquaintance a while back and was trying to explain to her that I could always envision the scenes in books (as if it were a movie running in my head). Well, except for stuff by Thomas Hardy.... And it seems perfectly normal and natural to me (even though I had a first grade teacher who apparently thought it was weird that I could envision the "Billy and Blaze" stories "even though I was a girl" -- which I remember thinking was a stupid comment even then as "Well, I'm not going to envision the story from the point of view of the HORSE!"). Because I've ALWAYS done it. But the person I was telling all this to said that *her* brain works totally differently -- she can do complex math problems but can't see a story unfolding as she reads it....

It's interesting how different we all think, not just in opinions and experiences but -- structurally, if that's the right word.

 

I saw this comic posted and it prompted a huge conversation on how common it is to be able to imagine voices. Lots of people find it easy, lots of people t find it impossible.

[zaddick]

So, in other words, no.

By valid reason, it means that there is a reasonable and proportional labour and material cost that has gone into the making of the nib, and that that nib has a specific purpose that cannot be replicated at a lower price point.

It seems you are changing your question to suit your conclusion. I talk about value which is subjective. I gave examples. You must not agree, given the quoted post, and then talk about a different point. I could say no nib on Earth has a specific purpose that could not be replicated for a lower price point. So they all cost too much. Yet you have pens and I have pens so we value them more than the alternative opportunities to deploy our capitol.

 

I don't look to convince you. I feel you have the desire to be right, but maybe that's just my incorrect opinion.

Edited March 15, 2018 by zaddick

[TSherbs]

Cost and value are not the same in my mind. While 5 LAMY 2000 pens may cost me $800 at retail, I do not value them more than $800. Just a personal opinion and not aiming to disparage fans for the iconic pen.

 

Ok. I thought you meant cost, in this thread on expensive (a money term) pens. Nevermind.

 

Value is an entirely subjective term as a verb. I know that we value things (even people) differently. That is a moot point and not subject to measurement or comparison.

[zaddick]

The only clearly priced nib (only) that I know of that is over $800 is the MB bespoke nib program. Others are entangled with pen prices.

[TSherbs]

The only clearly priced nib (only) that I know of that is over $800 is the MB bespoke nib program. Others are entangled with pen prices.

Wow. That is one crazy expensive nib.

[zaddick]

Wow. That is one crazy expensive nib.

Absolutely, and since it is priced in Euros, when the dollar weakens it gets even more expensive for folks in the US.

[praxim]

Ok. I thought you meant cost, in this thread on expensive (a money term) pens. Nevermind.

 

Value is an entirely subjective term as a verb. I know that we value things (even people) differently. That is a moot point and not subject to measurement or comparison.

 

You say "expensive (a money term)" which is a non-statement.

 

Here is a number of dollars: 499. Is that expensive in money terms? Yes? No? It depends what you are buying, whether you can and want to buy it, and what it does for you. That is, there must be a value to which the "money term" relates and each of us carries different assessments, not only of value of the item but also the significance of any given number / item in relation to wealth and to expenditure preferences.

 

To me, a box of fishing hooks is an expensive item, but a good car is pretty cheap (although happily I do not often need another). The dollar count is inadequate. One can narrow scope to pens to the same effect. I get similar aggregated pleasure from pens an order of magnitude apart in dollar price. Had I paid twice as much for the cheaper ones, it would have been expensive, and vice versa for the pricier ones. A number is only a number without a non-monetary value with which to compare items.

[Lloyd]

"What Am I Missing About Expensive Pens?"

The risk of pen-induced financial ruin?

What defines a pen as "expensive"? A $10 Hero 606 is expensive. A $500 like new Danitrio Densho is cheap.

[Bluey]

 

 

It seems you are changing your question to suit your conclusion. I talk about value which is subjective. I gave examples. You must not agree, given the quoted post, and then talk about a different point. I could say no nib on Earth has a specific purpose that could not be replicated for a lower price point. So they all cost too much. Yet you have pens and I have pens so we value them more than the alternative opportunities to deploy our capitol.

 

I don't look to convince you. I feel you have the desire to be right, but maybe that's just my incorrect opinion.

 

Sit at your desk, Sir. And close your eyes. No peeking. I will now place between your fingers an expensive luxurious Montblanc *pen with a nib that has been expertly tailored to your exact requirements based on your recent consultation with Montblanc's expert nibmeisters of the highest class.

And if you imagine hard enough it will be the **smoothest experience in a pen that you will have as you feel that luxury oozing through your fingers. That **smooth experience could only have come from Montblanc because of the money that you paid, so they say. Just remember that if it's expensive, then it must surely be good. All you have to do is imagine.

 

Now open your eyes, and notice how suddenly your high opinion of the pen crashes straight through the concrete floor.

 

 

 

 

 

*it's a Jinhao 5000 costing a couple of dollars

**the poster, Lloyd, below seems to be referring to this. Smoothness means nothing. I know that only too well, but not everyone does. Just ask Montblanc, Pelikan, Jowo, Bock, and people who value highly their nibs.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Bluey

[Lloyd]

Firstly, there's a LOT more to a nib than smoothness. Secondly, MB doesn't charge much to fix/replace the non-limited edition models as long as the nib isn't badly damaged. Lastly, one shouldn't buy a non-necessity that one can't afford to lose.

[TSherbs]

 

You say "expensive (a money term)" which is a non-statement.

 

Here is a number of dollars: 499. Is that expensive in money terms? Yes? No? It depends what you are buying, whether you can and want to buy it, and what it does for you. That is, there must be a value to which the "money term" relates and each of us carries different assessments, not only of value of the item but also the significance of any given number / item in relation to wealth and to expenditure preferences.

 

To me, a box of fishing hooks is an expensive item, but a good car is pretty cheap (although happily I do not often need another). The dollar count is inadequate. One can narrow scope to pens to the same effect. I get similar aggregated pleasure from pens an order of magnitude apart in dollar price. Had I paid twice as much for the cheaper ones, it would have been expensive, and vice versa for the pricier ones. A number is only a number without a non-monetary value with which to compare items.

I tried to understand this, but I couldn't. I was simply asking that other poster if there were any nibs that cost over $800. The answer came back yes. I call that "crazy expensive." Others can call it "cheap" FAIC. Clearly, I was referring to costs of nibs, not cars or what have you. And I didn't mean "crazy expensive" as in the amount of derision that one might suffer from one's spouse for having spent retirement seed money on such a frivolous item as a pen.