What Am I Missing About Expensive Pens?

[zaddick]

JMNAV - I appreciate your thoughtful, even toned contribution. A healthy discourse where people make statements for the consideration of others and don't spend time trying to be "right" on subjective issues is all I could ask.

 

I don't see what FP companies are doing as unhealthy. I think the marginal cost of production is not the best guide for pricing certain goods, even if it may not seem fair. A FP is not an essential item so I have no personal qualms about a firm seeking to balance price with volume to seek max profits over the long term. I would hope the results would either drive the company to correction or encourage entrance of new competition, which I feel has been happening with all the new pen companies recently.

 

And what was it everyone who is older than a millennial has been told... oh yes, life is not fair.

[stephenfountain]

To be honest, I love threads like this. Sure, after a couple of pages, it veers off topic and crashes down the side of a hill, but the replies are often interesting and gives you insight into how other people think of (and enjoy) the hobby.

 

Anyway, we're 10 pages in. I guess I should get more popcorn

 

 

P.p.s.

Also, where's the OP? I hope we didn't scare him away

 

+1

 

Love the way this thread has sparked off such a passionate debate, and no, you haven't scared me off LOL

[TSherbs]

I am more leery than zaddick of marketing practices. I consider most companies are out to separate me from portions of my income and frequently they make false claims or dubious suggestions in the process of trying to manipulate me. Especially luxury goods. From my point of view, fountain pens over, say, $300 had better be works of art... Or they are fleece jobs. As others have noted, we are free to throw our money around how we please. One person's fleece is another's must-have.

Edited March 17, 2018 by TSherbs

[Dickkooty2]

@TSherbs (above)

 

From my point of view, fountain pens over, say, $300 had better be works of art... Or they are fleece jobs. As others have noted, we are free to throw our money around how we please. One person's fleece is another's must-have.

 

Of course, there is the 'Golden Fleece' sought by Jason and the Argonauts. That seemed to be a must-have.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Fleece

 

I remember too many hours on this in Latin III

[Tseg]

I am now able to speak definitively on this subject.

 

A Japanese order from a month ago showed up today and a US online retailer purchase also showed up today. My collection doubled from 2 sub-$100 pens to adding 2 $100+ pens.

 

For the past month+ I have used a Pilot Metropolitan - fine - (priced in the $teens) and a TWSBI 580AL (priced in the $60's). I ended up buying an additional TWSBI broad nib because the medium was having slow starvation issues. The Broad has worked out well.

 

 

Now both run flawlessly, and without knowing better, both seemed real good.

 

Now I have added in the $100-$200 range the Waterman Carene, Fine, and in the $200-$300 range the Pilot Custom 823, Fine.

 

 

My raw untrained experience:

 

Pilot Metropolitan -fine- (~$15): Writes perfectly under any condition with any ink, is pretty smooth in its sweet spot, but gets scratchy outside its sweet spot - Section too narrow for my liking. It looks more expensive than it is. Limited ink capacity. My hand cramps with long use. I can actually control fine technical writing better with this pen than with the Custom 823 that has a bouncier, bigger nib.

TWSBI 580 AL - broad- (~$65): Writes well in its sweet spot, even though it sounds like a magic marker, but goes dry and scratchy if not careful to stay in sweet spot. Each ink performs noticeably different. It looks a bit toyish but also fun and cool in a non-professional way. Significant ink capacity. Comfort ok, not great.

Waterman Carène - fine- (~$130): This pen came out of left field but it is an amazing pen. Beautiful, smooth, quiet. I feel like I could write novels with this pen. A joy to use. Moderate ink capacity. Very comfortable. Super classy looking.

Pilot Custom 823 - fine (~$230): This pen is just slightly smoother than the Metropolitan and a bit juicier for a Fine, but it has no sweet spot, it feels the same no matter how I'm holding or writing with it, which I give a 2 thumb's up versus the Metropolitan. Amazing ink capacity. Very comfortable in hand. Very conservative looking. Built to travel.

 

I know some believe a new pen will feel/work even better after a few day's use... I really don't know. But if so, that provides more potential upside for the Carène and Custom 823,

 

So after my definitive assessment, I'm not sure what to say... they all have their pros and cons. I enjoy my expensive pens more, but may be completely psychological. My favorite to just enjoy writing aimlessly with is that Waterman, though.

 

In 2 more weeks I'll have the Sailor KOP Pro Gear - Bold (~$600) arriving so we'll see how that fits into the equation.

[TSherbs]

@tseg

 

Careful, the first derivative of your spending graph is >0!

[TSherbs]

@TSherbs (above)

 

From my point of view, fountain pens over, say, $300 had better be works of art... Or they are fleece jobs. As others have noted, we are free to throw our money around how we please. One person's fleece is another's must-have.

 

Of course, there is the 'Golden Fleece' sought by Jason and the Argonauts. That seemed to be a must-have.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Fleece

 

I remember too many hours on this in Latin III

Word.

 

Not sure it was worth the effort. (you decide if I mean "fleece" or "Latin").

 

[Tseg]

@tseg

 

Careful, the first derivative of your spending graph is >0!

 

Hah! Luckily over the years I've shaken off the camera equipment hobby and watch collecting hobby... this pen collecting business is a walk in the park.

[jmnav]

Hi Tseg:

 

My raw untrained experience:

 

Pilot Metropolitan -fine-

TWSBI 580 AL - broad-

Waterman Carène - fine-

Pilot Custom 823 - fine

 

Not to ruin your experience, but I'd say your assesment says more about oriental versus european than cheap versus expensive (or, at least, they overlap).

[Tseg]

Hi Tseg:

 

 

Not to ruin your experience, but I'd say your assesment says more about oriental versus european than cheap versus expensive (or, at least, they overlap).

 

My experience is now ruined. Off to the next hobby.

[max dog]

I am now able to speak definitively on this subject.

 

A Japanese order from a month ago showed up today and a US online retailer purchase also showed up today. My collection doubled from 2 sub-$100 pens to adding 2 $100+ pens.

 

For the past month+ I have used a Pilot Metropolitan - fine - (priced in the $teens) and a TWSBI 580AL (priced in the $60's). I ended up buying an additional TWSBI broad nib because the medium was having slow starvation issues. The Broad has worked out well.

 

 

Now both run flawlessly, and without knowing better, both seemed real good.

 

Now I have added in the $100-$200 range the Waterman Carene, Fine, and in the $200-$300 range the Pilot Custom 823, Fine.

 

 

My raw untrained experience:

 

Pilot Metropolitan -fine- (~$15): Writes perfectly under any condition with any ink, is pretty smooth in its sweet spot, but gets scratchy outside its sweet spot - Section too narrow for my liking. It looks more expensive than it is. Limited ink capacity. My hand cramps with long use. I can actually control fine technical writing better with this pen than with the Custom 823 that has a bouncier, bigger nib.

TWSBI 580 AL - broad- (~$65): Writes well in its sweet spot, even though it sounds like a magic marker, but goes dry and scratchy if not careful to stay in sweet spot. Each ink performs noticeably different. It looks a bit toyish but also fun and cool in a non-professional way. Significant ink capacity. Comfort ok, not great.

Waterman Carène - fine- (~$130): This pen came out of left field but it is an amazing pen. Beautiful, smooth, quiet. I feel like I could write novels with this pen. A joy to use. Moderate ink capacity. Very comfortable. Super classy looking.

Pilot Custom 823 - fine (~$230): This pen is just slightly smoother than the Metropolitan and a bit juicier for a Fine, but it has no sweet spot, it feels the same no matter how I'm holding or writing with it, which I give a 2 thumb's up versus the Metropolitan. Amazing ink capacity. Very comfortable in hand. Very conservative looking. Built to travel.

 

I know some believe a new pen will feel/work even better after a few day's use... I really don't know. But if so, that provides more potential upside for the Carène and Custom 823,

 

So after my definitive assessment, I'm not sure what to say... they all have their pros and cons. I enjoy my expensive pens more, but may be completely psychological. My favorite to just enjoy writing aimlessly with is that Waterman, though.

 

In 2 more weeks I'll have the Sailor KOP Pro Gear - Bold (~$600) arriving so we'll see how that fits into the equation.

Thanks for sharing your experience, and very nice overview of your pens. Looking forward to seeing your impression of the Sailor KOP.

 

I think with your example here, you answered the OPs question. What am I missing about expensive pens?

At the lower end: without knowing better, both seemed real good.

 

As you explore the possibilities going more upscale, we see statements like:

A joy to use,

Super classy looking.

2 thumb's up

I enjoy my expensive pens more

 

This mirrors my experience too. Increased craftsmanship, attention to detail, higher level of pride and care in the creation of a product generally yields more satisfaction and joy for the consumer who have a taste to appreciate it.

Edited March 17, 2018 by max dog

[kazoolaw]

Not to ruin your experience, but I'd say your assesment says more about oriental versus european than cheap versus expensive (or, at least, they overlap).

 

Didn't know we could say "Oriental" any more.

 

And aren't 3 of the 4 pens mentioned Asian? At the very least, there's a Pilot in both camps. And I think TWSBI is from Taiwan.

[jmnav]

 

My experience is now ruined. Off to the next hobby.

 

Probably "ruin" was not the best term (you can blame my poor English: I won't think badly of you for that ), but I think you got my point, didn't you?

Edited March 18, 2018 by jmnav

[jmnav]

 

Didn't know we could say "Oriental" any more.

 

And aren't 3 of the 4 pens mentioned Asian? At the very least, there's a Pilot in both camps. And I think TWSBI is from Taiwan.

 

Oh c'mon, don't tell me that or I'll feel like Mary Cooper from Big Bang Theory "-Oh, I thought the one we couldn't say was Ching-Chong -Yeah, that too".

 

Now, seriously, does "Oriental" bear any negative connotation -in all English spoken countries, only in USA...? In Spanish "oriental" just means "from far east" (orient just being the side where the sun rises; the opposite being occidental, as occident means the side where the sun sets).

 

I was about to say "Japanese versus..." as all these "...but either its sweet spot is too short or I can't find it" cried "japanese" to me, but then I noticed the Twsbi, so I made my claim geographically wider.

 

But, yes, I still think it's more about Europe vs the others than cost. I'd say, try a Pelikan 200 (or M400 for that matter), and provided you are lucky with QA, you'll probably find it works more or less like the Waterman. Then buy a more expensive Pelikan (say, an M800) and you'll find it's still more or less the same. And then, pay bucks from your nose for a brand new Montblanc 149 and you'll probably feel you still are on the same league. In other words: chances are that you'd feel the KOP being nearer to the Pilot because of origin than to the Montblanc because of price, and the same could be said of the (cheaper) Pelikan or Waterman being nearer to the Montblanc because of origin than to the Pilot Custom because of price.

Edited March 18, 2018 by jmnav

[Lloyd]

Can we still use the word "sweet"?

[praxim]

You are not allowed to ask permission without seeking authorisation first.

[Lloyd]

Do I need authorisation to seek authorisation?

[dcwaites]

Do I need authorisation to seek authorisation?

 

 

Form 5AB45-ae3 Authorisation to seek Authorisation form.

 

You will need to fill out an Application 5AB45-aeQ form to seek permission to apply for Form 5AB45-ae3

 

If Application 5AB45-aeQ is granted, then you will need to fill out form Application 5AB45-aeR to apply for Form 5AB45-ae3

 

Is that clear? If so, I need to re-write the instructions.

[Lloyd]

I'm glad the authorization process has been streamlined. It used to be more circuitous back when I read about it in "The Trial".

[Tseg]

Sorry, meant honey pot, not sweet spot.