Last Chance Saloon

[Uncial]

I have at least a dozen vintage pens that annoyingly get little use because of burping problems and I cannot for the life of me get to the bottom of why it happens. One of them is my beloved sf32. It's in near mint condition, which is part of why I really don't want to give up on it. I've tried at least a dozen different inks in it, set and reset the nib and feed in different ways and recently installed a new sac. None of it has helped at all. The pen still burps. I think I've asked this question a few times here on FPN in other sub-forums, but get the same answer - air is getting in, must be the sac or nib and feed set up, but I think I've exhausted all possibilities. I have two other Swans, including another sf32, also in great condition, they never need attention and work flawlessly.

 

I'm beginning to wonder if some vintage pens are just duds and burping is the unexplainable, unfixible symptom of what is plain and simple, a bad pen. Is there something I could have possibly missed? Are there some vintage pens that were simply born never to write without vomiting the contents of their bladders all over you?

[Cob]

I have to say that i have never heard of a SF32. Do you mean SF2?

 

I have quite a few old Swans, and must of them are really rather on the wet side, people have remarked to me "why are your pens so wet? " And I have been unable to answer them!

 

However the only ones I have had that "burp" have been eyedroppers which are rather prone to this phenomenon.

 

Cob

[Uncial]

Sorry, I meant sf 230. It's the one with the double rings and the little ripple detail on the end cap.

It leaks just looking at it. I'm so frustrated by it.

It's not the only one. I have about 15-20 vintage pens that work beautifully; I love them and use them regularly. But there are a few that just seem to misbehave no matter what. It's not just wet writing, it's great big blobs of ink forming on the nib and dripping everywhere. I have a Waterman 52 that does it no matter what I do. I've reset the nib and feed, tried numerous inks, installed a silicone sac, then went back to a rubber sac - still vomited ink all over the place. I had three Conklin Crescents (three different models; 2NL, 3NL and the 4NL). They all burped horribly. Again, I tried everything and changing the sac helped with two of them Two had unusually long sacs fitted), but one is back to its old tricks. I would love to know what the heck I'm doing wrong here because endless reading, talking to pen repairers and posts here seem to meet a dead end. I feel like I must just have a few complete lemons. It would be nice to have a near mint sf230 in working order, but I'm beginning to wonder of the real reason it's in such mint condition is because it was a dud from the get go and was just never used.

Edited March 4, 2018 by Uncial

[Uncial]

It's so strange. Everything you read online is either the burping issue with ED's or people saying they only have problems with burping in ED's. I've quite a few ED's and only ever had twp issues; one was a mis-cut feed (that when corrected was perfectly fine) and the other was the result of a strange effect from one specific ink. When I first encountered this issue in vintage lever filling pens I thought I must have very hot hands. How wrong was I. Numerous ED's later, no problems.

[Cob]

I have here a SF230, rather a scruffy example; it behaves perfectly. There's a 242/52, and some Leverless models, all good except the L245 but I think that one needs to have its nib tweaked, it was fine with its previous nib.

 

How are the pens stored? Is it very hot where you are for example? I realise that I am clutching at straws here! I doubt it could be blocked breather holes in the barrels, but it might be worth checking. Sometimes they are clogged with polish, though I would expect this to reduce flow rather than the reverse.

 

Cob

[Uncial]

Breather holes are fine. Ireland isn't really known for its heat. Pens are stored in a drawer when not inked and when inked I have to keep it stored nib up or the ink will slowly seep out the nib. the real issues transpire when writing with it. Then it blobs ink repeatedly whether full, half full or nearly empty. When not vomiting ink everywhere - in between blobs - it writes fine, quite wet, but not overly so. Nice steady flow, then disaster.

I'm at a loss and feel at the end of my tether. Sorry if it comes across as ranting, but it's not meant to, I'd just like to find a solution if there is one.

I surely can't have bought all the burping vintage pens on the market, can I?

Edited March 4, 2018 by Uncial

[CS388]

Do you have another feed which you could swap over? Even if only for a trial period? Maybe from one of your good 230's?

 

Am also clutching at straws here. But burping usually involves some inbalance of air and flow, and if your pen is airtight, then the feed is the only 'control' left to suspect?

 

 

...snip...

 

I'm beginning to wonder of the real reason it's in such mint condition is because it was a dud from the get go and was just never used.

 

An interesting and (possibly) valid theory. But, even then, there should be a reason? Maybe there is a flaw/void inside the section, (or feeder case if it has one) which is collecting ink or air?

 

Only so many straws I can clutch at in one post!

 

Good luck.

[Uncial]

I don't like to pull the nib and feed often if I can avoid it. I've been tempted to pull the nib and feed on the other one but I was told it was heat set so presumably there would be a high risk of breaking that setting if I pulled it. I have pulled the nib and feed on this one to try and re-seat the nib and feed in slightly different ways, but it hasn't made any difference. I'd be happy to buy a feed from someone to try it out of that were possible. When I replaced the sac there was no damage at all to the nipple. Pulling the nib and feed and looking down the section it all looks clean; no odd lumps or residue and the feed itself seems in good condition.

[ralfstc]

Hi Uncial,

 

Another slightly off the wall suggestion; have you considered sac size? You could try fitting a sac that was much smaller than normal simply to rule out the "hand heat" phenomenon. 10 minutes work, but probably worth it as an experiment. I'd try to find one that was small enough to avoid the barrel interior surface completely.

 

Most likely it is manufacturing variations in the feed, I'd guess, making some more sensitive to flooding . . .

 

Cheers,

 

Ralf

[Uncial]

Thanks Ralph, been there done that, sadly no difference.

The feed is very long and on the bottom it says Swan S F 2.

I've been searching for feeds and came across these generic feeds here:

www.pentooling.com/partsmiscgeneric.html

(if you scroll down the page you can see a picture of them). Not sure if any would work, I'd need to carefully check the sizes obviously. The nib and feed that are in the pen are not loose but its certainly not a tight fit.

[eachan]

Sounds like a sac issue to me.

[CS388]

The nib and feed that are in the pen are not loose but its certainly not a tight fit.

 

I'd say that has to be eliminated as a possible source of the problem, before going any further.

Nib/feed should be a tight fit - although they can sometimes be pulled, they're usually so tight that they have to be knocked out. I'd definitely try a new feed from the page you linked to.

If it works you can start looking for a parts pen (with feed) to get your pen back to original.

If not, well, we know that we need to look elsewhere for the fix!

 

Fingers crossed.

[Goudy]

I occasionally catch my SF1 blowing bubbles through its breather hole. I think it happens when the sac is nearly empty. I imagine that if the breather hole was constricted, the expanding air might push blobs of ink out of the feed instead.

 

[Cob]

If the feed is loose in the section then certainly that could cause a problem. I have found Mabie Todd pens forgiving regarding the fit of the feed. By this I mean it is always easy to refit the nib and feed after cleaning. Perhaps that's why my pens are wet! I remember one feed that was too loose and I had nothing else that would do, so I coated the feed with shellac (obviously not the channel) and let it set overnight. This worked well,

 

Conway Stewarts are a real pain: I have to blast the section with the hairdryer to reinsert the nib and feed almost every time - Waterman's pens can be a pain in this way too.

 

The hairdryer is useful for removing nibs too: just warm up the section and unless the pen as not been dismantled for a while, ,the nib and feed should come out easily.

 

Cob

[Uncial]

Cob, when you said you used shellac I presume you spread a layer over the round end of the feed but not of course the actual channel?

[Cob]

Cob, when you said you used shellac I presume you spread a layer over the round end of the feed but not of course the actual channel?

Exactly

 

Avoid the channel at all costs! And you need only a very thin coating, though of course you can rub it down if necessary.

 

C.

[Uncial]

Thank you. I think I have two options before giving up entirely. here's hoping.

[CraigR]

I have moved the post to a correct spot

Edited March 6, 2018 by CraigR

[Uncial]

 

So I applied the shellac and set it in a bit of card on my desk overnight to dry. Cat finds it and chews it.

I guess I just wasn't ever meant to have this pen in a writing condition.

I looked at the feeds from Pen Tooling, but none of them are a good match. I'd have to shave one down an awful lot and take a chunk out of the end of it. Shipping to Ireland was also incredibly high for a half ounce package. So, I guess it just isn't to be. Another busted pen to languish in the drawer. Oh well. Really though, I fear my days of buying vintage are done. I just don't need the stress and frustration.