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Demand For Flex Nibs: Do People Want Them?


tonybelding

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f a pen manufacturer could produce an affordable and reliable modern flex fountain pen off the shelf new that was easy to use for a newbie, it would generate the demand.

 

The reason I started this thread was because there is an affordable and reliable modern flex fountain pen available off-the-shelf that is easy to use for a newbie—and it doesn't seem to be getting much buzz. That's the Karas Kustoms Ink with the Bock Titan nib that you can get right now from Goulet for $140. But I don't know who (aside from me) has got one; I don't see others reviewing it.

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I sent an office memo once with a nib that was dotting like yours in the word "looking." (last line)

 

Later I found out the guy who received it got all bent out of shape because he thought I was making little hearts intentionally. :wub: :lticaptd:

 

BTW...Nice writing :D

Edited by Nail-Bender
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As a "left hander" that uses both hands, I would strongly encourage a left-handed person to try using the other hand sometimes. Use the left hand for everyday fast notes, but try the right hand for slow, deliberate work.

 

If you are ambidexterous, that's great. There some things I can do with either hand, some things like scissors that I can only use right handed, and there are some things like a pen thet I can only use with my left hand. Nuns tried for a school year to make me write right handed. It was an unpleasant school year.

"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

 

 

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Tom, it would be very nice if you let us know, and see, how you enjoy the nib once it arrives!

 

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/329223-enjoying-montblanc-pens-broad-oblique-extra-fine-le-bespoke/page-66

~ Stompie:

 

Please see Post #1301 in the above thread.

A number of photos and a handwriting sample have been posted.

The nib's quality as a versatile sketch nib surpasses all expectations.

With time, I'll post more.

Tom K.

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Regalia Writing Labs Flex nib. These can be seen (I believe) at the upcoming Chicago Pen Show.

 

v220ZCb.jpg

Edited by JonSzanto

"When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick; and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

~ Benjamin Franklin

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Aurora Optima Flex, demonstrated by Bittner Pens (on Instagram)

 

"When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick; and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

~ Benjamin Franklin

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That looks good, but I cannot do that with my Aurora Optima Flex :(

 

come to think of it and back to the main question (do we want flex nibs?)

my answer is still yes, and I suppose that for several others the answer may be similar.

Although I cannot get that sort of performance from my Optima flex (due to my lack of adequate skill - that perhaps I could excercise) still I feel a big difference using the Optima Flex vs other nail nibbed pens (which adequately justifies wanting the Optima flex).

Writing is simply different, softer, less tiring, smoother, more fluent, in a word more pleasant, for me.

Slight line variation comes naturally as I write, without looking for it.

And since I use my pens at work mostly, where I don't have much time for fancy writing, nor is it much useful, being my notes usually just for myself, still that extra reward has great value for me.

 

I would probably not be much interested in a wet noodle nib, were it available, but semi-flex or at least springy vs stiff nib, yes, absolutely.

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This idea of "soft" vs. "flex" was just brought up in another thread over in the general area.

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/335876-flex-vs-soft/

 

I gave the historical view that these were recognized as two distinct characteristics in the early days of metallic dip nibs. Flex affects line modulation, and softness affects hand fatigue and comfort in writing. This was the way it was viewed 150 years ago. With the advent of fountain pens, some pens exhibited one characteristic, or another, but rarely both. And most fountain pen nibs, especially after the 30's, were nails which exhibit neither characteristic. Some German and British pens still had some softness, and today there are a few specialty pens which claim softness, but they're all pretty stiff compared to what softness meant to those who were used to writing with quills.

 

And a soft nib is probably easier to make than a flexible one. Maybe.

 

“When the historians of education do equal and exact justice to all who have contributed toward educational progress, they will devote several pages to those revolutionists who invented steel pens and blackboards.” V.T. Thayer, 1928

Check out my Steel Pen Blog

"No one is exempt from talking nonsense; the mistake is to do it solemnly."

-Montaigne

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The reason I started this thread was because there is an affordable and reliable modern flex fountain pen available off-the-shelf that is easy to use for a newbie—and it doesn't seem to be getting much buzz. That's the Karas Kustoms Ink with the Bock Titan nib that you can get right now from Goulet for $140. But I don't know who (aside from me) has got one; I don't see others reviewing it.

 

Thanks for the public service announcement. I don't have much interest in flex, but plenty of others do.

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@AAAndrew thank you for pointing me to the thread.

I learned to write with a dip pen and moved almost immediately to the fountain pen (at six years of age).
I have never written with the biro, if not forcefully when absolutely necessary (would rather use a felt tip pen in case).

What you say may be true, and in fact I can tell the difference between the nibs in my Pelikan 140s or 400 NN and the Platinum nibs in some of my Visconti's, or the titanium nib in some of my Stipulas, or the gold nibs and the steel nibs in my modern Pelikans, and some rigid nails in the Jinhaos, etc.
Despite I can distinguish flex from softness, both of them are desirable to me, vs rigid nibs.

I however just wanted to evidence the fact that (specifically regarding flex) it is a desired feature which still affects my writing despite I may not be skilled enough to exploit if fully (I have never really excelled at calligraphy, despite having practiced it at school).

So if today's industry can offer a nib like the Aurora flex on the Optima, vs a standard Jowo #6 (which is still not a nail like a Jinhao) it does make a difference to me, and it is a wanted feature for me.

As I mentioned I would probably not be interested in a wet noodle nib if today's industry were able to replicate one (we were discussing whether we still want flex nibs, assuming modern pen maker were able to replicate them), mostly because I would find scarce use for it.

If today's industry were able to offer nibs like some of the ones on my 140s and 400NNs however (true semi-flex, not soft), I would be.

 

edited for spelling

Edited by sansenri
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The reason I started this thread was because there is an affordable and reliable modern flex fountain pen available off-the-shelf that is easy to use for a newbie—and it doesn't seem to be getting much buzz. That's the Karas Kustoms Ink with the Bock Titan nib that you can get right now from Goulet for $140. But I don't know who (aside from me) has got one; I don't see others reviewing it.

 

Coming late to the party...

 

And going back to your original topic - I don't think that demand or interest for flexible nibs, or pens with flexible nibs has changed. In fact, I believe it is growing. It is following general increase in demand for fountain pens.

 

I haven't stopped buying them, and I haven't stopped searching and looking for them (same goes for my friends). In fact, if I consider most discussions in our local pen store and pen group, everyone will consider buying a flexible nib/pen whenever there's a chance to get one.

 

What may have occurred is that there was a period of a significant increase in demand for information. Therefore, one would see topics on FPN and elsewhere, people are trying to educate themselves, gather information and learn how to use flexible nibs. And yes, there was a "legend of a PINK nib" too. Then, several manufacturers answered this demand. Aurora, Wahl Eversharp, Armando Simoni, Franklin Cristoph, Marlen, one may argue Visconti too, and many others. There are cheap(er) options, alloy nibs, titanium etc - and there are not so cheap options... and two collided - demand for information and increase in flex nib offerings.

 

[Another thing that may have occurred (it seems to me) is that people learned that truly flexible nibs (super-flex, wet noodles) are not practical and they are used only in "Special occasions". They are not for everyday use, like taking notes in the meetings and so on. However, people love the line variation (some) and thus - acceptance of semi-flex to medium-flexible nibs also grew. So, practicality of modern flex nibs became apparent and I'd say - such pens are more in demand.]

 

Also, after the period of information "feeding frenzy" - these days there's so much written about flexible nibs that one may not need to start the topic. People (especially young people) are practical and quickly find info and move on to purchasing :)

 

Personally, after satisfying my "lust" for super-flex and wet-noodle nibs, I'm actually after semi-flex and moderately-flexible nibs - for everyday use. Although I had many complaints in 2016/2017, I believe now that Aurora nailed the recipe for modern flexible nibs. I love to write expressive letters - from time to time - but I love even more the versatility of modern flex nibs for everyday use.

 

And there's a market & mind state of affairs. If one is truly and only after line variation , then it will not matter what the material of the nib is and how much does it cost - such person would consider $100 pen as well as $500 or $1,000 pen - or dip pen/nib - as long as it is providing the needed flexibility. But in reality, it goes for any pen with any type of the nib - there's a state of mind which makes people buy "nicer" pens, based on the perception, aura or preference. I have cheap pens with flexible nibs, but I don't use them. It doesn't feel the same... or maybe I'm a snob.

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That looks good, but I cannot do that with my Aurora Optima Flex :(

 

come to think of it and back to the main question (do we want flex nibs?)

my answer is still yes, and I suppose that for several others the answer may be similar.

Although I cannot get that sort of performance from my Optima flex (due to my lack of adequate skill - that perhaps I could excercise) still I feel a big difference using the Optima Flex vs other nail nibbed pens (which adequately justifies wanting the Optima flex).

Writing is simply different, softer, less tiring, smoother, more fluent, in a word more pleasant, for me.

Slight line variation comes naturally as I write, without looking for it.

And since I use my pens at work mostly, where I don't have much time for fancy writing, nor is it much useful, being my notes usually just for myself, still that extra reward has great value for me.

 

I would probably not be much interested in a wet noodle nib, were it available, but semi-flex or at least springy vs stiff nib, yes, absolutely.

 

I completely agree with you on this. I have vintage wet noodles and super-flex nibs, and these days ... 80-90% of time I use Aurora 88 or Optima with flexible nibs and Sailor King of Pen even Pelikan M1000. It just gives that little "extra".

 

As for your Optima - you may want to read this : https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/331428-aurora-88-flex-nib/?p=4016984

 

I have compared three nibs - same pen, and probably different metal batches. Now I bought one Optima with flexible nib, and I've learned my lesson - I've tried several pens to find one with most flexibility.

Even then, I was OK with nib not being fully (super) flexible.

Also, it seems like Aurora has worked on their feeds. When I got my 88s Aniversarios - initially they were railroading like orient express. Then my friend nibmeister cut out a bit of material from the feed channel and I got constant ink flow (maybe even too much). With Optima, if I use "wet" ink - it doesn't railroad that much. One more thing - I've noticed (since I'm using Aurora's all the time) - they have "loosened up" a bit. I'm not pushing the nibs to the extreme, but I'm not gentle either - and after few months of using them, they got a bit flexier.

 

And btw - that nib in the video above - it's not that flexible. It's just decent handwriting...

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And btw - that nib in the video above - it's not that flexible. It's just decent handwriting...

 

It is most certainly more than just "decent handwriting". If that were the only factor you would not see the line variation that is apparent and can be viewed as it is being laid down. The entire point of putting the video here was to counter the repeated claim from the OP that the Bock "Titan" nib is a flex nib. It isn't, and that isn't supported in the writing example Tony supplied. The video, however, does amply show the line variation available to even a moderately flexible nib. We will be seeing more in this area in the coming years.

"When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick; and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

~ Benjamin Franklin

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It is most certainly more than just "decent handwriting". If that were the only factor you would not see the line variation that is apparent and can be viewed as it is being laid down. The entire point of putting the video here was to counter the repeated claim from the OP that the Bock "Titan" nib is a flex nib. It isn't, and that isn't supported in the writing example Tony supplied. The video, however, does amply show the line variation available to even a moderately flexible nib. We will be seeing more in this area in the coming years.

 

Ok, I stand corrected here. You are right, nib is flexible. As for titanium nibs - I don't use them, tried them and I didn't like the feel. Those I've tried felt very fragile.

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I completely agree with you on this. I have vintage wet noodles and super-flex nibs, and these days ... 80-90% of time I use Aurora 88 or Optima with flexible nibs and Sailor King of Pen even Pelikan M1000. It just gives that little "extra".

 

As for your Optima - you may want to read this : https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/331428-aurora-88-flex-nib/?p=4016984

 

I have compared three nibs - same pen, and probably different metal batches. Now I bought one Optima with flexible nib, and I've learned my lesson - I've tried several pens to find one with most flexibility.

Even then, I was OK with nib not being fully (super) flexible.

Also, it seems like Aurora has worked on their feeds. When I got my 88s Aniversarios - initially they were railroading like orient express. Then my friend nibmeister cut out a bit of material from the feed channel and I got constant ink flow (maybe even too much). With Optima, if I use "wet" ink - it doesn't railroad that much. One more thing - I've noticed (since I'm using Aurora's all the time) - they have "loosened up" a bit. I'm not pushing the nibs to the extreme, but I'm not gentle either - and after few months of using them, they got a bit flexier.

 

And btw - that nib in the video above - it's not that flexible. It's just decent handwriting...

 

I also do agree with your comments, thanks for extending my thoughts.

I love my Aurora 88s and Optimas, and also own some of the early versions of the 88 Big with long tines.

Essentially, in my opinion, Aurora has not developed a new flex nib, they just put back in production the long tines version they had on the market several years ago. Fortunately for them, since they probably are still among some of the few companies who can make own nibs, they still have the machines.

In fact the newer regular nibs are not as nice.

Thank for pointing out the thread on the Optima flex. I bought mine from a local online seller and could not try it, but some doubts that nibs may differ from one to the other did arise from seing some of the reviews.

I am considering buying an 88 flex, so I will be more careful to try it.

I also have the feeling we will be seeing these nibs on other Aurora versions to come.

The level of flex on my current Optima is still noticeable, I am curious to try more flexible same version nibs, but I am keeping this one nonetheless.

 

just for fun, here is my millerighe wih the long tines nib, it is moderately flex, similar to my current Optima flex

fpn_1525382674__p1080949-3.jpg

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This video makes me think, perhaps there would be more demand for flex nibs, if the only options today weren't just dip pens, going vintage or hacking a dip nib into a fountain pen.

??

 

"These are the modern options." "Too bad there's no modern options". This endless cycle confuses me so much.

 

If that's a hunt 101 as NB says, that's the most difficult-to-use nib I have in my collection.

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I also do agree with your comments, thanks for extending my thoughts.

I love my Aurora 88s and Optimas, and also own some of the early versions of the 88 Big with long tines.

Essentially, in my opinion, Aurora has not developed a new flex nib, they just put back in production the long tines version they had on the market several years ago. Fortunately for them, since they probably are still among some of the few companies who can make own nibs, they still have the machines.

In fact the newer regular nibs are not as nice.

Thank for pointing out the thread on the Optima flex. I bought mine from a local online seller and could not try it, but some doubts that nibs may differ from one to the other did arise from seing some of the reviews.

I am considering buying an 88 flex, so I will be more careful to try it.

I also have the feeling we will be seeing these nibs on other Aurora versions to come.

The level of flex on my current Optima is still noticeable, I am curious to try more flexible same version nibs, but I am keeping this one nonetheless.

 

just for fun, here is my millerighe wih the long tines nib, it is moderately flex, similar to my current Optima flex

fpn_1525382674__p1080949-3.jpg

 

Now THAT is a beautiful pen!

 

I am ... I will buy Aurora 88 - regardless of the flex or no flex nib (I can exchange with my 88s Aniversarios) which has a cap like your pen and black barrel.

And you are right, I've seen those "older" nibs with longer tines, and tried few. But looking at my current 88s they were slightly less flexible. Well, who knows what is Aurora doing, if they are manufacturing new batches or using old ones, maybe they have really tweaked old alloy, maybe not. I know I love my pens, and some are semi-flex at best, some are fully flexible. I'm ok with that, I don't need full flexibility all the time.

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The reason I started this thread was because there is an affordable and reliable modern flex fountain pen available off-the-shelf that is easy to use for a newbieand it doesn't seem to be getting much buzz. That's the Karas Kustoms Ink with the Bock Titan nib that you can get right now from Goulet for $140. But I don't know who (aside from me) has got one; I don't see others reviewing it.

Agreed.....
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