Demand For Flex Nibs: Do People Want Them?

[Corona688]

  On 3/31/2018 at 11:37 AM, jar said:

We need to remember that the companies that did make flex nibs (Sheaffer for example had lots of various flex nibs in several widths) stopped making flex nibs for a reason.

We all know why - it's been a hard century for fountain pen makers. Also... How shall I put this?

 

  Quote

"In ancient times cats were worshipped as gods; they have never forgotten this." - Terry Pratchett

Artists buy them. Thanks to them, flex nibs survive to this day, bic only killed the plain writing ones. Dip pens are a cumbersome, rusty product by modern standards though, increasingly plagued by quality problems. There's an opportunity here.

 

But the old penmakers won't take it. Flexy fountain pens are supposed to be expensive, gold-filled luxuries, they'll be damned if they start making products to ink the morning funnies.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Corona688

[sidthecat]

I wrote to Joey Grasty the other day to inquire about some feed work, and he replied that he’s not taking on such projects so that he can get his flex nib manufacture up on its legs.

This sounds like an awfully worthwhile project. I also wonder if anyone’s tried out his product?

[Tom Kellie]

~ Reading through the posts on this thread has been an education.

The discussion of handwriting history, changes in pen sales, nib craftsmanship — all valuable to one who knows so little.

Fountain Pen Network is such a fine resource, with humor, wisdom and practical advice all leavened with goodwill.

Many thanks to all who have posted. This thread is seriously thought-provoking, with a few smiles as a bonus.

After nearly six months, a custom order nib will soon reach me, crafted with time-consuming, labor-intensive 90 year old metallurgy for a specialized purpose.

It was explained to me that the nib's flexibility and springback will facilitate my purposes involving rapid field sketching.

A customized feed was designed to ensure steady ink flow without excess for what was described as ‘stop and go ink flow’.

Reading this thread places the issues concerning contemporary nib flexibility in context.

It's been the finest FPN read in a spell.

Tom K.

[ReadyFireAim]

  On 3/13/2018 at 10:51 PM, JonSzanto said:

New pen from Additive Pens with a flex nib option attributed to Leigh Reyes:

 

https://instagram.fymq1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/vp/1c416f638b72629b6d00621ff79a0026/5AAAAA72/t50.2886-16/28858438_193702731360967_4953765466175700992_n.mp4

 

To see more information about this pen and the nib (option), go here.

 

I tried something similar...

Post #13 here

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/324910-experiments-with-flex/

It did work but I had a bunch of problems with ink flow because the enlarged slit acted like a large breather hole.

 

The most consistant stainless nib configuration was a NO breather hole like the FPR or Noodler's offerings.

[penwash]

  On 2/12/2018 at 1:46 PM, tonybelding said:

 

Only if you think that writing with a fountain pen requires practice, learning, contemplation, attention, work. But I don't bother with all that. I just pick it up and start scribbling with it. And this is the result…

 

http://zobeid.zapto.org/image/pens/bock_titan.jpg

 

I suggest zooming in on the word "for" there. (You'll find several examples.) There's easily 4X line variation from the F to the R. I didn't use any special, carefully-practiced technique to do that. I didn't even do it consciously. I just wrote the word "for" and that's what came out. That's what a flex pen is supposed to do for you. And yes, that's the Bock Titan.

 

I don't see anything significant enough to account for "4x line variation" in your writing sample. Sorry.

[Fatalpotato]

I myself never owned a vintage flex pen but from the videos I watched on vintage flex it would be a shame to compare the ti nib on my stipula(which I proudly called true flex before seeing what true flex looked like ) to the old Waterman nibs etc.

I totally agree on the comments saying modern nibs being mushy and not flexy. I don't see a point to argue in this regard as writing is very much a personal hobby and everyone is entitled to their own opinions. However it's always a nice thing to see new stuff in fountain pen world, whether I like them or not.

[max dog]

  On 4/8/2018 at 8:10 AM, Fatalpotato said:

I myself never owned a vintage flex pen but from the videos I watched on vintage flex it would be a shame to compare the ti nib on my stipula(which I proudly called true flex before seeing what true flex looked like ) to the old Waterman nibs etc.

I totally agree on the comments saying modern nibs being mushy and not flexy. I don't see a point to argue in this regard as writing is very much a personal hobby and everyone is entitled to their own opinions. However it's always a nice thing to see new stuff in fountain pen world, whether I like them or not.

The Stipula T Flex and modified Pelikan M250 semi flex I have are mushy in comparison to vintage flex, I find the Pilot Falcon and FA quite acceptable as far as snap back goes. Maybe not as perfect as a dip or vintage Waterman 52 flex, but still good. Only weakness with the Pilot offerings are the feed can have trouble keeping up for which there are techniques and specific inks that help. Having a feel for flex nibs (dip pens) also help to make best use of modern flex capabilities and understand the limitations. It's possible to get good results from modern flex pens if you know how to work with them.

Edited April 8, 2018 by max dog

[tonybelding]

  On 4/8/2018 at 3:18 AM, penwash said:

 

I don't see anything significant enough to account for "4x line variation" in your writing sample. Sorry.

 

Did you magnify it? I don't suppose there's any point in putting it under a microscope and putting tiny calipers on it and debating whether it's really 4× variation or only 3.7× or whatever. I was only using this as an example to show that there's a modern, genuinely flexible nib that anyone can buy today off-the-shelf, and it doesn't cost a fortune. If that doesn't look like a flex nib to you, then I can't account for the difference between your eyes and mine.

Edited April 9, 2018 by tonybelding

[Fatalpotato]

  On 4/8/2018 at 10:21 PM, max dog said:

The Stipula T Flex and modified Pelikan M250 semi flex I have are mushy in comparison to vintage flex, I find the Pilot Falcon and FA quite acceptable as far as snap back goes. Maybe not as perfect as a dip or vintage Waterman 52 flex, but still good. Only weakness with the Pilot offerings are the feed can have trouble keeping up for which there are techniques and specific inks that help. Having a feel for flex nibs (dip pens) also help to make best use of modern flex capabilities and understand the limitations. It's possible to get good results from modern flex pens if you know how to work with them.

Agree on pilot offerings, My 912 is as flex as I can handle a flex pen. However I sometimes wish I had the ability to use a vintage flex pen so I could have a very distinct calligraphy style

[Corona688]

  On 4/9/2018 at 11:22 AM, Fatalpotato said:

However I sometimes wish I had the ability to use a vintage flex pen so I could have a very distinct calligraphy style

Nail Bender gets nearly the same flex out of some modern products as old ones - and the 'nearly' isn't always in the antiques' favor, either. A lot of "gold pen" hysteria is myth. Edited April 9, 2018 by Corona688

[ReadyFireAim]

Ranga 3CS-5 / Creaper nib & KWZ Green #3

[pajaro]

  On 2/12/2018 at 1:46 PM, tonybelding said:

 

Only if you think that writing with a fountain pen requires practice, learning, contemplation, attention, work. But I don't bother with all that. I just pick it up and start scribbling with it. And this is the result…

 

http://zobeid.zapto.org/image/pens/bock_titan.jpg

 

I suggest zooming in on the word "for" there. (You'll find several examples.) There's easily 4X line variation from the F to the R. I didn't use any special, carefully-practiced technique to do that. I didn't even do it consciously. I just wrote the word "for" and that's what came out. That's what a flex pen is supposed to do for you. And yes, that's the Bock Titan.

 

This is all you expect out of flex? Not the stuff the people used to write with old flex nibs in days of yore? Well, I could read your writing, but I find most flexible writing very hard to read. So, I have decided that it looks pretty as a work of art, or like a drawing, but I don't want to read it, much less write it. I was able to get that much out of my Esterbrook 9128, and was disappointed, and it was too much work. I am left handed as well. This thread has clarified a lot about flex, and, while I wasn't much interested before, I now realize I want nothing to do with it. Thanks for starting the thread, though. I did get a lot out of the various opinions.

[JonSzanto]

  On 4/9/2018 at 3:34 AM, tonybelding said:

Did you magnify it? I don't suppose there's any point in putting it under a microscope and putting tiny calipers on it and debating whether it's really 4× variation or only 3.7× or whatever. I was only using this as an example to show that there's a modern, genuinely flexible nib that anyone can buy today off-the-shelf, and it doesn't cost a fortune. If that doesn't look like a flex nib to you, then I can't account for the difference between your eyes and mine.

 

No, as a matter of fact, it doesn't look like a flex nib to me, and my eyes are fine. Please find, following, a 30-second example of flexible nibs, which include two vintage and one contemporary, all in fountain pens. Even the last nib (difficult to tell if Platinum or Nakaya) the amount of variation far supercedes what you show. If you want to talk about flex, do so. The example you posted barely, barely qualifies.

 

Edited April 10, 2018 by JonSzanto

[JonSzanto]

Or, you know, keep your ears to the ground for new players, new ideas. Like Regalia Writing Labs...

Edited April 10, 2018 by JonSzanto

[max dog]

  On 2/12/2018 at 1:46 PM, tonybelding said:

 

Only if you think that writing with a fountain pen requires practice, learning, contemplation, attention, work. But I don't bother with all that. I just pick it up and start scribbling with it. And this is the result…

 

http://zobeid.zapto.org/image/pens/bock_titan.jpg

 

I suggest zooming in on the word "for" there. (You'll find several examples.) There's easily 4X line variation from the F to the R. I didn't use any special, carefully-practiced technique to do that. I didn't even do it consciously. I just wrote the word "for" and that's what came out. That's what a flex pen is supposed to do for you. And yes, that's the Bock Titan.

The point Tony is making is that with some modern soft/semi flex nibs available, you don't necessarily have to be an experienced flex writer to exhibit some flair in your natural hand writing and get some enjoyable results. The sample provided show some very nice shading and expressive script that look very attractive. With my soft Pilot custom 74 or Falcon nib, when I write my signature fast without deliberate flexing, I get some pleasant shading and a little line variation that is very unique to my hand. Something no ball point, rollerball, or rigid nib can do.

Edited April 10, 2018 by max dog

[JonSzanto]

  On 4/10/2018 at 5:14 AM, max dog said:

Something no ball point, rollerball, or rigid nib can do.

 

I disagree. It will take me a moment because I have forgotten the name of the person/account, but a number of years ago a very regular poster here on FPN turned over to (primarily) ballpoints and found ways to make expressive lines and widths*, certainly the equal of what little is shown in Tony's example. Compared to all that is available today, that showed both very little variation and very little shading. It does not, in fact, show what I believe a flex nib can do. It may show what a soft or pushed-too-hard nib can do, but there are currently items avaliable that fit the subject of this thread far more.

 

And the only reason I brought this up was to highlight the ludicrous nature of his calling someone else's eyesight and judgement into question.

 

 

* And, I am sorry to say, said correspondent (GClef) is one of the many people who hosted their images at Photobucket and they are no longer showing. All lost in the aether. We can't go down that road for the discussion, I'm afraid...

Edited April 10, 2018 by JonSzanto

[penwash]

  On 4/9/2018 at 3:34 AM, tonybelding said:

 

Did you magnify it? I don't suppose there's any point in putting it under a microscope and putting tiny calipers on it and debating whether it's really 4× variation or only 3.7× or whatever. I was only using this as an example to show that there's a modern, genuinely flexible nib that anyone can buy today off-the-shelf, and it doesn't cost a fortune. If that doesn't look like a flex nib to you, then I can't account for the difference between your eyes and mine.

 

No matter how much I "magnify" it, I still don't see anything that resembles 4x line variation from thinnest to thickest. In fact, I don't see any line variations that would suggest to me that the nib is worth calling "flexible".

 

I suspect there isn't any difference between your eyesight (perception?) and mine. But your definition of flexible is clearly not the same as mine.

 

Glad that you're happy with the flexibility of your Bock nib. I'll stay with my vintage 14K nibs.

[Fatalpotato]

  On 4/9/2018 at 8:38 PM, Nail-Bender said:

IMG_0799.JPG

Ranga 3CS-5 / Creaper nib & KWZ Green #3

I have tried to write with a noodler pen once but don't know if that had the same nib. The amount of force I needed to apply for some line variation was more similar to physiotherapy than calligraphy. Probably that's more due to my lack of ability however I still think that having a similar end product is not important if the process to produce it is so different. The vintage gold nibs are so soft with nice snap back that it's really a shame to compare them to modern noodler nibs

[ReadyFireAim]

  On 4/10/2018 at 11:41 AM, Fatalpotato said:

The amount of force I needed to apply for some line variation was more similar to physiotherapy than calligraphy. Probably that's more due to my lack of ability however I still think that having a similar end product is not important if the process to produce it is so different.

I have never seen anyone setup a noodle's nib properly & if I didn't know how to do it either, I would feel the same way.

 

Also...You have to rotate the nib and tilt the pen as you are making letters to allow the tines to spread.

You can't just squish it down or they can't go anywhere and the force necessary is much greater.

Think about bending just one tine an letting the other one stay straight.

It only takes 1/2 the force to initiate the flex and then the force curve drops off sharply after it is started.

 

The above pen took over 8 hours of work before it performed to my satisfaction.

  On 4/10/2018 at 11:41 AM, Fatalpotato said:

The vintage gold nibs are so soft with nice snap back that it's really a shame to compare them to modern noodler nibs

I prefer snap over flex and gold just doesn't have it.

I can lay into a steel pen and go slowly to make a fat line but I can't get a gold nib pen to go back to hairline and stop gushing.

It just comes down to personal preference.

And lots of practice

Edited April 10, 2018 by Nail-Bender

[tonybelding]

  On 4/10/2018 at 4:23 AM, JonSzanto said:

 

No, as a matter of fact, it doesn't look like a flex nib to me, and my eyes are fine. Please find, following, a 30-second example of flexible nibs, which include two vintage and one contemporary, all in fountain pens. Even the last nib (difficult to tell if Platinum or Nakaya) the amount of variation far supercedes what you show. If you want to talk about flex, do so. The example you posted barely, barely qualifies.

 

 

That video is an example of the contemporary fad, where people take vintage flex pens and abuse them by doing calligraphy they were never designed for, and which in many cases can result in the failure of the nib due to accumulated metal fatigue. As far as I can determine, people who bought fountain pens with flex nibs in the 1920s and 1930s were not using them that way. They bought them because a flexible nib was their preference for normal everyday handwriting. That is what I was attempting to show with my handwriting sample: a modern nib with something close to vintage flex being used in the way those vintage pens were actually used back in the day—let's say, by someone writing a letter to a friend, not trying to show off on YouTube.