Demand For Flex Nibs: Do People Want Them?

[Honeybadgers]

  On 2/12/2018 at 10:48 PM, Nail-Bender said:

IMG_0739.JPG

Brause Rose / Desiderta Icarus & Birmingham Pen Co. Schenley Park Thicket Green.

[Aysedasi]

I prefer 'Your mother was a hamster.....'

[tonybelding]

  On 2/13/2018 at 7:29 AM, JonSzanto said:

 

 

 

This looks to me like a nib that will soon be broken beyond repair, or at least beyond any repair that costs much more than it's worth. (Sonic welders don't come cheap, nor does the Master Jeweler qualified to operate it.)

 

You won't see the metal fatigue until it's too late. Once the crack has started, even if it's very tiny at first, and even if you lighten up on the pen as soon as you notice, that crack will continue to spread through the already-weakened metal.

[Inky.Fingers]

The flex bug comes and goes. New comers are discouraged from flexing, when the old guys say to stop breaking them. So the kid went to the gym and exercise on steely pens, Noodlers Flex.

 

Most found that they can be fancy and be disappointed nevertheless.

 

Truth is good penmanship comes first from studying and practicing and not from some fancy pen.

 

Those that wields the mighty sword, a flex pen, should also exercise skill and deligence. Some sort of honor code...

 

Otherwise put the sword down boy!

[Sailor Kenshin]

  On 2/12/2018 at 6:48 PM, JonSzanto said:

Tony, I just typed a long response and lost it when I went to open a new page - argh!

 

Anyway, I am NOT talking about abusing nibs (please, nothing could have given that impression) nor am I speaking of calligraphy pens. Even the most cursory survey of the history of writing styles would show that there was an era that included many of the great pens - Waterman, Swan, etc - with flexible nibs that were used for correspondence and all styles of writing that used florid scripts, descendents of the styles of writing from earlier dip pens. Only with the advent of increased speed of business and daily life did less-embellished styles of cursive writing rise, along with stiffer nibs. People had work to do and had to write fast and gradually the time and effort for beautiful marks on a page waned.

 

That a new generation is enamored of those styles is not surprising, but to write with those styles with a proper flexible nib does interest people: to add character and personality to their words, to evoke the 'bespoke' and artisan aesthetic that has grown in recent years, and to reclaim some past charm that has been sacrificed on the altar of expedience. 'Soft' and semi-flex nibs can add variation to anyone's writing; for instance, at an outlay of not much more than the Bock nib you can get a soft fine nib on a basic Platinum 3776 pen that shows easily as much variation as the Bock without abuse or damage. Nonetheless, for anyone to truly write in a particular script with wide variation in the letter shapes requires practice: it is an art as much as it is a craft and the time required to make it look like you've seen in good examples takes more time than many people realize. It is at that point that I think people's fascination with flex starts to ebb... too much work.

 

Look at Maricio's site to see not only examples of the writing that can be achieved but pens from that era that are NOT calligraphy pens but simply one choice of pen of the time. Look at modern, younger writers in the style, people like Nikola Pang, who can do not only amazing work with dip nibs and oblique holders but also beautiful work with standard vintage flex pens. Take a look at a friend posting (I think it showed up somewhere on FPN as well) a video of some writing he was doing with a Mabie Todd Swan vintage pen with a lovely nib. These are not things that your Bock or almost any stock nib being made today can do, but it is the kind of eye candy writing that many people, new to the pen game, become enchanted by. When the work required to create such writing is realized, some of the bloom comes off.

Oh, now you're just trying to get me to buy a:

 

soft fine nib on a basic Platinum 3776 pen

 

[ReadyFireAim]

  On 2/14/2018 at 9:13 PM, Aysedasi said:

I prefer 'Your mother was a hamster.....'

Desiderata Icarus / Brause Rose & J. Herbin Perfume Rose ink (on account of Valentine's Day)

 

You guys will kill your thousand dollar pens before I have to replace my three dollar nib.

Just say'n

Edited February 15, 2018 by Nail-Bender

[JonSzanto]

  On 2/14/2018 at 9:37 PM, tonybelding said:

 

This looks to me like a nib that will soon be broken beyond repair, or at least beyond any repair that costs much more than it's worth. (Sonic welders don't come cheap, nor does the Master Jeweler qualified to operate it.)

 

You won't see the metal fatigue until it's too late. Once the crack has started, even if it's very tiny at first, and even if you lighten up on the pen as soon as you notice, that crack will continue to spread through the already-weakened metal.

 

I'm sorry that you say this. I've been using fountain pens for nearly 50 years and I know and understand them quite well. I have seen nibs destroyed, and I have seen nibs that I purchased that have had everything from basic metal fatigue to outright springing of the nib to cracks from the breather hole and at the shoulders (not counting cracks at the base, which can be found often on old nibs and has nothing to do with use).

 

The plain fact of the matter is that this pen is between 80-90 years old, does *not* have damage to the nib, either in terms of cracks or inability to return (loss of spring/metal fatigue). I don't use the pen much or often, certainly less than it has over it's lifetime. The amount of pressure to demonstrate the flex in the photo is negligible; in fact, the difficult nature of using the nib is having enough control to *not* have it flex, as it is indeed very soft and easy to spread the tines - and then snap right back.

 

So say what you will. You don't have this pen or nib, you haven't written with it, and I both restored it and use it occasionally for things, especially cards or notes to loved ones. The nib is not damaged and it won't be as long as it is in my possession and use. I realize you don't know me any more than I know you, but please understand that I have enough background, knowledge and experience to know what I am doing with this nib. No harm has or will be done in spite of the abilities on display.

[JonSzanto]

BTW, as long as my little Wahl ringtop is getting disparaged, here's a shot of a slightly larger pen with a really lovely nib. Wahl-Eversharp certainly had some great nibs on their pens that, when put in order (if out-of-order after all these years) are smooth responsive writers. I don't have an example of the writing with this one, but it is another nib that is in fine shape and the kind of nib that simply isn't being made these days:

[Bo Bo Olson]

Tony said, "I don't think it makes sense to claim there's nothing in between "wet noodle" and semiflex. Those are the extremes."

 

I agree, in I have maxi-semi-flex nibs that need only half the pressure to reach the max of 3 X tine spread vs a light down stroke, than a semi-flex. (In the 3 X tine spread set....regular flex, semi-flex and maxi-semi-flex.)

Outside of Osmia's Supra nibs, those are unmarked and @ 1-5 or so compared to semi-flex of the same maker....Pelikan (3 maxi's out of 10 '50's pens), Geha (1 of 5) or vintage MB's one semi, one semi+, and one maxi.........that semi-flex + is the only one I have where it's in the middle....the rest all seem to clump together as semi or maxi ).

Oamia with the Diamond nib is semi-flex, with the Supra nib is maxi, be that gold or steel and are grand nibs. No other company has the differences marked.

 

I have some 26-7 semi-flex, 16 maxi-semi-flex nibbed pens.....helps to live in Germany and luck out a lot with the maxi's.

 

I use a system of 1/2's in my nib flex system (from regular flex up to wet noodle).....so when it comes to superflex, I have an Easy Full Flex range that needs also 1/2 of a maxi's pressure to reach what ever max that superflex nib has....one only 4 X, a few in the 5-6 X range.

Wet noodle pressure is half that.

 

Of course in superflex one has more pressure variation the more superflex nibbed pens one has. But I see my system also in superflex as a good help starting into superflex. I have one superflex nib that starts out Easy Full Flex then half way through goes Wet Noodle.

 

I also agree someone must know from experience how much tine spread is to be had....with out going bananas..............that is a problem for those new to superflex..

...I don't like the word 'flex', in some call even semi-flex....'flexi'. So will try to make it go the common 7X they see on the net.......and 7 X is rare......ones that are not sprung.

 

I also strive to stay under the max....I have a Pelikan 100n, that will go 5 X....but strive to keep it at 4 X..........same goes for my two 7 X pens ....one Waterman 52 (also have a 52 that seems 'only' a 5 X, so strive t keep that at 4 X also. My Soennecken is my best wet noodle. If I can sweat a lot, I can make that Waterman or the Soennecken write EEF....EF requires thought, so often being slightly heavy handed still they write to an F.....and I only take them to BB and not full out to BBB.

 

Richard Binder has a great article on metal fatigue....I call how to spring your nib.

 

Those who can write are more interested in the thin line and snapback, than how fat my nib writes.

They also practice..... the cheaters.

 

An Ahab has a relatively hard to flex semi-flex rated superflex nib. With the Ahab Mod/Pilot Mod of grinding little half moons in the nib, will take that nib into Easy Full Flex. It sat in a pen box until that was done...then was out for a year before I decided other pens needed play time.

So when modified the Ahab's nice. A good pen then to screw around if if and or when....that is with all modified nibs it finally breaks...you are not out any real money.....so is a good learning tool.

Edited February 20, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[Bo Bo Olson]

"""""I recently read through court documents from 1866. All but one document was written in what looks like the sample letters, Palmer or Zaner, that were posted above the blackboard in American public schools""""

 

Before Palmer there were simple regular cursive business writing learned at latest when one went to a Business Collage for 8-16 weeks to become a stand up 12 hours a day clerk. There was much interest in home after work, out of a book learning to write in a business script; looking for a nice easy stand up job.

Only the well to do, wasted time with Spenserian, and for signatures. Business writing had to be legible, easy to read...instead of puzzling out the whorls and twirls of Spenserian...

 

Business writing was more than likely taught in High Schools for those who's family were well enough off to send the kid to one....so he could be a stand up white collar worker........it was @ 1875-80, that HS was not quite enough to become a clerk. Apprentices of other trades had to have a clear handwriting also.

 

I know this in I'm writing an 1880's western....that happens in Cities....full of Easterners. The East was IN...every three horse town had an opera house.

[tonybelding]

So, I got the email today about the new Conkling Duraflex, with a link to the video that the Goulets produced. They compared it with the Ahab (haha!) and the Falcon, but never made any mention of the Bock Titan. Obviously that irked me a bit. Then I went to the website and found that their first shipment was already sold out. It was there and gone like a flash, apparently. So, it would seem that there is still some interest in flex nibs when they're presented right, and when the pens are cheap enough (under $100). I'll admit to some skepticism about how flexy the Duraflex actually is. I was going to get one and find out, but now they're saying there will be one more shipment (it's a limited edition) in March.

[amberleadavis]

Tony, I found the nib for you when I was at the LA pen show. I met the designer and they are calling it a hyperflex. I will get some pictures uploaded.

[Freddy]

  On 2/21/2018 at 10:47 PM, tonybelding said:

So, I got the email today about the new Conkling Duraflex, with a link to the video that the Goulets produced. They compared it with the Ahab (haha!) and the Falcon, but never made any mention of the Bock Titan. Obviously that irked me a bit. Then I went to the website and found that their first shipment was already sold out. It was there and gone like a flash, apparently. So, it would seem that there is still some interest in flex nibs when they're presented right, and when the pens are cheap enough (under $100). I'll admit to some skepticism about how flexy the Duraflex actually is. I was going to get one and find out, but now they're saying there will be one more shipment (it's a limited edition) in March.

 

Re: Duraflex ersatz flex v Harmonic Steel Nib on Marlen pens such as Pentrace 2016 LE / Aleph pens.... are the same....except the Conklin Duragraph

Duraflex is less expensive..a c/c filler..while the Aleph is a piston filler.

 

Of course this my personal opinion and yours/others will differ.....

 

Fred

[Bluey]

  On 2/21/2018 at 10:47 PM, tonybelding said:

So, I got the email today about the new Conkling Duraflex, with a link to the video that the Goulets produced. They compared it with the Ahab (haha!) and the Falcon, but never made any mention of the Bock Titan. Obviously that irked me a bit. Then I went to the website and found that their first shipment was already sold out. It was there and gone like a flash, apparently. So, it would seem that there is still some interest in flex nibs when they're presented right, and when the pens are cheap enough (under $100). I'll admit to some skepticism about how flexy the Duraflex actually is. I was going to get one and find out, but now they're saying there will be one more shipment (it's a limited edition) in March.

I don't think that's a sign of demand as there was probably only a tiny quantity initially produced to test the market.

I imagine that the album 11:11 by the artist Regina Spektor(who, you would ask) would have also sold out quick as a flash if it were made available again, even when she was an independent. It's not a sign of demand for the wider population, but just an indication of the passion of a tiny number of devouts.

 

That's how it always is.

[Uncial]

2000 pens sold out in less than five hours. I'm not a retailer so I've no idea if this is normal for any new launch model, but it does seem quick.

[ian1964]

2000!....seems a lot to me

[tonybelding]

  On 2/22/2018 at 12:02 AM, Uncial said:

2000 pens sold out in less than five hours. I'm not a retailer so I've no idea if this is normal for any new launch model, but it does seem quick.

 

I think the entire production run is supposed to be less than 2000, so that number would also include the next batch that are supposed to arrive in March, not just the ones that have already been sold. I don't know how those two shipments are divided up.

[JonSzanto]

  On 2/21/2018 at 10:47 PM, tonybelding said:

So, I got the email today about the new Conkling Duraflex, with a link to the video that the Goulets produced. They compared it with the Ahab (haha!) and the Falcon, but never made any mention of the Bock Titan. Obviously that irked me a bit. Then I went to the website and found that their first shipment was already sold out. It was there and gone like a flash, apparently. So, it would seem that there is still some interest in flex nibs when they're presented right, and when the pens are cheap enough (under $100). I'll admit to some skepticism about how flexy the Duraflex actually is. I was going to get one and find out, but now they're saying there will be one more shipment (it's a limited edition) in March.

 

The nib on that pen looks virtually identical to the Marlen Alpha. Those have been available for a few years but not certain if it is still in production (or if the company even exists). A couple of years ago Pentrace had an LE pen made for them by Marlen based on that model and using one of those nibs. Giovanni Abrate had a thread on the pen at the time here on FPN.

 

 

[Driften]

  On 2/22/2018 at 12:18 AM, tonybelding said:

 

I think the entire production run is supposed to be less than 2000, so that number would also include the next batch that are supposed to arrive in March, not just the ones that have already been sold. I don't know how those two shipments are divided up.

 

 

I was able to get one ordered this morning. There will be a total of 1898, but as far as I can tell Goulet had a launch exclusive. It maybe other shops will get some post launch.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Driften

[Corona688]

  On 2/23/2018 at 9:41 AM, Uncial said:

 

  Quote

Now and again the same thing crops up here. People buying ten or twenty bottles of limited edition inks. Perhaps they are enterprising and intend to sell for a fat profit later, I really have no idea why else you would do it. If you remove that possibility then it's just hype and craze.

Sounds like ammunition for the Ink Exchange

Edited February 26, 2018 by Bobje
thread fight continues