Demand For Flex Nibs: Do People Want Them?

[ReadyFireAim]

It’s this having to go so slowly to avoid railroading that drives me so crazy about modern flex nibs. I guess I’m just spoiled by dip nibs.

 

I won't have it but the consequence is that it takes hours to setup properly.

 

My recipe involves a sac pen with a big bore fully open to the back end of a custom made ebonite feed.

I guess they got it right about 100 years ago

 

Other filling mechanisms seem to require a restriction somewhere in the section which causes complications.

Eyedroppers have big bores but have a tendency to burp.

Sac pens seem to be the way to go (a long story about the compensating action provided by a flexible vacuum chamber above the ink column)

 

My best hybrids have a one-way-street feed setup where ink comes down under the nib and air returns to the sac via a small slit under the feed and crossing the slits. (also a long story )

Edited June 19, 2018 by Nail-Bender

[FarmBoy]

It is a very simple task to determine the composition of a gold alloy given a sample of the alloy to test. The test can be done in minutes and is non-destructive to the object being analyzed.

[max dog]

 

On the Pilot FA nibs, these aren't made for the Spencerian-type writing but for Japanese/Chinese characters, where you normally use short strokes. Even then, you don't flex it so much like they do in those demo videos on Youtube. So again (I think) not a problem of lack of knowledge but simply they didn't make it for that purpose.

 

 

The issue with the FA is the inadequate feed period. The nib itself flexes very good, ie requires little pressure to flex, and has excellent almost vintage level snap back. I just dip it occasionally to keep the feed saturated when I want to do heavy flex, and I am able to get near vintage level results compared to my Waterman 52V. Maybe one day when an after market modified #10 size FA feed becomes available I will take care of it, but for now occasionally dipping the nib works fine for me.

[zslane]

Would widening the feed channel a bit help with that?

[steve50]

It’s this having to go so slowly to avoid railroading that drives me so crazy about modern flex nibs. I guess I’m just spoiled by dip nibs.

+1

 

Dip nibs = best flex nibs

[JonSzanto]

Using a dip nib and using a fountain pen with a flexible nib are two different methods, activities and experiences. No one should expect them to be the same.

[max dog]

Would widening the feed channel a bit help with that?

I would think so. Anything to get more ink flowing when the tines flex open will help.

[strelnikoff]

Would widening the feed channel a bit help with that?

 

Yes it would. I have three Aurora 88 Aniversario's, with modern "flex" nibs. We can argue here how flexible are they - three nibs I have are semi-flex to flexible, with one which I'd call properly flexible.

One thing I would or will do - I'll grind down the tip to EF or less, because although these nibs are F (as made) - the line is not as refined as with some vintage fine nibs.

 

In any case - my point is - for two of these pens I had to take the feed out (it is made of ebonite) and a nibmeisted friend of mine had cut out wider channel, removed little "hump" and now the pens are flowing like crazy.

 

These days, when manufacturers claim "ebonite feed" - they still use exactly the same design as for rigid nib pens.

 

So - you can still make it work. Problem is - it has to be done properly, with good tools. Once you start cutting into the channel, you have to be aware of the capillary forces in play as well. Otherwise, cut the channel deep and wide but then - pen can be too wet.

[strelnikoff]

Kudos to whoever did props for Godfather I movie - the meeting between all heads of 5 families (mafia), Vito Corleone is holding Waterman 52 in his hand (it caught my eye two days ago, I have re-watched the movie ) - and it make sense, it's happening few years after the WW2. Anyone caught that?

[diesel]

Kudos to whoever did props for Godfather I movie - the meeting between all heads of 5 families (mafia), Vito Corleone is holding Waterman 52 in his hand (it caught my eye two days ago, I have re-watched the movie ) - and it make sense, it's happening few years after the WW2. Anyone caught that?

The Godfather deserves props (to use that word in another meaning) on many levels, and did get the Oscar for best picture. FFC is an amazing director. Has anyone else pulled the best picture Oscar for both the original and sequel films? I'm fairly certain that the only pair of films in a series to both win.

 

PS - I just read this entire thread on my phone over the course of a few days. It was both entertaining and informative. Thanks to all who contributed.

[sidthecat]

My husband had an assay kit around the house somewhere...a geologist comes with some interesting gear.

[bigalpaca]

The issue with the FA is the inadequate feed period. The nib itself flexes very good, ie requires little pressure to flex, and has excellent almost vintage level snap back. I just dip it occasionally to keep the feed saturated when I want to do heavy flex, and I am able to get near vintage level results compared to my Waterman 52V. Maybe one day when an after market modified #10 size FA feed becomes available I will take care of it, but for now occasionally dipping the nib works fine for me.

 

It's in the works from Flexible Nib Factory.

 

https://flexiblenib.com/store/standard-replacement-feeds/pilot-743-fa-replacement-feed/

"This feed does not fit the size 10 FA nibs used in the Pilot Custom 742 and 912. We will offer a size 10 FA replacement feed shortly."

[SpecTP]

 

It's in the works from Flexible Nib Factory.

 

https://flexiblenib.com/store/standard-replacement-feeds/pilot-743-fa-replacement-feed/

"This feed does not fit the size 10 FA nibs used in the Pilot Custom 742 and 912. We will offer a size 10 FA replacement feed shortly."

 

Wow.. that is amazing. Looking forward to trying one out. Also love the clear feed. Those would be neat replacement in my demonstrators.

[Tseg]

I have a modern flex that always railroads unless totally primed, then I may get a line out of it without railroading. Then I have my vintage Geha that has worked perfectly with any ink I've thrown at it. Never railroading, never dripping. I don't use it all the time, but it is a nice change of pace after using a solid lined nail nib.

 

[Dr.X]

Oh...... How did you get that Goulet fanboyness...... It's quite a misunderstanding that buying from any other pen store is buying from the black market and I highly suspect anyone will produce a modern Conklin counterfeit. I think Vanness had like 8 in stock for about 3 weeks and many other places had them for a while.

 

I just bought an Esterbrook Estie (yes, the new 2018 model) counterfeit from Ebay. So anything is possible.

[woleizihan]

 

I just bought an Esterbrook Estie (yes, the new 2018 model) counterfeit from Ebay. So anything is possible.

 

I'm very interested to see some pictures.

[Dmact]

Yes, because that's what it is. That's what it's supposed to be.

 

 

 

 

You mean with calligraphy pens. Not fountain pens.

 

 

 

 

Yes, with calligraphy pens, not fountain pens. (Or, of course, by subjecting fountain pen nibs to abuse that will ruin them pretty quickly, but surely you didn't mean that.)

 

 

 

 

Destroying vintage flex nibs is wrong. Ruining modern ones is, at the very least, wasteful and foolish. I can and do dismiss that practice, not with a wave of my hand, but with an argument that it's wrong and foolish. There are cheap, disposable dip-pens designed for that kind of thing. Use the right tool for the job!

 

Did people buying fountain pens with flex nibs in the 1920s and 1930s uses them to create elaborate copperplate effects? I don't think so. I think they used them exactly the way I used mine, for everyday writing. A lot of them were people who grew up using flexible dip pens for their everyday writing, the way they learned in grade school, and they wanted something familiar but with the convenience of an ink reservoir.

 

I couldnt even get past this without wanting to slam my head into my desk so hard i think i had a stroke. You do know that copperplate and Spencierian ARE NOT English round hand or secretary or any of the other flourished hands... Right? People never really WROTE with copperplate calligraphy but ASSUREDLY wrote with flex nibs for actual writing... Google "dial-a-flex"

[AAAndrew]

"Copperplate" has become a kind of generic term that encompasses different styles including Engraver's and Engrosser's script as well as Roundhand.

 

As IAMPETH states, "It is very important to note that while all three styles are grouped under the category of ‘Copperplate’, only English roundhand script was a form of handwriting."

 

Copperplate has also become a general term for any of these forms of modulated-line writing. Spencerian does not necessarily have to have modulated lines, but it is a characteristics of all three types of copperplate script. We do have different styles of Spencerian, but they're not nearly as well known as the main types of engraver's, engrosser's and roundhand. (though I doubt many could tell the difference between the three by sight)

 

Most old letters I see, at least in the US, written with steel dip pens actually show very little modulation in line. Here's an example from 1879.

 

 

 

Another from 1874

 

 

 

 

And one from 1872 that does have modulation, but is not any of the "copperplate" scripts. This was a penmanship style developed earlier in the 19th-century in the US. I can't remember the person's name off the top of my head who developed it, but it is a very common script mid-to-late-century.

 

[Dmact]

From the samples I've seen WITH variation, most seem to have been written by women, theres a ledger at my bosses "house" (they're remodeling an old countey highschool from the turn of the century and found it there). It's pretty well full and has several different examples all of which show classic "spencerian" line variations. My father learned penmanship with variation (born in 1941 and went to a one room schoolhouse) but his writing samples outside penmanship never showed it, and samples I've seen of his fathers dont either, my grandmothers hand always looked like it may once have been very "victorian looking" but i never saw a sample of hers from back then.

 

Its important to note that writing then was much like today, there were just more ways a person might choose to style their writing that were "en vogue".

[bobje]

Andrew,

truly illuminating research in 19th century paleography, as always. Thank you.