Demand For Flex Nibs: Do People Want Them?

[tonybelding]

  On 4/10/2018 at 5:39 AM, JonSzanto said:

I disagree. It will take me a moment because I have forgotten the name of the person/account, but a number of years ago a very regular poster here on FPN turned over to (primarily) ballpoints and found ways to make expressive lines and widths*, certainly the equal of what little is shown in Tony's example.

 

But I didn't have to "find ways" to get these results from my Bock Titan. All I had to do was pick it up and start writing.

 

  Quote

Compared to all that is available today, that showed both very little variation and very little shading. It does not, in fact, show what I believe a flex nib can do. It may show what a soft or pushed-too-hard nib can do, but there are currently items avaliable that fit the subject of this thread far more.

 

I'm the one who started this thread, and I was prompted to do so by the nib I used in that writing sample. It's not off-topic; it is the topic, or at least it was intended to be. Maybe I need to start yet another thread and be more explicit about that.

 

  Quote

And the only reason I brought this up was to highlight the ludicrous nature of his calling someone else's eyesight and judgement into question.

 

It was a ludicrous comment, I admit, but it was a response-in-kind, to point up the ludicrous nature of questioning whether an example of classical flex handwriting actually exhibits any flex. My example is what I've assumed for years that we all want to get out of our flex nibs. For you to say it isn't even flex makes me wonder where you're coming from.

[Fatalpotato]

  On 4/10/2018 at 12:02 PM, Nail-Bender said:

I have never seen anyone setup a noodle's nib properly & if I didn't know how to do it either, I would feel the same way.

 

Also...You have to rotate the nib and tilt the pen as you are making letters to allow the tines to spread.

You can't just squish it down or they can't go anywhere and the force necessary is much greater.

Think about bending just one tine an letting the other one stay straight.

It only takes 1/2 the force to initiate the flex and then the force curve drops off sharply after it is started.

 

The above pen took over 8 hours of work before it performed to my satisfaction.

 

 

I prefer snap over flex and gold just doesn't have it.

I can lay into a steel pen and go slowly to make a fat line but I can't get a gold nib pen to go back to hairline and stop gushing.

It just comes down to personal preference.

And lots of practice

 

Yeah the pen I had was probably straight out of Amazon. it's good to see people with the skills and time to get to do very nice things. The differences you stated between gold and steel flex are very interesting. I wonder if my apprehension of gushing is a little different than yours. anyway the heads up and the nice passage of flex is much appreciated, have a nice day 👍

Edited April 11, 2018 by Fatalpotato

[tonybelding]

After more thinking about this subject, I've gradually come to realize what we may have here is a bit of a culture clash… or sub-culture clash… or sub-sub-… whatever. The point is, we have two groups who have developed very different ideas about how and why flexible nibs are used and what results they expect to get from them. And yet, I've been trying to slap the same "flex" label on both of these divergent views. It hasn't worked out so well.

 

Now I would like to humbly propose that we coin some new terms, very deliberately, to distinguish these two approaches.

 

On the one hand, we have the calligraphic or artistic view of flex nibs, in which the goal is to produce dramatic flourishes, such as we sometimes associate with "copperplate" writing. This requires practice, concentration, and a very flexible nib. This is also what we see in so many YouTube videos.

 

On the other hand, we have the more prosaic or mundane use of flex nibs, in which the goal is to add some modest flair or distinctiveness to one's everyday handwriting, in exactly the same way that some people habitually write with a fine stub. This type of usage is, of course, what I have pursued.

 

I try to choose neutral terms, not to imply that one approach is better than the other. Artistic flex? Prosaic flex? A-flex and P-flex?

[Stompie]

  On 4/10/2018 at 5:39 AM, JonSzanto said:

 

said correspondent (GClef)

 

GClef, Ah, there was a man who did amazing things with any sort of writing instrument!

[Stompie]

  On 4/6/2018 at 1:48 PM, Tom Kellie said:

 

A customized feed was designed to ensure steady ink flow without excess for what was described as ‘stop and go ink flow’.

Tom K.

 

 

Tom, it would be very nice if you let us know, and see, how you enjoy the nib once it arrives!

[Corona688]

  On 4/11/2018 at 1:43 PM, tonybelding said:

On the one hand, we have the calligraphic or artistic view of flex nibs, in which the goal is to produce dramatic flourishes, such as we sometimes associate with "copperplate" writing. This requires practice, concentration, and a very flexible nib. This is also what we see in so many YouTube videos.

 

On the other hand, we have the more prosaic or mundane use of flex nibs, in which the goal is to add some modest flair or distinctiveness to one's everyday handwriting, in exactly the same way that some people habitually write with a fine stub.

...and then there's the left-handers, which can't achieve the result of either without nontraditional methods, nontraditional instruments, or both.

[Fatalpotato]

  On 4/11/2018 at 1:43 PM, tonybelding said:

After more thinking about this subject, I've gradually come to realize what we may have here is a bit of a culture clash… or sub-culture clash… or sub-sub-… whatever. The point is, we have two groups who have developed very different ideas about how and why flexible nibs are used and what results they expect to get from them. And yet, I've been trying to slap the same "flex" label on both of these divergent views. It hasn't worked out so well.

 

Now I would like to humbly propose that we coin some new terms, very deliberately, to distinguish these two approaches.

 

On the one hand, we have the calligraphic or artistic view of flex nibs, in which the goal is to produce dramatic flourishes, such as we sometimes associate with "copperplate" writing. This requires practice, concentration, and a very flexible nib. This is also what we see in so many YouTube videos.

 

On the other hand, we have the more prosaic or mundane use of flex nibs, in which the goal is to add some modest flair or distinctiveness to one's everyday handwriting, in exactly the same way that some people habitually write with a fine stub. This type of usage is, of course, what I have pursued.

 

I try to choose neutral terms, not to imply that one approach is better than the other. Artistic flex? Prosaic flex? A-flex and P-flex?

Maybe the second approach(and some of your previous writing samples) would be close to some form of spencerian? A diverging approach sounds very smart btw

[Tom Kellie]

  On 4/11/2018 at 2:14 PM, Stompie said:

Tom, it would be very nice if you let us know, and see, how you enjoy the nib once it arrives!

 

~ Stompie:

 

My understanding is that the pen with the custom nib reached my trusted friend in the eastern United States several days ago.

He sent it via FedEx to another trusted friend in southern China, who hasn't yet received it.

If it makes it through the complex customs inspection process, that friend will ship it to a teaching assistant here, who'll pass it along to me.

Owing to the vagaries of this area, it's uncertain as to timing, but possibly late next week.

I'll post close-up images, handwriting samples, and a frank evaluation after receiving it.

Thank you for your interest Old-Fashioned Modern nib.

Tom K.

[pajaro]

  On 4/11/2018 at 4:38 PM, Corona688 said:

...and then there's the left-handers, which can't achieve the result of either without nontraditional methods, nontraditional instruments, or both.

 

And then there is a left hander who follows this with some interest and occasional amusement. I think it's possible for a left hander to use flex nibs after thinking about the approach. I have flex nibs, but am only interested in them as fines or wxtra fines. Cursive italic adds all the interest I can handle. Interesting topic, though. I hadn't any idea so many things were thought of.

[DrSam]

Are the Noodler's flex nibs all that bad? I have been considering getting one to try. I definately like the look of writing with a flex.

[ReadyFireAim]

  On 4/15/2018 at 8:35 PM, DrSam said:

Are the Noodler's flex nibs all that bad?

[DrSam]

  On 4/15/2018 at 9:06 PM, Nail-Bender said:

IMG_0809.JPG

Thanks. That is what I wanted to know. I will get one. I envy your hand writing

[Corona688]

  On 4/15/2018 at 4:36 AM, pajaro said:

I think it's possible for a left hander to use flex nibs after thinking about the approach.

Well yes, I did mention 'nontraditional methods'. Our grip is mirror image. Try writing flex the same way as right-handers and you'll break your pen and tear your paper from flexing the pen backwards. Go your own way and accent wherever you want, or write mirror image, or tilt the paper a lot, etc, etc. Edited April 16, 2018 by Corona688

[DrSam]

  On 4/16/2018 at 3:19 PM, Corona688 said:

Well yes, I did mention 'nontraditional methods'. Our grip is mirror image. Try writing flex the same way as right-handers and you'll break your pen and tear your paper from flexing the pen backwards. Go your own way and accent wherever you want, or write mirror image, or tilt the paper a lot, etc, etc.

As a "left hander" that uses both hands, I would strongly encourage a left-handed person to try using the other hand sometimes. Use the left hand for everyday fast notes, but try the right hand for slow, deliberate work.

[AAAndrew]

  On 4/11/2018 at 2:10 PM, Stompie said:

 

GClef, Ah, there was a man who did amazing things with any sort of writing instrument!

 

Yes, she can really do some amazing things with a ball point. But good handwriting can still be good with a stick of burnt wood. And bad handwriting still is bad with a $500 pen.

 

If better-looking handwriting is what you seek, improve your skills, then find the right tool to bring out the most in what you have.

[Corona688]

  On 4/18/2018 at 3:18 PM, DrSam said:

As a "left hander" that uses both hands, I would strongly encourage a left-handed person to try using the other hand sometimes. Use the left hand for everyday fast notes, but try the right hand for slow, deliberate work.

Why?

[DrSam]

  On 4/18/2018 at 5:42 PM, Corona688 said:

Why?

As left handers, we develope a style based on different angles. For a ball point or pencil, it is often impossible to tell if something is written with the left hand or right hand. However, the push (left hand) vs. the pull (right hand) of a fountain pen is more obvious, and you can write with a different style if you use your right hand. It is well worth trying.

[Corona688]

Unfortunately, everything I write with my right hand looks like it was graven by an epileptic squid, so I remain uncertain of the benefit.

[max dog]

This video makes me think, perhaps there would be more demand for flex nibs, if the only options today weren't just dip pens, going vintage or hacking a dip nib into a fountain pen. The available options scare off newbies getting into the fountain pen hobby with an initial interest in flex and writing wonderful flexy script. If a pen manufacturer could produce an affordable and reliable modern flex fountain pen off the shelf new that was easy to use for a newbie, it would generate the demand.

Edited April 28, 2018 by max dog

[ReadyFireAim]

  On 4/28/2018 at 9:43 AM, max dog said:

This video makes me think, perhaps there would be more demand for flex nibs,

I believe she is using a Hunt 101.

There is a very small difference between it and a Leonardt Principal EF.

 

I prefer the Hunt 101 also because there have been so many quality control issues with the tine tips on the Leonardt.

Both are a "catchy" but the LP is even more so.