Kung Te Cheng...or Equivalents

[truthpil]

 

When it comes to tinkering pens I prefer this Himalaya over anything I've tried from Noodler's except, funny enough, the Charlie Pen. But I will say, I'm completely comfortable taking the Himalaya out as an EDC, where with the Charlie Pen I am not and prefer to keep it at home, which is why I'd like to get my Himalaya squared away where I'm as happy with it's performance with KTC as I am with my Charlie's performance right now.

 

One thing I'm also hoping for is to be able to to use the Himalaya as a pen that can lay day a very dark line of Scabiosa and KWZ GummiBerry. I've always been looking for that wet of a pen with a finer nib ever since I tried Scabiosa in my Eco Broad I'd use to prime the feed to it's full saturation to get that beautiful saturated Scabiosa.

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But I'll also mention I did order some ink samples from Birmingham Pens because I wanted to try out Allegheny Observatory Celestial Blue, which looked kind of similar to Kung Te-Cheng.

 

https://www.birminghampens.com/products/birmingham-allegheny-observatory-celestial-blue-5ml-ink-sample

 

Birmingham inks are known to be on the grayer side where Noodler's are on the more vibrant side which I prefer. I personally haven't tried any yet.

 

I concur about the Himalaya, its simple construction makes tinkering quite easy and there's so much versatility with that nib and feed size. The seal on the cap is also quite good and I had no problem throwing it around in a background the other day.

 

I can guarantee you that you'll get full saturation with Scabiosa and GummiBerry if you use the FPR flex feed. I first tried out my Guru with flex feed (same nib and feed as Himalaya) using KWZI IG Blue #1 and the ink came out so saturated that it looked black until you smeared it. I had to put it in another pen to see the normal color. That wet feed is an iron-gall ink's best friend; the combination is perfect because IG inks don't bleed and feather as easily as dye-based inks, thus they can handle the increased flow.

 

Dang it, I think I just talked myself into getting 2 more Himalayas...one for KTC and another for ESSRI and similar IG inks.

[elippman]

A few updates:

 

I finally inked up a couple of the dollar pens and love them! They're the qalam nibbed pens and they do write very smoothly for me as a lefty. They put out a TON of ink, though. I have KTC in one and Diamine Earl Grey in the other. I do tend to have hard starts with the KTC, but once it starts flowing, it really flows! Now, I think the paper is the issue. I can't get anything that looks like what Amber posted above. I've used Tsubame Fools Notebooks, Kokuyo Campus Notebooks, a Black-and-Red Notebook, and various Rhodia pads (all with 80 gsm paper). So, I feel like my dollar pen and sheaffer school pen are putting out enough ink (the Himalaya too, probably). I'm just not getting the look I want, which is closer to the way it looks wet. I know that's always hard to pull off, but some inks are closer than others, and KTC seems to have a big difference between the wet and dry looks. Maybe Tomoe River paper or some kind of glossy printer paper is the only way? I've avoided TR in the past because I'm left-handed and have heard that ink takes forever to dry on TR paper, but might be willing to give it a try in a small sampling. Are there any quick and easy ways to do that? I know it's not a cheap paper. Also, would it be possible to get a better look on higher-quality Rhodia or Clairefontaine (same, right?) paper? If I'm not mistaken, "weight" (80 gsm v 90) is just about bleed-through and doesn't really impact color, so what would be best to write on with one of my super-wet writers in order to get that deep indigo look?

[truthpil]

I'm glad the qalam nibs are working for you! The cheapest option might be to try some glossy printer paper since it's designed to take a lot of ink.

 

I don't know if there is a western equivalent, but here in China the cheapest paper for students seems to have a high clay content or something (it's grey colored) that makes it perfect for KTC which just dries on top with pure saturation. Other inks like Herbin just bead up on the surface and won't write with the same paper.

[IndigoBOB]

You know, there is an ink I'm testing out, that of course isn't Kung Te-Cheng, since it's such a unique ink, but I just ink up a Jinhao x750-Goulet.Black.M with Birminham Observatory Celestial Blue.

 

When swiping a wet patch of this ink there's clearly a Blue and Purple component landing the color into the Indigo range where Kung Te-Cheng hits the bullseye on.

 

I don't know the level of water resistance yet. I will test it, but it marries perfectly with the pen I inked it in, which doesn't happen very often.

 

It's a lightly more... how do I describe this... maybe a tad grayer, but it doesn't mute the color much at all, which is a surprise. Birmingham inks have a signature grayness to them, like Noodler's have a signature Vibrancy to theirs, but this one, if I'm not mistaken, seem to have a sheen to it.

 

I'm very impressed with it, but this also raises apprehension lol since most inks I've tried that work this well are typically not water resistant.

[elippman]

Please keep providing feedback on this ink. I'm interested as well, but Birmingham inks are quirky. In my experience with Waterfront Dusk and Ft. Pitt Brickhouse Sepia, I loved the colors, but they seemed to not behave very well on anything but good quality paper. I honestly like the mutedness/matte feel of their colors. I just tend to need something a little more flexible, given that so much of my writing has to be on crappy paper.

 

Then again, maybe there was just some residual water in the pens from when I had flushed them ahead of putting those inks in and that's what caused the feathering that they seemed prone to.

[inkstainedruth]

Please keep providing feedback on this ink. I'm interested as well, but Birmingham inks are quirky. In my experience with Waterfront Dusk and Ft. Pitt Brickhouse Sepia, I loved the colors, but they seemed to not behave very well on anything but good quality paper. I honestly like the mutedness/matte feel of their colors. I just tend to need something a little more flexible, given that so much of my writing has to be on crappy paper.

 

Then again, maybe there was just some residual water in the pens from when I had flushed them ahead of putting those inks in and that's what caused the feathering that they seemed prone to.

 

My experience with the Birmingham inks have been hit or miss. I loved the original (more sepia toned) version of Shadyside Walnut Street Brown -- later batches seem to be a LOT redder, but Nick had also switched companies that he was getting the dye components from (the original was possibly from the UK, and then I heard that later batches are coming from Germany). Smithfield Street Truss Blue is gorgeous and well behaved, and sufficiently unsaturated enough that I didn't think twice about putting it in a Parker 61 with a capillary filler. Schenley Park Thicket Green is a nice medium green that doesn't lean teal or be too bright. I have in my ink inventory notes that I've tried Waterfront Dusk, but it isn't ringing any bells, so I'll have to check my review journal to see what it was like (I think I bought it in the hopes that it would be the better behaved replacement for KTC -- but that wasn't the case....

And USS Requin Navy? That one was not well-behaved at all.... :-( Really disappointing (of course my impressions may be clouded by the fact that I tried it over Christmas, sitting in a hotel room by myself with a really bad respiratory virus -- so bad that I didn't get to see my in-laws from the West Coast; I didn't want ANYONE to get what I had...).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[ENewton]

 

My experience with the Birmingham inks have been hit or miss. I loved the original (more sepia toned) version of Shadyside Walnut Street Brown -- later batches seem to be a LOT redder, but Nick had also switched companies that he was getting the dye components from (the original was possibly from the UK, and then I heard that later batches are coming from Germany). Smithfield Street Truss Blue is gorgeous and well behaved, and sufficiently unsaturated enough that I didn't think twice about putting it in a Parker 61 with a capillary filler. Schenley Park Thicket Green is a nice medium green that doesn't lean teal or be too bright. I have in my ink inventory notes that I've tried Waterfront Dusk, but it isn't ringing any bells, so I'll have to check my review journal to see what it was like (I think I bought it in the hopes that it would be the better behaved replacement for KTC -- but that wasn't the case....

And USS Requin Navy? That one was not well-behaved at all.... :-( Really disappointing (of course my impressions may be clouded by the fact that I tried it over Christmas, sitting in a hotel room by myself with a really bad respiratory virus -- so bad that I didn't get to see my in-laws from the West Coast; I didn't want ANYONE to get what I had...).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

Waterfront Dusk is my favorite of the eight Birmingham inks I have tried so far, although Lilac Wind runs a close second.

 

What was wrong with the navy? I purchased the whole sample set with the idea of passing some along to friends and was going to give a certain person all the blues, but I don't want to give someone an ink that doesn't behave well.

[inkstainedruth]

What was wrong with the navy? I purchased the whole sample set with the idea of passing some along to friends and was going to give a certain person all the blues, but I don't want to give someone an ink that doesn't behave well.

 

On cheap absorbent paper (Piccailly sketch pad) I had a lot of bleedthrough. On better paper (Rhodia) it dried so slowly I had to blot it. It is also a fairly wet ink.

If you can live with those issues, it is a very nice color, and is fairly water resistant. I'm thinking of trying it in a much drier pen and seeing if the issues I had with it are at all mitigated.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

ETA: I had hoped that Requin would be a better behaved replacement for KTC, but it isn't -- there's none of the purple component as far as I can tell.

Edited March 10, 2018 by inkstainedruth

[ENewton]

 

On cheap absorbent paper (Piccailly sketch pad) I had a lot of bleedthrough. On better paper (Rhodia) it dried so slowly I had to blot it. It is also a fairly wet ink.

If you can live with those issues, it is a very nice color, and is fairly water resistant. I'm thinking of trying it in a much drier pen and seeing if the issues I had with it are at all mitigated.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

ETA: I had hoped that Requin would be a better behaved replacement for KTC, but it isn't -- there's none of the purple component as far as I can tell.

 

Thank you, Ruth.

[elippman]

Ruth,

 

I tried Waterfront Dusk on your earlier recommendation, thinking it might be similar to KTC. In the end, I did find it to be a very nice color that, to my eye, was a dead ringer for KWZ Grey Plum--a color that I really like but have not bought a bottle of. I was then hoping that WD would satisfy my urge to pay more for the KWZ bottle, but it isn't as well behaved. I'm still not done experiment with it yet, though. I could have just been working with water in the nib unit, or something, that made it feather and spread more than I would have liked. As much as I like the colors of Birmingham inks so far, I have yet to see one behave well on copy paper.

[IndigoBOB]

Please keep providing feedback on this ink. I'm interested as well, but Birmingham inks are quirky. In my experience with Waterfront Dusk and Ft. Pitt Brickhouse Sepia, I loved the colors, but they seemed to not behave very well on anything but good quality paper. I honestly like the mutedness/matte feel of their colors. I just tend to need something a little more flexible, given that so much of my writing has to be on crappy paper.

 

Then again, maybe there was just some residual water in the pens from when I had flushed them ahead of putting those inks in and that's what caused the feathering that they seemed prone to.

 

 

It has low water resistance on Tomoe River, which is known for letting inks slide off. it was still legible, but faint. It didn't write well on cheaper paper.

 

But I do like the ink a lot, but since the water resistance is slow I'm less inclined to go further than this sample for now, but if water resistance isn't necessary for you, it is a very lovely ink.

[truthpil]

Well folks, despite the aforementioned calamity, I finally bit the bullet and bought one of the last 4.5oz bottles of KTC left in China. I'll keep trying it out in the TWSBI ECO and Dollar 717q, but I'll also try out the Charlie pen it usually comes with (however, this batch is so old it might have one of the original preppies).

 

Have people really been using KTC in Charlies with no burping or ink bombs dropping on the paper like is common with cheap eyedroppers?

[truthpil]

(duplicate post)

Edited March 22, 2018 by TruthPil

[IndigoBOB]

I use mine with an FPR M nib that lays down a healthy medium line on the thicker side of medium, very saturated, but I don't get burping.

 

I don't recall getting burping using the original nib either unless it was loosely installed.

 

My Charlie can, however, get that initial fluctuation of inkflow especially during colder days, where the inkflow increases, the line becomes a litter thicker, and then subsides to the normal line width after maybe about a paragraph...

 

It's such a simple eyedropper.

 

EDIT: And what do you know, after a page of writing (A5 size) I whipped the pen around real fast and it burped a little on the page. I swear that usually never happens lol, but dam# is this not the most beautiful ink I have in this Pen combo on Tomoe.

The color reminds me of this little piece of art:

Edited March 22, 2018 by IndigoBOB

[truthpil]

Mmmm indigo delight!

 

Yeah, I had a decent experience with an FPR M nib in my ECO, but there was occasional skipping which I blame on the pen.

It sounds like a Charlie + FRP M nib combo works well for this ink, so I'll try that out.

[IndigoBOB]

I hope it works alright for you. Let us know what you think?

[truthpil]

I hope it works alright for you. Let us know what you think?

 

Day 2 using KTC in the Charlie pen it came with was an epic fail. It worked ok when I filled it yesterday using the "eyedropper trick" when filling. However, today was another story. The morning started off with the writing too wet in the first few lines of my journal, but then some of the ink dried out on the nib which helped slow down the flow to something manageable. Then I tried to use it to take roll in an afternoon class. Let's just say my attendance sheet for that class has some massive blobs that should have been single dots. It burped so badly that the ink went through the paper and I was rushing to rub the ink stains off the desk before it dried forever.

 

I didn't give up on the Charlies just yet. I screwed the full barrel of KTC onto another Charlie I haven't used yet. This time I didn't do the eyedropper trick to fill the feed with ink, but I got same problem of a page full of ink spots after writing just a few words. Looks like Charlies aren't going to work at all for my KTC!

Edited March 28, 2018 by TruthPil

[IndigoBOB]

 

Day 2 using KTC in the Charlie pen it came with was an epic fail. It worked ok when I filled it yesterday using the "eyedropper trick" when filling. However, today was another story. The morning started off with the writing too wet in the first few lines of my journal, but then some of the ink dried out on the nib which helped slow down the flow to something manageable. Then I tried to use it to take roll in an afternoon class. Let's just say my attendance sheet for that class has some massive blobs that should have been single dots. It burped so badly that the ink went through the paper and I was rushing to rub the ink stains off the desk before it dried forever.

 

I didn't give up on the Charlies just yet. I screwed the full barrel of KTC onto another Charlie I haven't used yet. This time I didn't do the eyedropper trick to fill the feed with ink, but I got same problem of a page full of ink spots after writing just a few words. Looks like Charlies aren't going to work at all for my KTC!

 

Oh Noooo . I'm so sorry. I can't help but feel responsible from recommending this!

 

Did you heat set the nib?

 

That's a nightmare!!!

 

Oh, KTC, why must this beauty be so difficult to harness! The beauty of such a high saturation doth come at a cost.

 

Even for myself, I am getting tired of using the Noodler's Charlie with such a skinny section. I'll keep my pen inked even through hand fatigue, but I feel myself orienting towards having to find other Ebonite-feed-pens to use it with.

 

My Himalaya works, but I can never find a Fine nib that I like and the Mediums are so gushy...

 

Oh, I might have to venture back into Noodler's, maybe settle for trying with an Ahab or dare to find a Konrad that can swap in #6 Jowo's fine that just wouldn't have that nice feel of a medium...

 

..., but that's a road I'm putting on the Fritz to pursue more viable daily writers for black inks that are less recalcitrant. That's a tangent I won't go down here.

 

My sincere apologies .

[truthpil]

Haha no need to apologize, KTC comes with a Charlie pen that it is supposed to be used with. I didn't do any heat setting, so maybe that would have helped. This just affirmed my longstanding animosity towards Noodler's pens.

 

I finally decided to get out one of my 1950s Sheaffer "School" pens with a nice medium nib and filled up an old cartridge with what was left in the Charlie. Several folks on here have mentioned successfully using these pens with KTC and now I can see why. Absolutely perfect flow with enough saturation to bring that glorious indigo shading out and no hard starts after being capped a while. I think this combo may be a winner!

 

By the way, you might be able to solve the gushing problem by putting a JoWo #5 medium nib on your Himalaya.

Edited March 28, 2018 by TruthPil

[IndigoBOB]

Haha no need to apologize, KTC comes with a Charlie pen that it is supposed to be used with. I didn't do any heat setting, so maybe that would have helped. This just affirmed my longstanding animosity towards Noodler's pens.

 

I finally decided to get out one of my 1950s Sheaffer "School" pens with a nice medium nib and filled up an old cartridge with what was left in the Charlie. Several folks on here have mentioned successfully using these pens with KTC and now I can see why. Absolutely perfect flow with enough saturation to bring that glorious indigo shading out and no hard starts after being capped a while. I think this combo may be a winner!

 

By the way, you might be able to solve the gushing problem by putting a JoWo #5 medium nib on your Himalaya.

 

 

I feel less guilty now lol. People experiencing such Charlie issues typically haven't heat set the pen.

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Scheaffer school pen, eh? I can see why you may not have heat set the Charlie lol. That may just go on my list of pens to get. I'm interested in further feedback, obviously with the concern of nib dry out...

 

They appear quite affordable on Ebay... I might have to do some research into these. I'm ignorant about vintage pens.

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You know, my Eco-Fine nib on the Himalaya was too wet, but honestly, that was a problem nib, and I may give it another go.

 

I can honestly foresee myself sticking with the Charlie for a while. It is narrow and limits me to short to medium writing sessions, but I'm OK with that for now since with the FPR-Medium, heat set ; ), does write with just the right smoothness and feedback I love regardless of the ink.

 

I may have to try this Scheaffer pen. I will never stop looking for the perfect pen for KTC, and then I'll look for more lol.

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Also, I do have HoD inked up in my Himalaya with a Fine nib, and it's fantastic and I've been using it as an EDC along with my Pilot.Metro.M-Take-Sumi. I plan on writing a positive review on the Himalaya in the next week or two.

 

Black ink is my second favorite ink behind KTC. I know it sounds boring, but let's just say I love a woman dressed in black as well ; )