Kung Te Cheng...or Equivalents

[elippman]

Maya Lapis and Monteverde Sapphire are quite different in real life. ML appears as a relatively conservative dark blue in most situations. My one frustration with it is that it's hard to get the complexity of the ink to show through without a magnifying glass and just the right light. I've not found an ink to top it as darkish (but not too dark) blues go. The deep purple undertones really make the ink, though.

 

MS on the other hand bounces off the page as one of the best blurple inks I've seen. Both colors are very present with a slight edge toward the blue.Because I grade a lot with these inks, MS has been much more useful in terms of screaming "look at me" on a student's paper, but in a way that won't hurt anyone's eyes.

Edited June 24, 2018 by elippman

[inkstainedruth]

@ indigoBOB --

Thanks for posting the video link. This may be one I have to try, although in the video I wasn't seeing the nuances of purple/indigo that KTC gives me (the general problem with swabs). It helped that the guy in the video was comparing it to a couple of inks I've already tried (Tsuki-yo and KWZI Chicago Blue).

Of course I've already just bought a bunch of ink, including some vintage inks yesterday afternoon; and have a whole buttload of inks already that I've never tried..... Other than than the vintage bottles from yesterday, I mostly got full bottles of inks I like -- back up bottles of a couple and a full bottle of D'A Aubergine (not remotely a match to KTC, of course, but a nice purple in its own right). And just one sample.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[IndigoBOB]

 

Maya Lapis and Monteverde Sapphire are quite different in real life. ML appears as a relatively conservative dark blue in most situations. My one frustration with it is that it's hard to get the complexity of the ink to show through without a magnifying glass and just the right light. I've not found an ink to top it as darkish (but not too dark) blues go. The deep purple undertones really make the ink, though.

 

MS on the other hand bounces off the page as one of the best blurple inks I've seen. Both colors are very present with a slight edge toward the blue.Because I grade a lot with these inks, MS has been much more useful in terms of screaming "look at me" on a student's paper, but in a way that won't hurt anyone's eyes.

I appreciate the description.

 

The Maya Lapis sounds like something I'm going to have to try a sample of... right up my alley.

 

@ indigoBOB --

Thanks for posting the video link. This may be one I have to try, although in the video I wasn't seeing the nuances of purple/indigo that KTC gives me (the general problem with swabs). It helped that the guy in the video was comparing it to a couple of inks I've already tried (Tsuki-yo and KWZI Chicago Blue).

Of course I've already just bought a bunch of ink, including some vintage inks yesterday afternoon; and have a whole buttload of inks already that I've never tried..... Other than than the vintage bottles from yesterday, I mostly got full bottles of inks I like -- back up bottles of a couple and a full bottle of D'A Aubergine (not remotely a match to KTC, of course, but a nice purple in its own right). And just one sample.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

Your welcome.

 

I see what you mean when he compares them to other inks.

 

It's strange because the video from AndersonPens shows an almost different color ink:

 

But when you look at Mike Matteson's video the chromatography shows a healthy amount of purple, and the ink appears much deeper.

 

That's why samples are so good.

 

I'm kind of in the same boat with inks, too. I recently purchased a bottle of Iroshizuku Take-Sumi as well as D.A. Aubergine checking a couple of inks off my list I loved the samples of. You're right about Aubergine: It holds it own. That was one of the first ink samples I ever tried and it stayed on my list ever since.

[truthpil]

Any thoughts about the Monteverde Ocean Noir that is compared with Yonaga in the video?

They look pretty close in the video (although Ocean Noir is a little more blue and less sheen) and Monteverde is dirt cheap.

[inkstainedruth]

 

I appreciate the description.

 

The Maya Lapis sounds like something I'm going to have to try a sample of... right up my alley.

 

 

Your welcome.

 

I see what you mean when he compares them to other inks.

 

It's strange because the video from AndersonPens shows an almost different color ink:

 

But when you look at Mike Matteson's video the chromatography shows a healthy amount of purple, and the ink appears much deeper.

 

That's why samples are so good.

 

I'm kind of in the same boat with inks, too. I recently purchased a bottle of Iroshizuku Take-Sumi as well as D.A. Aubergine checking a couple of inks off my list I loved the samples of. You're right about Aubergine: It holds it own. That was one of the first ink samples I ever tried and it stayed on my list ever since.

 

 

Ironically, I just got a bottle of Aubergine in the mail, after trying a sample (it took awhile because it kept being out of stock places). And Take-sumi (a partial bottle) recently, in trade for some ink I didn't like; had been holding out on it, simply because I don't use black inks much.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[elippman]

I haven't tried Ocean Noir, but it looks like a nice shade. It's a bit light for me as I see it online though. The bottles are very cheap, though, so it doesn't kill anyone to try, I suppose. The weird thing about the Monteverde Noir series is that they really don't look all that noir to me (unlike, for instance, the Cult Pens "deep dark" series). I also tend to see them (my own personal prejudice) as somehow less vibrant and impressive than the gemstone series (in that range, I also really like Fireopal and Charoite).

 

You know, come to think of it and speaking now about the other end of the expense spectrum, the ink that brought me to both Maya Lapis and Kung Te Cheng was Faber Castell's Cobalt. There was a while when that captured my imagination, but I could never pull the trigger on a whole bottle (although I think I ended up with at least two samples). There's something about that color that falls into this vicinity.

[truthpil]

I haven't tried Ocean Noir, but it looks like a nice shade. It's a bit light for me as I see it online though. The bottles are very cheap, though, so it doesn't kill anyone to try, I suppose. The weird thing about the Monteverde Noir series is that they really don't look all that noir to me (unlike, for instance, the Cult Pens "deep dark" series). I also tend to see them (my own personal prejudice) as somehow less vibrant and impressive than the gemstone series (in that range, I also really like Fireopal and Charoite).

 

You know, come to think of it and speaking now about the other end of the expense spectrum, the ink that brought me to both Maya Lapis and Kung Te Cheng was Faber Castell's Cobalt. There was a while when that captured my imagination, but I could never pull the trigger on a whole bottle (although I think I ended up with at least two samples). There's something about that color that falls into this vicinity.

 

 

Thanks for the comments. After taking a few more looks at Ocean Noir, I agree with you about it being too light. I'll just stick with my Kung Te-Cheng + NoNonsense M combination. I don't know if I mentioned it, but it was really easy to clean KTC out of the NoNonsense after being in it for a couple weeks. Even the cartridge was just a little purple tinged.

[truthpil]

Well, I bought myself a bottle of Yonaga on a whim because I'm in the States and was totally freaking out that I could buy all these inks during the July Fourth Sales hahaha.

 

It's a lovely ink with a lot of character, but definitely no KTC. On Clairefontaine paper I don't get any purple at all...just a deep blue-black with some nice shading in a flex nib.

 

The weird thing is that the ink on my fingers made this crazy rainbow of blue-purple-pink when I tried to wash it off. Like with most complex Japanese inks, I think the paper is what really determines what this ink will look like.

 

It's a top notch ink and deserves the Sailor name, but will never substitute for my KTC.

[IndigoBOB]

I know I'm dipping into sacrilege here, and soon I'll be getting a new fountain pen to wash off this waywardness ,

 

But I have this soft spot for Sakura Gelly Rolls 08 Royal Blue pens . Now, I must say it has been a hit or miss with these pens OOTB ,

 

but when I have a good one it's actually my fountain pen alternative/back up next to a Parker Jotter and rOtring Tikky, both loaded with Easyflow9000's of course.

 

I would have thought Royal Blue to be that sky-blue-like color, but this one seems to be a deep bluish indigo, referring to a different type of royal blue, I guess a japanese or asiatic royal blue, which, if I'm not mistaken, Kung Te-Cheng was mimicking with unprecedented beauty. But I can only surmise.

 

But the ink in the Gelly Rolls is permanent : And there was a time this past week where my Pilot Prera ran out of ink and I needed to write down something quick, so I went into my two pen case, pulled out a Gelly to avail... and when I use it it makes me think of KTC every time... close, but not quite... so I thought I'd mention that.

 

But I will say that I will be getting a new addition to my fountain pen rotation, and once I do that, I plan on inking my Pilot Prera with KTC and seeing how that performs.

I didn't like my Pilot Prera when I first bought it a year ago, but I kept it because I recognized it was a good pen when posted, though I stowed it away because at the time I wasn't a fan of having to post it every time to use it and that's still a slight pain, but the pen posted has simply become a very comfortable writer, even a favorite, and it functions without any problems, and has given me an appreciation for pocket pens happy to have one that suits all my needs, but I will say that using only the pocket pen/this prera right now does make me yearn for a pen I don't have to post every time.

 

I stopped using my other fountain pens because most of them were Jowo-steel-nibbed, and I've fallen out of favor a bit with how rigid the nibs are. I still like Jowo mediums which are like a staple for me, but I had an experience with a softer nib that was like an epiphany and I could write much more naturally for the first time with a fountain pen and I just didn't want to back. The experience reignited my enthusiasm I first had, though waned eventually until now.

 

I look forward to hopefully having an EDC KTC pen with the Prera, and I'll let you know in a couple weeks how that goes/ or maybe sooner because I don't know if I'll be able to resist this idea for long despite how great my Prera is working with HOD right now. Hopefully the pen I will be purchasing then won't be sold out

[inkstainedruth]

Right now, I have KTC running in a Charlie eyedropper. So far it's behaving well, and hasn't gotten cloggy. But we'll see what happens when I go to refill the pen (right now it's about 2/3 full).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[elippman]

I'm still hit-and-miss with consistent flow with this ink. That 90s-era Sheaffer school pen is still the best performer by far. 2 No Nonsense pens later (F and M), and I still can't get decent flow out of either of them, at least on a consistent basis. It's funny because the look like they have the same nib and feed as the school pen, but they don't have near the flow. I suppose every pen is different. The Medium No Nonsense occasionally hits a stride after a bit, but still trying to get it to work consistently (it always starts up immediately, but then skips as I write, as if the flow is too slow to keep up with my generally slow handwriting). I've about given on trying to force this ink through a fine nib.

[PJohnP]

I'm still hit-and-miss with consistent flow with this ink. ... I've about given on trying to force this ink through a fine nib.

 

You might look at this thread :

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/338689-does-ethylhexylglycerin-change-ink-flow-characteristics-i-think-not-based-on-surface-tension/

 

I've personally had great success "moderating" the difficult tendencies of KTC with these sort of approaches... There's a lot to read there with the various references, but it's overall proven to be a good set of practices for me.

 

YMMV, of course.

 

 

 

John P.

[IndigoBOB]

I'm still hit-and-miss with consistent flow with this ink. That 90s-era Sheaffer school pen is still the best performer by far. 2 No Nonsense pens later (F and M), and I still can't get decent flow out of either of them, at least on a consistent basis. It's funny because the look like they have the same nib and feed as the school pen, but they don't have near the flow. I suppose every pen is different. The Medium No Nonsense occasionally hits a stride after a bit, but still trying to get it to work consistently (it always starts up immediately, but then skips as I write, as if the flow is too slow to keep up with my generally slow handwriting). I've about given on trying to force this ink through a fine nib.

 

 

That sucks : (

 

I appreciated your feedback.

 

You know, I was thinking of trying something different, though I'm not in a hurry. There's a Pilot Precise V7 pen that can take fountain pen ink. I haven't tried it yet so don't quote me on it lol:

 

https://www.jetpens.com/Pilot-V7-Hi-Tecpoint-Cartridge-System-Rollerball-Pen-Medium-Point-Black/pd/12290

 

I was going to try these if my Pilot Prera didn't work out well.... In fact, I'll give that a try and fill it up right now with KTC. It has an inner cap and I have had good luck with ink flow in Pilot Metro's filled with KTC.

[elippman]

 

You might look at this thread :

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/338689-does-ethylhexylglycerin-change-ink-flow-characteristics-i-think-not-based-on-surface-tension/

 

I've personally had great success "moderating" the difficult tendencies of KTC with these sort of approaches... There's a lot to read there with the various references, but it's overall proven to be a good set of practices for me.

 

Thanks for the link. Way back at the beginning of this thread, one of the commenters claimed considerable success using Organic Studios Cuddles' Flo Plus with KTC. I managed to get hold of a couple bottles (it's somewhat eternally unavailable at Vanness), so the stuff is hard to get. I've had only limited success with it, though. It might free things up a bit, but I haven't had the success he has. I don't know if I can find the ingredients to it, but I'll look and see how they square with those listed at this link.

[IndigoBOB]

 

Thanks for the link. Way back at the beginning of this thread, one of the commenters claimed considerable success using Organic Studios Cuddles' Flo Plus with KTC. I managed to get hold of a couple bottles (it's somewhat eternally unavailable at Vanness), so the stuff is hard to get. I've had only limited success with it, though. It might free things up a bit, but I haven't had the success he has. I don't know if I can find the ingredients to it, but I'll look and see how they square with those listed at this link.

 

 

I've only had my Prera inked with KTC for a short time, but I'm getting those obnoxious hard/semi dry starts and the feed is fully saturated from filling it through the nib and section.

 

Unlike HOD, the KTC dries on my Prera's nib with my fan on. Even just a light breeze dries it out. I concede in thinking that the ink needs a wet feed, ebonite, for optimal use, like those with noodler's pens.

 

I wish Nathan Tardiff worked harder to perfect this ink because he hit the bullseye on color and permanence, but I think KTC is still a work in progress I hope he completes someday .

 

I might try those V7-FP pens, but I'm not in a hurry to spend more on experimentation to try and get this ink to work for me.

-------------------

 

I tried the Kodak flow stuff, followed instructions on fpn, and it works, but I find this ink, when it flows, at least with the bottles I have, it flows and spreads pretty fat for me. That's been the other challenge for me.

 

Even with no surfactant applied I can get this ink to flow especially with a Jowo nib in an FPR himalaya, but the line becomes so fat that I'd have to use a Jowo Fine, and I don't like going that fine; too rigid and too toothpicky for me, especially with a jowo steel nib...

 

... at that point I prefer noodler's walnut and even just Noodler's black or OMB, which don't spread.

 

Or if I need to write finer I use Sailor Kiwa-Guro in a Medium nib which typically tames line width for me.

Edited August 20, 2018 by IndigoBOB

[PJohnP]

 

Thanks for the link... It might free things up a bit, but I haven't had the success he has. I don't know if I can find the ingredients to it, but I'll look and see how they square with those listed at this link.

 

I found that KTC needed dilution as well as surfactant adulteration. The dilution was a bit tricky in that I didn't want to lose the fine colour depth.

[truthpil]

I'm still hit-and-miss with consistent flow with this ink. That 90s-era Sheaffer school pen is still the best performer by far. 2 No Nonsense pens later (F and M), and I still can't get decent flow out of either of them, at least on a consistent basis. It's funny because the look like they have the same nib and feed as the school pen, but they don't have near the flow. I suppose every pen is different. The Medium No Nonsense occasionally hits a stride after a bit, but still trying to get it to work consistently (it always starts up immediately, but then skips as I write, as if the flow is too slow to keep up with my generally slow handwriting). I've about given on trying to force this ink through a fine nib.

Sorry and surprised to hear about your flow problems with the No-nonsenses! The first medium nibbed one I got flowed perfectly with KTC but the tipping was defective and scratches. I just got another with a medium nib that is smooth but haven't yet tried it out with KTC. Will keep y'all posted. I guess not every inexpensive Sheaffer is created equal.

[truthpil]

 

I look forward to hopefully having an EDC KTC pen with the Prera, and I'll let you know in a couple weeks how that goes/ or maybe sooner because I don't know if I'll be able to resist this idea for long despite how great my Prera is working with HOD right now. Hopefully the pen I will be purchasing then won't be sold out

 

 

 

I've only had my Prera inked with KTC for a short time, but I'm getting those obnoxious hard/semi dry starts and the feed is fully saturated from filling it through the nib and section.

 

Unlike HOD, the KTC dries on my Prera's nib with my fan on. Even just a light breeze dries it out. I concede in thinking that the ink needs a wet feed, ebonite, for optimal use, like those with noodler's pens.

 

 

I had the same experience. On some thread on here a year or two ago I did a weeklong test of KTC in a Prera and it didn't turn out well. I would get hard starts if left unused for more than a day. Additionally, the dry combination of a Prera with Pilot Plumix italic nib reduced the ink to a mere uninteresting purple, although if you are using a Pilot nib that is particularly wet (sometimes that happens with their medium nibs) you might get better results.

 

Based on my experience, I'd just keep using HOD in your Prera...that sounds like a perfect EDC combination! Whenever I don't feel like bringing my Wancher 3-pen leather case with me, I'll either carry a Kaweco Sport or the Prera direct in my pocket. They are tougher than they look.

 

 

I stopped using my other fountain pens because most of them were Jowo-steel-nibbed, and I've fallen out of favor a bit with how rigid the nibs are. I still like Jowo mediums which are like a staple for me, but I had an experience with a softer nib that was like an epiphany and I could write much more naturally for the first time with a fountain pen and I just didn't want to back. The experience reignited my enthusiasm I first had, though waned eventually until now.

 

 

Uh oh....sounds like you've entered the world of softness and flex... very dangerous on the wallet! Generally I prefer my stiff JoWo nibs for fast notetaking and work-related writing, but vintage flex for everything else. Fpnibs.com can custom-make a super-flex 14k JoWo nib; combine that with KTC and you might just vanish into ethereal bliss.

[IndigoBOB]

 

 

I had the same experience. On some thread on here a year or two ago I did a weeklong test of KTC in a Prera and it didn't turn out well. I would get hard starts if left unused for more than a day. Additionally, the dry combination of a Prera with Pilot Plumix italic nib reduced the ink to a mere uninteresting purple, although if you are using a Pilot nib that is particularly wet (sometimes that happens with their medium nibs) you might get better results.

 

Based on my experience, I'd just keep using HOD in your Prera...that sounds like a perfect EDC combination! Whenever I don't feel like bringing my Wancher 3-pen leather case with me, I'll either carry a Kaweco Sport or the Prera direct in my pocket. They are tougher than they look.

 

 

 

Uh oh....sounds like you've entered the world of softness and flex... very dangerous on the wallet! Generally I prefer my stiff JoWo nibs for fast notetaking and work-related writing, but vintage flex for everything else. Fpnibs.com can custom-make a super-flex 14k JoWo nib; combine that with KTC and you might just vanish into ethereal bliss.

 

 

I should have known then lol

 

I had some luck with the Pilot Metropolitan with KTC a while back which brought on wishful thinking recalling such.

 

The HOD-Prera-M is a lovely combo, taming the thicker line HOD can write.

-------------

Aaaaahh, you know too well ... I have been enquiring into the softer side of nibs. Like you say, I am motivated by prices to be more careful .

 

The Pelikan M20x is my next big choice for a pen. I tried one at Richard Binder's station at a pen show and I liked it immediately. I didn't get much time with it, but was happy to learn its steel nib is on the less rigid side and what I'm looking for.

 

I may check out the Diplomat Magnum. I heard its nib has a nice spring, but the narrower grip makes me apprehensive, but I think I can work with it. It's still thicker than a pencil.

 

I may try a titanium nib and swap it into my Ranga.

I have a Platinum Black PTL-5000a-M on the way

--------------

I'll always have a place in my heart for Medium Jowo nibs. I plan on getting a Ranga 3-shortened in the upcoming seasons along with others with Jowo's, but I want to expand beyond that threshold I've fully explored.

[inkstainedruth]

Well, an update on the KTC/Charlie combo. It burped into the cap a couple of days ago.... Sort of a mess around the threads as a result. I've cleaned up as well as possible with paper towels, and refilled the pen. So far so good -- it doesn't seem to have clogged the nib and feed at all.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth