Kung Te Cheng...or Equivalents

[elippman]

Hah! +1 for that Sheaffer School Pen with a medium nib! Yes, oddly enough, no matter how long I leave mine sitting on the desk, it always seems to write as soon as I pick it up. It's weird. There's something about the feed, I think. I'm also using it with an old cartridge. There's someone on here who's committed to using KTC in an eye-dropper-filled Sheaffer School Pen, but I'm afraid of this ink in an eye-dropper. I don't want to worry constantly about how much air is in the barrel.

 

I too love the Himalaya. They have some decent pens, but the Himalaya is their home run pen. I just jumped in on their grab bag and ended up with a Jaipur. I could see that pen working well also. It has a nice, large section, so would be easier for long writing sessions. I have had luck with the EF nib on my Himalaya concentrating KTC well enough to get a nice, reliable color. When I tried an F nib, the ink lightened a bit, which I didn't want, but the EF did well.

[truthpil]

Hah! +1 for that Sheaffer School Pen with a medium nib! Yes, oddly enough, no matter how long I leave mine sitting on the desk, it always seems to write as soon as I pick it up. It's weird. There's something about the feed, I think. I'm also using it with an old cartridge. There's someone on here who's committed to using KTC in an eye-dropper-filled Sheaffer School Pen, but I'm afraid of this ink in an eye-dropper. I don't want to worry constantly about how much air is in the barrel.

 

So far this is the only pen I've tried that never​ hard starts with KTC. Uncapped it this morning and it immediately wrote! I didn't even have to make a couple strokes to get the ink flowing normally as I've had to do with the TWSBI ECO, Dollar 717, and Charlie. I agree that it must have something to do with the feed. I could be wrong, but it does look and feel like ebonite. I've always hated eyedropper pens, so the cartridge was a no-brainer for me. It just removes the whole issue of my hand heating up the barrel and having to constantly be concerned with what kind of physics stunts are going on inside that massive compartment of ink. If this works out well for a week or so, as I suspect it will, I'm going to try KTC in one of my Esterbrook cartridge pens. The nib and feed design is similar, so if that combination works, it means there's an endless array of Esterbrook nib units that could be used with KTC. I just need to get some more Esterbrook cartridges to use for refilling.

[truthpil]

 

Scheaffer school pen, eh? I can see why you may not have heat set the Charlie lol. That may just go on my list of pens to get. I'm interested in further feedback, obviously with the concern of nib dry out...

 

They appear quite affordable on Ebay... I might have to do some research into these. I'm ignorant about vintage pens.

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You know, my Eco-Fine nib on the Himalaya was too wet, but honestly, that was a problem nib, and I may give it another go.

 

I can honestly foresee myself sticking with the Charlie for a while. It is narrow and limits me to short to medium writing sessions, but I'm OK with that for now since with the FPR-Medium, heat set ; ), does write with just the right smoothness and feedback I love regardless of the ink.

 

I may have to try this Scheaffer pen. I will never stop looking for the perfect pen for KTC, and then I'll look for more lol.

 

If the Charlie is working for you, then there may not be any need to invest in one of these old Sheaffers. They are small pens, just as thin as the Charlie but also shorter. They are also known to have feedbacky nibs, so you won't get a glassy smooth writing experience. I'm a little disappointed in the slight drag I feel when writing even on good paper, but I'm willing to overlook that just because the ink flow is so perfect and creates the color I want without skipping, bleeding, or other annoyances.

[IndigoBOB]

 

If the Charlie is working for you, then there may not be any need to invest in one of these old Sheaffers. They are small pens, just as thin as the Charlie but also shorter. They are also known to have feedbacky nibs, so you won't get a glassy smooth writing experience. I'm a little disappointed in the slight drag I feel when writing even on good paper, but I'm willing to overlook that just because the ink flow is so perfect and creates the color I want without skipping, bleeding, or other annoyances.

 

 

I appreciate the heads up. FPR.M.Chalie's good enough for now.

[truthpil]

After using the Sheaffer 305 M school pen with KTC extensively the past few days, I can affirm that this is the best combination I've tried. The nib writes just wet enough to avoid skipping and hard starts while also bringing out the ink's full potential. At the same time it is just dry enough to prevent feathering which often happens with KTC. My only complaint is that slight pressure is required to achieve full saturation and the drag on the paper is annoying. If I want to write in a way that really shows off the ink, my hand is tired after one full page of writing. This makes the combination poor for long writing sessions.

[elippman]

I agree, although my school pen is clearly different from yours. It's a medium nib, but a very smooth writer. It's feed is also quite clearly plastic. I bought it at an office supply store in the 1990s. It is definitely the most reliable pen for KTC though--it puts out a lot of ink, but doesn't overwhelm the way the Qalam nib sometimes does. Plus, it can sit for a long time and then start right up, which makes it pretty unique.

[truthpil]

I agree, although my school pen is clearly different from yours. It's a medium nib, but a very smooth writer. It's feed is also quite clearly plastic. I bought it at an office supply store in the 1990s. It is definitely the most reliable pen for KTC though--it puts out a lot of ink, but doesn't overwhelm the way the Qalam nib sometimes does. Plus, it can sit for a long time and then start right up, which makes it pretty unique.

 

Interesting, I bet yours is from a different generation than mine. Can you post a pic of the kind you have? Mine is one of the original 1950s version with the rounded barrel and cap, like this one:

 

 

I'm curious to see what model you have so I can hunt one down. If mine was just a tad smoother and a tad wetter, it would be absolutely perfect as a dedicated KTC pen. My current near perfect combination has already pushed my newest vintage specimen out of the rotation this week. I just can't get enough of seeing this ink on the page!

 

I totally agree about the qalam nib on the Dollar pen. It can be too wet at times and then the insufficient cap seal can lead to drying out between writing sessions.

[elippman]

See pics way back on page 2 of this thread. Mine are a bit dark and grainy, but you'll get the idea. It's basically the one cheap, plastic Sheaffer that was in every stationery store in the 80s and 90s when I was growing up. I had one in high school that had a yellow body and metal cap. It was almost unusable on that paper because it had such a wet medium nib (bleeding and feathering all over the place). I used it anyway though.

Edited March 30, 2018 by elippman

[truthpil]

Thanks, I forgot who had posted about the school pens.That looks like an 80s model.

[elippman]

Also see eharriet's pic on the same page. He has a slightly older model with a fine nib. I think the fine nib has possibilities. It's so hard to find the perfect balance with this ink. My only complaint about my medium nib is that the line is wide enough to spread a bit on the paper's surface, which in turn allows it to lighten a bit. Eharriet's seems to get that balance with a fine nib on his Sheaffer. I think I may have gotten closest with an FPR EF on a Himalaya.

[truthpil]

Also see eharriet's pic on the same page. He has a slightly older model with a fine nib. I think the fine nib has possibilities. It's so hard to find the perfect balance with this ink. My only complaint about my medium nib is that the line is wide enough to spread a bit on the paper's surface, which in turn allows it to lighten a bit. Eharriet's seems to get that balance with a fine nib on his Sheaffer. I think I may have gotten closest with an FPR EF on a Himalaya.

 

I wonder if the nib widths differ between the different models of school pens. My 1950s medium definitely writes wider than my 1950s fine, but doesn't spread out the ink much. Perhaps that's because the nib writes a little dryly with KTC. I like the line width with this combination, I just wish the nib was a little wetter and smoother. Since the nibs and feeds on the inexpensive Sheaffer pens seem to be very similar, I wonder if a NoNonsense might also be a good option for KTC. All mine only have italic nibs, so maybe I can find a regular medium nib and try it out. I definitely prefer the greater girth of the NoNonsense pens.

[truthpil]

These old Sheaffers are turning into the best option for KTC. I took the 1/3-full cartridge from my Sheaffer school pen and put it in a 1980s Sheaffer NoNonsense with fine italic nib. Immediate wet flow with buttery smooth writing. Because it's a 1.0mm italic nib, the ink spreads out a little too much to keep the deep saturation and it leans more on the purple side, but there is still some shading even on this cheap 60gsm notepad. Flow is absolutely perfect and no problem with drying out on the nib. The pen writes immediately every time it's uncapped. Now I need to get a standard medium NoNonsense nib and I think my perfect KTC pen will be good to go.

 

[elippman]

Yeah, I see what you mean about the italic spreading out the ink too much. I am sold on my Sheaffer School Pen as the dedicated KTC pen. Oddly enough, it still starts right up. I go days at a time without using it. It also puts down the most saturated line, and the spreading problem is paper-dependent. I just looked up the Sheaffer No Nonsense, which I do not have and have no prior experience with, but it looks like an old workhorse-style pen. I might start trolling around for one. From what I read, nibs are interchangeable on those and they range widely from Fine to Italic. Given that it's vintage, though, I don't know if you'd be able to track down the nibs alone anymore. It would be nice to have such a functional pen with a range of nibs that could be swapped in and out, though.

[IndigoBOB]

Your pen findings are quite positive news : )

 

I've had to do a lot of writing on the go... it hits you where it hits you... especially creative writing, and I have my B6 Nanami Cafe with me, but am always worried about the rain, and the idea of finding a good pen for this unmovable ink has been coming to mind more.

 

I do use Noodler's black in a Pilot Metro, and Old Manhattan in a Wing Sung 3008 (am surprised how much I prefer using 3008's as EDC's), but after doing a water test with KTC, I was impressed to say the least. Just absolute confidence and peace of mind and I like it's formal color, which is good for not getting distracted by the ink, almost like a "blank-slate mood" of a color, yet having character and without being drab.

[elippman]

A while back, I wrote on a piece of paper with the Sheaffer School Pen and did a couple tests. It was a small enough piece of paper that I could submerge it in a cup full of water for several days. Then I let it dry and submerged it in the same cup full of vinegar and left it for about a week. I didn't have any bleach or anything like that around, so I figured water and vinegar would be enough for my purposes. Here's what it looks like now.

[amberleadavis]

Tell us how you are going to test it! We all want to see! Or at least I want know.

[truthpil]

Yeah, I see what you mean about the italic spreading out the ink too much. I am sold on my Sheaffer School Pen as the dedicated KTC pen. Oddly enough, it still starts right up. I go days at a time without using it. It also puts down the most saturated line, and the spreading problem is paper-dependent. I just looked up the Sheaffer No Nonsense, which I do not have and have no prior experience with, but it looks like an old workhorse-style pen. I might start trolling around for one. From what I read, nibs are interchangeable on those and they range widely from Fine to Italic. Given that it's vintage, though, I don't know if you'd be able to track down the nibs alone anymore. It would be nice to have such a functional pen with a range of nibs that could be swapped in and out, though.

 

Yep, this No Nonsense has the same characteristics as the School Pen. Always writes immediately, something I haven't found any other pen able to do with KTC. As soon as I can justify the purchase without incurring the wrath of wife, I'll be getting one of these as the "perfect" KTC pen, even the pen's color matches:

 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sheaffer-NO-NONSENSE-M-Nib-Fountain-Pen-Made-in-Usa-NOS-Transparent-Violet/162945336849?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D50963%26meid%3Db1b2b937b2794497930405808823550c%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D162945336849%26itm%3D162945336849&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Aec9d0af1-3864-11e8-b135-74dbd180a340%7Cparentrq%3A931e8afb1620aa11f608cc7ffffde055%7Ciid%3A1

 

Your pen findings are quite positive news : )

 

I've had to do a lot of writing on the go... it hits you where it hits you... especially creative writing, and I have my B6 Nanami Cafe with me, but am always worried about the rain, and the idea of finding a good pen for this unmovable ink has been coming to mind more.

 

I do use Noodler's black in a Pilot Metro, and Old Manhattan in a Wing Sung 3008 (am surprised how much I prefer using 3008's as EDC's), but after doing a water test with KTC, I was impressed to say the least. Just absolute confidence and peace of mind and I like it's formal color, which is good for not getting distracted by the ink, almost like a "blank-slate mood" of a color, yet having character and without being drab.

 

I hear you. I'm a writing professor and am always concerned that whatever random ideas I scribble down will survive on the paper until I can use them for some project or at least get them typed into the computer for future use. That means, even though many bulletproof inks drive me nuts with flow issues (too wet or too dry), can be difficult to find the right pen for, and are annoying to clean out of pens with stains galore, I tend to use them more than anything else because I need that permanence.

 

How are you liking Old Manhattan now with the 3008? Is it better or worse than regular Noodler's Black for your needs?

[IndigoBOB]

 

Yep, this No Nonsense has the same characteristics as the School Pen. Always writes immediately, something I haven't found any other pen able to do with KTC. As soon as I can justify the purchase without incurring the wrath of wife, I'll be getting one of these as the "perfect" KTC pen, even the pen's color matches:

 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sheaffer-NO-NONSENSE-M-Nib-Fountain-Pen-Made-in-Usa-NOS-Transparent-Violet/162945336849?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D50963%26meid%3Db1b2b937b2794497930405808823550c%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D162945336849%26itm%3D162945336849&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Aec9d0af1-3864-11e8-b135-74dbd180a340%7Cparentrq%3A931e8afb1620aa11f608cc7ffffde055%7Ciid%3A1

 

 

I hear you. I'm a writing professor and am always concerned that whatever random ideas I scribble down will survive on the paper until I can use them for some project or at least get them typed into the computer for future use. That means, even though many bulletproof inks drive me nuts with flow issues (too wet or too dry), can be difficult to find the right pen for, and are annoying to clean out of pens with stains galore, I tend to use them more than anything else because I need that permanence.

 

How are you liking Old Manhattan now with the 3008? Is it better or worse than regular Noodler's Black for your needs?

 

 

Yes I always carry a Parker.Jotter-Schmidt.Easyflow9000 on me clipped into a sidebound spiral memo book, but I do take any opportunity to write in my Nanami Cafe. The experience is so inviting to writing.

 

Going through the challenges of permanent inks as you describe accurately... so true, I've had the OM inked in a 3008 from my initial inking/trials and it is basically a solid black ink that writes well.

 

Noodler's black is one of the best behaved permanent inks (I've been avoiding smearing using my Nanami Ink blotter, inked in a Pilot Metro-M) and works more appropriately in more of my pens, where Noodler's Heart of Darkness is fickle, laying down an overly thick line or having the feeling of writing too dry leaving the nib edgy at times...

 

...then there's OM, which is more reliable than HoD, having a more consistent/appropriate line, but far more saturated that Noodler's Black so that can cause a a relatively slightly drier flow, but still, overall, it's a very solid black ink IMO, that I actually enjoyed much more in the sunlight, that complemented the ink and brought out its hue to a very nice potential.

 

I have found that the writing experience of OM is closer to that of Noodler's black. OM is a cooler (cold) black than Noodler's Black. OM's notable pleasantness in sunlight even reinforced my desire to purchase a bottle of Iroshizuku Take-Sumi (Medium water resistance, cool black), which I'd like to use when writing at home, not exposed to the elements besides my potential klutziness with paper towels in reach. I really like the characteristics and writing experience of Take-Sumi.

 

I will say that OM is a very saturated ink and has proven to be higher maintenance than Noodler's Black IMO and IME. I did leave the 3008-Old.M unwritten with for 2 weeks and it did dry up requiring cleaning of the feed using Goulet Pen Flush. I did the same with Noodler's Black for even longer and there was no such problem.

 

Thus, OM is an EDC ink IMO.

[elippman]

That No Nonsense does look nice, and reminds me of the color. I saw it on eBay. I saw another one that was a kind of matte blue that made me think of this ink as well given its matte affect.

 

I don’t have any Wing Sung pens. I like the looks of the one 3008s that I just looked up on Amazon. I don’t have much frame of reference for Chinese pens. Tell me they’re better to write with than Jinhaos! Those things are built like a tank, but the nibs just don’t strike me as fun to write with at all. They kinda feel like they’re made out of tank material. Are the Wing Sung 3008s substantially different in terms of writing experience? They look a decent price on Amazon, but I still have quite a few empty Dollar pens sitting around and am not sure if I should add any more of that type of pen.

[elippman]

Some people really like J. Herbin Peale Noir. I don’t have it myself, but I’ve heard it’s quite well behaved, permanent, and dark black.