Kung Te Cheng...or Equivalents

[elippman]

Hello all,

 

I've recently become a bit obsessed with Kung Te Cheng (the ink). I can't get over the color, and even had an old sample of it, which I poured into my FPR Muft eyedropper. Well, as you can imagine, it coated the barrel and is not the easiest ink to get flowing, but isn't terrible either. I can get it writing and keep it writing for a bit, but my sample is running out. I am considering buying a bottle, but given all the problems people seem to have with it, I don't know if that's a good idea. I see it now comes in a 3-oz bottle as well, but that's still a lot of ink. For those who have experience with it, how has this ink held up over time? Has anyone had a bottle for a few years that they continue to use? Also, if you do use it, what kind of pen does it work best with? I'm thinking at the moment that the wettest pen I have (which this ink seems to call for) is my Kaweco Sport. Thoughts?

 

If this ink isn't worth it, what out there is similar? I suppose the uniqueness of the look is inextricably tied to the qualities that make it appealing, so there's no way to get the one without the other...? I like blurples in general, and have Monteverde Sapphire, Eclat de Saphir, Kobe Maya Lapis (fav), and a couple others, but this one still looks unique. Is it?

[Morphling27]

I've never used the ink myself, but from my understanding it's pretty unique because of all of what you said. I'm sure some mixologist around here may be able to approximate the ink.

[georgeb]

You could mix some distilled water with it and it would last longer and flow better.

[DrDebG]

I am a major blurple lover. There is likely a post somewhere here about great blurple inks, probably started by amberleadavis.

 

I do not care for the formulation of most Noodler's inks, so I avoid them. So, I have not used Kung Te Cheng.

 

My favorite blurples are:

 

Diamine Bilberry

Sailor Jentle Nioi Sumire

Pilot Iroshizuku Ajisai

Callifolio Ultramarine

J. Herbin Eclat de Saphir

[elippman]

Thanks for the tips. I have Nioi Sumire and Eclat (as mentioned above), but none of the others. People keep recommending Bilberry to me. I might just have to try a sample of that.

[inkstainedruth]

Kung Te Cheng is a pretty unique ink. I have yet to find an ink that is remotely close in color (and of course there is *nothing* out there that is anywhere near as "everything proof"). Unfortunately, it's also so thick that it can get cloggy very easily. Some people don't like it because they say it's more like paint than ink....

I don't have all the inks suggested so far -- but Nioi Sumire is too purple, and Eclat de Saphir is both too blue (plus, it has pretty much zero water resistance). I had hopes for Kyoto TAG Soft Snows of Ohara, but it is also too purple; one of the interesting things about KTC is that it isn't *really* purple (at least my batch) -- it's really a dark indigo with purple undertones.

And If you dilute the ink with distilled water, all you end up with is something more purple (ask me how I know...).

Interesting to know that it's now in smaller bottles. Of course I have two of the 4-1/2 oz bottles, and will probably *never* use up both of them.... (I've had the first one for a couple of years and think that it's only down maybe a third at most... ). But it's one of the few inks that will write on those plastic "Post-it" flags -- and iron gall inks are not nearly as UV resistant....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[elippman]

Since you're down a third, you must have at least filled up more than once with it, right? Any advice on the type of pen that works best?

[ENewton]

I used my sample of Kung Te Cheng in a Dollar 717i pen, and it flowed beautifully. The only problem was that it stained the pen, which is transparent.

 

You might also consider Sailor Shigure. It isn't as as blue as Kung Te Cheng, but it isn't distinctly purple either.

 

I tried diluting Kung Te Cheng to see more purple in it, but to no avail.

[inkstainedruth]

I've pretty much only used it in one Noodler's Konrad (one of the resin ones). I tried it one time in the Ebonite Konrad, to see if part of the clogging issues had to do with the fact that the resin was somewhat porous (and not completely air tight), but the results were kinda the same. First fill is generally fine, but refills tend to get cloggy, and of course refilling with distilled water instead of ink dilutes the color pretty badly.

Another potential substitute was Akkerman Dutch Masters Ruisdael's Stormachtig Blauw, but that's more of a straight blue-black (although worth getting just on its own merits). Next up to try, I think, is Birmingham Pens Waterfront Dusk.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[ravantra]

I have been using KTC for years. It can clog some pens but I find that a slight dilution prevents that. I have a had great luck with a clear TWSBI with a M nib, and have had it continuously inked for 3 years. When it get low I refill and add a couple drops of water. I have also used this ink in a pair of Pilot 74's with M & B nibs.

 

The only pen I have had trouble with is a F Edison.

 

My favorite ink.

[displacermoose]

My favorite KTC pen is a Sailor Sapporo. It is a very wet fine. I use KFC regularly for both the color and the qualities. It is georgous and NOTHING will budge it off paper. It really just needs the right pen. In the wrong pen it is a nightmare. I think your impulse to put it in a wet pen is right on, but it must also have a very good cap seal. Photoflo is also a big help when you want to expand the pens it will work it.

[inkstainedruth]

My favorite KTC pen is a Sailor Sapporo. It is a very wet fine. I use KFC regularly for both the color and the qualities. It is georgous and NOTHING will budge it off paper. It really just needs the right pen. In the wrong pen it is a nightmare. I think your impulse to put it in a wet pen is right on, but it must also have a very good cap seal. Photoflo is also a big help when you want to expand the pens it will work it.

 

How much does Photoflo dilute the color? I've never used it, and the closest local photo supply only has it in larger amounts (I seem to recall it being around a pint).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[FLZapped]

I have been using KTC for a while and I can't say that I find it any thicker than any other ink. I did find it has one unique property. I use paper vellum for archival writing and with its hard surface, if you accidentally get an oily fingerprint on it most inks will bead up at that spot. KTC writes right through it.

 

I will say that if I leave it in a pen that has one of those choke-proof caps, too long, I'll have to put a drop of water on the nib. However, I find that with other inks, too to varying degrees.

 

My bottle is 4.5 oz., which was the only way it came for quite some time.

 

-Bruce

[hinky]

I was also looking for an alternative to KTC recently. Can't get it where I'm from, unless I want to pay a lot for shipping. I settled for Sailor Jentle Nioi Sumire and J. Herbin Eclat de Saphir. It's not exact, but it's close enough. I also got a bottle of Diamine Imperial Blue but I haven't tried it yet. Since you already have Eclat de Saphir, you should give Nioi Sumire a try. It's an equally nice blurple, but still no KTC.

[elippman]

Nioi Sumire was my latest ink purchase. I do like it, but it's very much not the same. I think I may have to give KTC a more extended try. It's interesting to me that, despite all the caveats related to it, it still has a 4.5-star rating on Goulet pens with well over a hundred reviews. Compare that to Whaleman's Sepia, another intriguing but problematic ink, with its 3.9-star rating (similar number of reviews). Clearly there's something about KTC that people find worth the hassle.

[eharriett]

KTC is one of those inks I keep in a pen at all times. It is in a Sheaffer School Pen. Because of work issues, I hadn't grabbed it for over two weeks and now I have to clean the nib out. However, before that, almost a year in that pen and three or 4 fills (eyedroppered) and I have had ZERO issues with it. No clogs, no burps. I blame the latest issue on the lack of use for a couple of weeks.

 

I add a single drop of Organics Studio Cuddles Flo to each fill to give it a touch more viscosity. Not sure if that is what does the trick or not, but I do it anyway.

[elippman]

Cool. I'm glad to hear another success story. I hadn't heard of Cuddles Flo, so I'll look that up. I don't know Sheaffer School Pens, either, unless they're those old straight plastic pens with a metal cap that I used to carry around in high school in the 90s. I think I still have one of those around somewhere.

[displacermoose]

 

How much does Photoflo dilute the color? I've never used it, and the closest local photo supply only has it in larger amounts (I seem to recall it being around a pint).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

I have not noticed any dilution. It takes only a drop or two for a sample vial to make it much better behaved. I managed to get a 4 oz bottle which will last me forever. If you want to try some send me a PM with your address and I'll share. Edited November 16, 2017 by displacermoose

[dcwaites]

 

How much does Photoflo dilute the color? I've never used it, and the closest local photo supply only has it in larger amounts (I seem to recall it being around a pint).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

As displacermoose said, you only use a teensy tiny amount of Photoflo, so it doesn't affect the colour at all.

Most inks will take at least 10% dilution with water without any visible change in colour, and I find 15% works with some Noodler's inks to improve dry time on hard papers like Nu:Elite, without any change in colour.

[eharriett]

Cool. I'm glad to hear another success story. I hadn't heard of Cuddles Flo, so I'll look that up. I don't know Sheaffer School Pens, either, unless they're those old straight plastic pens with a metal cap that I used to carry around in high school in the 90s. I think I still have one of those around somewhere.

Cuddles is probably quite similar to Photo flo but put out by Organics Studio rather than Kodak.

 

And the Sheaffer school pens are the cheap plastic pens that kids used in school from the 60's (?) to 80's. They're great for inks you want to have at the ready at all times but don't want to vouch for what a Noodlers ink would do to a pen (like KTC). It is a perfect match, in my opinion.