Hi-End Pens Are A Lot Of Trouble

[alanshutko]

I've had a bad reaction since my then-wife had the original Visconti Van Gogh and the cap cracked. The later editions redesigned the cap so it wouldn't happen, but I have always worried about potential design problems with Visconti since. (Which is a shame, because they make absolutely gorgeous pens.)

[Precise]

To partially undermine my original post, I got to thinking that my most-reliable Bexleys were all bought spanking new as were all my moderately priced pens. But all but one of my Omas pens were bought used.

 

But in support of my original post, the three defective Visconti Power Filler pens, the Omas that leaked around the piston rod, and the Conid were all purchased brand new.

 

And, as I've hinted before, expect more problems with a Ferrari than with a Ford. At one time Mercedes Benz was listed as the least reliable German brand, by a German Auto magazine. The CEO of Mercedes responded to that by blaming his customers. He said, "Our customers demand the latest technology, which is unfortunately less reliable".

 

My latest thinking is that I should stop buying used, high-end pens. I'm thinking they are for sale because their prior owners didn't love them.

 

Alan

Edited September 4, 2018 by Precise

[WolvertonMountain]

  On 2/7/2018 at 7:29 AM, max dog said:

And what is a high end pen anyway?

 

I believe I have found the answer to your question...

Opened eBay this morning, searched for "fountain pens" by price, and accidentally clicked on High to Low instead of Low to High with results beginning with:

David Oscarson Diamond Seaside Fountain Pen - One of a Kind

Brand New $755,000.00 or Best Offer +$111.68 shipping

and

DUNHILL-NAMIKI SAKURA ROSE LE MAKIE-E MASTERPIECE by KYUSAI YOSHIDA #15/25

Brand New $350,000.00 or Best Offer +$18.25 shipping

plus 27 more pens whose price + shipping exceeded $100,000,

I believe these pens are purchased as art objects to be placed in locked display cases and will not actually be filled with ink, then used to place ink on paper.

Clifton

[ajoe]

IMHO and limited experience over the past few decades, I consider every new pen purchase a (bleep) shoot. It does not matter the price. I have bought $15 pens that were exceptional and a $1500 pen that I could not wait to unload.

 

There is no price point that guarantees success or failure.

[Precise]

I agree that price does guarantee success or failure. But I'll stick by my statement that high-end pens are more often troublesome.

 

  On 9/10/2018 at 5:04 PM, ajoe said:

IMHO and limited experience over the past few decades, I consider every new pen purchase a (bleep) shoot. It does not matter the price. I have bought $15 pens that were exceptional and a $1500 pen that I could not wait to unload.

 

There is no price point that guarantees success or failure.

[Pete-M]

I would be sooooooo cheesed off it I spent that much on a pen that was not writing with sheer brilliance from the box. I'd pack it up and send it straight back.

We have high standards and should not let them slip for poor QC work or workmanship. If no one bothered and keep sending them to tepairers and pen tuners, the expensive pen complained will keep churning out sub standard work.

 

Grrrrrrrr haha.

 

Don't stand for it. The pen is mightier than the sword.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Pete-M

[Freddy]

I purchase 'cause I like 'em and they All write as they should.....{And others}....No problemo..maybe I'm just one lucky son-of-a-beach.

Those older Au nibs are Sweet! Visconti.........follow the old scan.....Below.........

Fred

Safe journey

[mongrelnomad]

Surprised about your bad experiences with Conid (though I only added an opaque barrel long after becoming familiar with the system on a demonstrator), but I concur with others here: go Japanese.

 

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with most pens - the problem comes in the quality of the materials chosen for the various parts and, crucially, the diligence and care placing the pieces together. In this last, the Japanese are simply head and shoulders above everybody else.

 

In owning hundreds of pens, I can safely say that the perfection-rate of Japanese pens is definitively and statistically higher, and the flaw rate, substantially lower. This is irrespective of price.

[Precise]

I've written that my two Pelikan 800's and my Pelikan 600 are perfect.

 

I like big pens, so I searched the Pelikan 1000 online and was shocked to read many complaints about the nib. But my love of big pens won over my better judgment. So I ordered a new one, hoping for good luck.

 

Alas, it is here and the nib is hugely out of alignment. In fact it's the worst new pen I've ever examined. One tine is 1 mm higher than the other, and the nib only touches the feed at the end. And there's a huge gap everywhere else.

 

So, it's on it's way back to the dealer.

Edited September 16, 2018 by Precise

[challer61]

Sailor

Nakaya

Pelikan 2xx -4xx

Aurora

Platinum

Conid

Tactical Turn

 

Never a dud or failure. With most ican change the job unit easily myself for whatever experience I want. My only problem has been cheap pens.

[Runnin_Ute]

My most expensive pens have been Pelikan. Out of seven, bought new and used and including a M400 White Tortoise, three M200'S (Cognac, Blue Marbled old style and Brown Marbled), plus a 140, 120 M and K and a M150. None needed major work.

The 120 needed a little but it was mostly clean up and run a brass shim through the tines. They were a bit tight. None were misaligned. But I only paid $17.50 for it.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Precise.....was the complaints coming from nail users, who are unused to a regular flex...which some 1000's are or semi-flex which others are.

A lot of ham fisted folks out there.

 

Not keeping track but whoops bend my nib is often mentioned.

Fat....well all post '97 (outside of the 200) Pelikans are..

.in the nib had been redesigned to be fat and blobby so ball point/roller ball don't have to do something time consuming and difficult; learn to hold a fountain pen behind the big index knuckle.

 

What other problems did you remember with the 1000...................interested in I'm a new owner of a used 1005, that is perfect for regular flex OBB.

It is OBB1/2 vs a pre'97 small 600 OBB.

 

Generally most that started out with Japanese will always outside of Aurora find modern Euro nibs fat.................Pelikan and MB are fatter than in their prime.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[A Smug Dill]

  On 9/10/2018 at 6:11 PM, Precise said:

I agree that price does guarantee success or failure. But I'll stick by my statement that high-end pens are more often troublesome.

Dare I suggest that:

• the real scope of your statement/claim is really only the "high-priced pens" for which you would personally choose to pay that kind of money, and not what thousands of other consumers (yes, I wouldn't even dignify – and myself included – as "customers", much less supposedly learned and astute collectors of fine pens) would choose to buy at that level of expense; and
• as essential aspect of the "trouble" to which you alluded has to do with what you're not prepared to either accept or write off, because of the price paid?

I don't intend to denigrate your personal preferences and choices, but I don't think I personally would ever spend close to $500 – or more – on a single Visconti, Omas, or any other Italian (or more broadly, European) brand of fountain pen. Also, I personally don't like the idea of piston-filler (or eye-dropper), and therefore to me they are a feature which is associated with what I would only pay no more than $30 for to buy as a novelty or experiment. (I'll admit that I bought a Sailor Professional Gear Realo for US$225 on eBay, with the intention of seeing what the fuss is all about, but so far it's still sitting factory-sealed in its plastic sleeve unused; that should be an indication of my lack of need and interest, notwithstanding my questionable spending decision.)

 

My "high-priced" Pilot and Platinum pens – all cartridge/converter-fed – give me no trouble whatsoever.

 

For "cheaper" pens, if they annoy me or just don't get along with how I like my pens, I just give them away or (in some cases) break them – to express my displeasure – and throw them out with the garbage. If I'm prepared to write them off per se, then they cause me no trouble in the long run. The example that stands out is a Pilot Custom Heritage 912 with a FA nib; I got so frustrated with it, I ultimately pulled the metal nib out and snapped it with my bare hands, instead of inflicting that atrocity on someone else. I also threw out an S.T. Dupont that wouldn't behave, although I didn't physically wreck it first. Most of the rest of the $200-$500 (Parker, Cross, etc.) pens that I didn't like ended up safely in my fiancée pen case, and my ex-wife took a couple off on her way out many years ago.

 

Once a pen has been written off, it's no trouble and I'm not going to lose any sleep (or any hair) over it.

Edited October 18, 2018 by A Smug Dill

[challer61]

  On 9/13/2018 at 9:45 AM, mongrelnomad said:

Surprised about your bad experiences with Conid (though I only added an opaque barrel long after becoming familiar with the system on a demonstrator), but I concur with others here: go Japanese.

 

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with most pens - the problem comes in the quality of the materials chosen for the various parts and, crucially, the diligence and care placing the pieces together. In this last, the Japanese are simply head and shoulders above everybody else.

 

In owning hundreds of pens, I can safely say that the perfection-rate of Japanese pens is definitively and statistically higher, and the flaw rate, substantially lower. This is irrespective of price.

Love my Nakaya, Sailor and Platinum. But, can't change nib assemblies - which is a huge restriction.

 

My philosophy - Buy first for nib system - and get nibs tuned. Makes all the difference in the world. Changeable nib assemblies (not just nib) is bonus points because one pen can be ten and you can upgrade as you see fit. 2nd buy the filler system you like. For me, pistons are great. Convertors are hit and miss. But buy the best ones out there. 3rd buy the body/section that fits your hand. 4th, buy the beauty of the material. This makes aesthetics last. You can always buy and example of a base pen, see of the nib system, filler and section work for you. Then expand into the various barrel materials.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Dill, I like piston fillers, and only have 'trouble' with '30-40's cork ones, that sat for a couple of generations in the back of the drawer. did have a problem with plastic Gasket 1.0...'38-55, but none with Plastic Gasket 2.0....'55-now.

Dip in the ink pot, twist and go.

 

I find spike c/c pens to be much more the rip off....no guts. I have ended up with some...one middle class new Cross Townsend and a few 'high end' when made ones. Cartridges are still ever so !@#$%^&** expensive; just like in the old days...and good thing if you like inks for converters...if your works.

 

I do like lever pens.The fastest to load, slowest to clean....but back in the old days of B&W TV....Clean a Pen?!!!! What? No one ever did that I knew of.

That was for men and boys a very limited time for ink, black, blue and BB....so it didn't matter if the ink in the pen wasn't producing clear and beautiful of today.

[JerseyGirl0807]

I am a novice when it comes to fountain pens but learn a little bit more every day. I must be very lucky because I have bought over thirty pens that had no flaws and wrote beautifully right out of the box. Since I am unable to tinker with any part of a pen to improve its performance I take a chance with every pen I buy. I fell in love with piston and vacuum fillers early on as well as B nibs and 1.1 mm stubs. TWSBI fit the bill so I bought about ten of them. Ranging from about $30 to $70 they were all perfect. I also found some demonstrators that used converters that also fit the bill. One day I found the Visconti Ocean Breeze. It was absolutely beautiful and was a demonstrator and vacuum filler. It was also very expensive especially for someone so inexperienced. I looked at it every day and after a week bought it. It was everything I had hoped for and more. After that I bought a Van Gogh and three Rembrandts. So now as I read through this thread people who are far savvier than I have expressed little regard for Italian made pens, especially Visconti. Was it beginners’ luck? I also have some Pilots, Platinums, Lamy etc.that perform well. I really like all my pens regardless of price or manufacturer. I take good care of them all so they write well. I am seven decades old and hope they outlive me as well they may.

Lorraine

[jmnav]

Quickly read this (already quitelong) thread. My feeling? Too many people seem to mistake "high-end" for "expensive".

[A Smug Dill]

@jmnav, how would you suggest the average fountain pen user, hobbyist and/or enthusiast define 'high-end', then?

Manufacturers don't comprehensively classify, in their products catalogues, which lines or models are:
– "high-end" or premium;
– "mid-range" or standard; and
– "low-end" or basic,
authoritatively, so that when consumers refer to their pen models (perhaps in discussions with each other) they don't use their personal definitions.

[inkstainedruth]

In some cases, manufacturers do: by price point or by defining "low-end" as "school pens". Additionally, "premium" is going to possibly mean better quality or fancier barrels and trim, maybe a 14 or 18K nib, an LE model, etc. (Even on vintage pens -- for instance, the Parker Vacumatics that were the Shadow Wave colors weren't as good a grade of celluloid as the "top tier" Pearl colors -- and didn't have as good a warranty on them; ironically, they're way more collectible now, and you'd have to fight me to get my Red Shadow Wave lockdown filler from me -- and I fight dirty... ).

Oh, and don't knock "school pens", BTW, unless you really want something really heavy or with a bigger girth -- I have a bunch of Parker Vectors which are great little pens; and I paid $5 US last spring at the Baltimore-Washington Pen Show for a 1980s era Pelikan Pelikano (it's got a nail for a nib, but is still an incredibly smooth writer).

You may not like piston-fillers, personally, A Smug Dill. But don't knock those of us who DO like them -- they hold way more ink than a c/c pen does, generally, which is great if you're having to do a lot of writing. And even low-end ones, like the Dollar 717i someone gave me a couple of years ago. Much as I like changing ink colors (a lot) I also like pens with bigger ink capacity. I'm going to make a stab this year at NoNoWriMo. And I really can't seen using a bunch of Parker Vectors to write a 50K + page manuscript in 30 days. Whereas I can definitely see using the Pelikan M405 with the EF nib (yeah, a piston filler!) -- or one of my other high capacity pens (Parker 51 Aeros or Vacumatics).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[pajaro]

I have not found that more high end or more expensive pens are any more trouble than any other pens. Most piston fillers are pretty durable, especially with a bit of silicone lube in the barrel. If you want trouble-free use, get a Parker 51. I bought one new in 1970 for $25 for pen and pencil. Forty-eight trouble years and counting.