Hi-End Pens Are A Lot Of Trouble

[OMASsimo]

  On 1/5/2018 at 3:15 PM, Hauriant said:

 

This is a good point. Hand crafting, whatever our romantic associations with it, is a horribly inefficient way to produce anything in which the raw materials are predictable.

 

Hand crafting might be inefficient, but when done by a master craftsman, it can be of outstanding quality. And most of all, it lends an individuality to the product that no industrial process can provide. You may call it romantic but for me that is worth a few bucks. I consider this similar to the difference between an original piece of art made by the artist and a reproduction. One of the two might appeal more to you. For me, it usually is the original.

Edited January 6, 2018 by OMASsimo

[KellyMcJ]

  On 12/11/2017 at 3:26 AM, Precise said:

Good News About Conid

 

Earlier in this thread I mentioned fatigue in gripping the slippery acetal section of my Conid Minimilistica. I've also complained about the filling process, which is more complex than ordinary pens.

 

Conid contacted me about that post, and sent me a body (and section) made from acrylic. It's not slippery and being transparent, the filling process is also "transparent". I wrote to Conid that if this were my product, I would only sell it with transparent bodies.

 

So, a pen which I'd put in storage is now serving me very well indeed. Thank you Conid for taking the trouble to remedy my problems.

 

Alan

 

Wow! That is awesome.

 

There's customer service and then there is above and beyond. This is an example of the latter and is sure to win customers.

[wspohn]

This subject is kind of like saying that your Cadillac has more issues than your Chevy truck, when both have the same engine. Granted, the optional extras may foul up, but the basic running gear shouldn't have any more problems in the high priced vehicle.

 

Pen manufacturers normally create a feed, nib and filler mechanism and then use them for a range of pens, sometimes changing the nib for enhanced appearance. The rest of the increased price on the premium models is for the window dressing - the precious metals or enamels or what have you. Even when the nibs change, they are most likely just a higher grade sourced from companies like Bock and are no more likely to have problems tan the cheap ones - less in fact.

 

Individual nibs may cause problems, either right out of the box due to poor quality control, or in a used pen because it took a hara kiri dive out of the hands of a clumsy previous owner and was never retuned properly.

[georges zaslavsky]

  On 1/8/2018 at 5:51 PM, wspohn said:

This subject is kind of like saying that your Cadillac has more issues than your Chevy truck, when both have the same engine. Granted, the optional extras may foul up, but the basic running gear shouldn't have any more problems in the high priced vehicle.

 

Pen manufacturers normally create a feed, nib and filler mechanism and then use them for a range of pens, sometimes changing the nib for enhanced appearance. The rest of the increased price on the premium models is for the window dressing - the precious metals or enamels or what have you. Even when the nibs change, they are most likely just a higher grade sourced from companies like Bock and are no more likely to have problems tan the cheap ones - less in fact.

 

Individual nibs may cause problems, either right out of the box due to poor quality control, or in a used pen because it took a hara kiri dive out of the hands of a clumsy previous owner and was never retuned properly.

I you speak about modern caddies, I would disagree the northstar engine wasn't a sibling of a LT1 or LT5 v8 chevy engine, it was a distinct and technologically more advanced than the LT1 except the LT5 which was also 32 valves dohc engine made by mercury marine, however the Northstar required an oil change every 165000km , a record for a gasoline engine.

I have never had issues with my italian , german and japanese pens. But the modern Parker Duofold I had was a beyond c r a p pen with a horrible nib and horrible inkflow. I sold it and never regretted it. Never modern Parker for me anymore. Yes also maintenance is important on a pen and a careless pen owner can damage a good pen too making it unusable for another person.

Edited January 8, 2018 by georges zaslavsky

[Hauriant]

  On 1/6/2018 at 6:45 PM, OMASsimo said:

 

Hand crafting might be inefficient, but when done by a master craftsman, it can be of outstanding quality. And most of all, it lends an individuality to the product that no industrial process can provide. You may call it romantic but for me that is worth a few bucks. I consider this similar to the difference between an original piece of art made by the artist and a reproduction. One of the two might appeal more to you. For me, it usually is the original.

I completely agree on your point! I love hand-crafted stuff too

(<-- see the instrument in the profile pic! ) but strictly as an economic mode of production. . . very limited.

 

[Hauriant]

  On 1/6/2018 at 5:02 PM, inkstainedruth said:

 

Absolutely. To take a non-pen example: William Morris vs. Gustav Stickley. Morris had this somewhat grandiose idea about how people should only have beautiful and functional possessions in their homes. Thus the Arts and Crafts Movement. Only his company went belly-up. Why? The cost of manufacturing his products -- all done by hand -- made the items too expensive for his targeted market (he was apparently something of a Socialist and wanted to "better" the lower classes) to be able to afford.

Stickley, OTOH, used machine work for stuff like drilling holes, and only had the finish work done by hand. So still high-end furniture -- but way more affordable. And the company still exists to this day. Not of course that I could afford any of it without winning the lottery.

A number of years ago my husband and I went to an auction, just on a lark -- a Stickley pipe stand went for something like $600 US. And a table, which my husband deemed as worth five bucks (as firewood!) went for a four-figure price on the grounds that it MIGHT be a Stickley piece as well (the auction house said they didn't know for sure right at the outset). And we just looked at each other completely agog at what that table sold for....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

Or guitars. . .

 

I happen to love Rickenbackers (Think John Lennon, The Byrds, etc.). I have owned four over the past 20 years. LOVE them - the sound, the looks, everything. The are made in the USA and in my entirely subjective opinion, worth it for me.

 

My entry-level, made-in-Mexico Fender bass was more playable out of the case and less finicky as an ownership experience. It was a tank, sounded good, played easy. Go figure

[OMASsimo]

  On 1/9/2018 at 10:00 PM, Hauriant said:

I completely agree on your point! I love hand-crafted stuff too

(<-- see the instrument in the profile pic! ) but strictly as an economic mode of production. . . very limited.

 

 

Absolutely, hand-crafting is usually not economic, though it can pay off very well. But since the topic of this thread refers to "High-end pens", however one would define this, I'd think that such rare specimens fit here very well. Mass production and high-end is often mutually exclusive.

 

By the way, my current profile pic also shows a hand-crafted pen by a hand-crafted picture. You'll find a lot of love to detail in both and, at least regarding the pen, a lot of quality.

[GranTorino25]

I just wanted to add to this topic, that 'high-end' pens aren't always bought for the aesthetic/showing off. To my hand, an M800 is the smallest size I can comfortably write with for extended periods, with a preference for an M1000/149 size. This automatically pushes me into the 'high-end' pen category and price range, even as a daily writer (yes there are a variety of brands within this size bracket, but very few are readily available in a small state in Australia...).

 

I have a Visconti HS second hand which I've not had a problem with yet, and the previous owner did not either, and a Pelikan M1000 which came with a little bit of babies bottom on a broad nib, along with a few M800s which have all been perfect.

 

I would recommend trying some very basic nib tuning skills personally though- rather than send my M1000 back two or three times, I used my sandpaper grits for less than 5 minutes to smooth the babies bottom, and also tune the nib slightly to my small oblique angle, as that is the angle I naturally smoothed it at. If you ensure the tines are aligned prior to smoothing, there is very2 little you can do to mess this process up. My M1000 was one of the first pens I tried this on too, I'm by no means an experienced tuner. As always though, I would recommend practice on far cheaper pens!

[Mullen88]

My most expensive pen, $1000+, gets put to shame from pens 1/10th the price. Its going in for work because I have hope for it yet, but I wont be buying any more writing instruments from that brand.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Mullen88

[jar]

I'm curious what troubles are people seeing with high end pens? I've been fortunate I guess since in well over a half century I haven't found that to be the case.

[matteob]

Ultimately a pen for me is a tool and not a status symbol. I have never spent more than £100 tbh. I would be very reluctant to spend four figures on a pen except for some of the hand painted Japanese pens.

Edited January 25, 2018 by matteob

[sub_bluesy]

  On 1/25/2018 at 1:17 AM, jar said:

I'm curious what troubles are people seeing with high end pens? I've been fortunate I guess since in well over a half century I haven't found that to be the case.

 

Off the top of my head, I have these in the higher price ranges all purchased new. You can easily see a theme here. I dont have any high end Japanese pens as you do so I imagine Japanese pens are a little more sorted than the Italians. My Platinum Century pens have been great though on the lower end of the Japanese price range. My best pens by far have been Jinhaos. Go figure. The Omas piston pull out became so nerve wracking, I have put all of my new Omas pens in the refrigerator for a few minutes before opening the piston for the first time. Then putting silicone on the trim contacting the piston knob to prevent it from sticking over time.

 

Omas Milord rosewood (shellac clogged the feed and the piston pulled out on the first fill)

Omas Paragon Noir (piston pulled out on first fill nib tines misaligned)

Omas Paragon Titanium DLC bronze (misaligned tines and ill tuned nib)

Omas Milord Vision (cracked body at the piston trim)

Visconti pininfarina Carbon graphite (epic battle)

Montegrappa Extra Otto (cursed but recently exorcised)

Edited January 25, 2018 by sub_bluesy

[jar]

  On 1/25/2018 at 7:01 AM, sub_bluesy said:

Off the top of my head, I have these in the higher price ranges all purchased new. You can easily see a theme here. I dont have any high end Japanese pens as you do so I imagine Japanese pens are a little more sorted than the Italians. My Platinum Century pens have been great though on the lower end of the Japanese price range. My best pens by far have been Jinhaos. Go figure. The Omas piston pull out became so nerve wracking, I have put all of my new Omas pens in the refrigerator for a few minutes before opening the piston for the first time. Then putting silicone on the trim contacting the piston knob to prevent it from sticking over time.

 

Omas Milord rosewood (shellac clogged the feed and the piston pulled out on the first fill)

Omas Paragon Noir (piston pulled out on first fill nib tines misaligned)

Omas Paragon Titanium DLC bronze (misaligned tines and ill tuned nib)

Omas Milord Vision (cracked body at the piston trim)

Visconti pininfarina Carbon graphite (epic battle)

Montegrappa Extra Otto (cursed but recently exorcised)

Thanks for buying the pens with problems.

 

None of my Omas pens have had any problems but it was only a dozen or so samples.

I avoid Visconti like the plague and certainly do not consider them among "High End" pens.

One of my Montegrappas has what might be considered a problem but is so trivial a problem that I've never tried to get it corrected.

 

So it seems that the evidence does not show High End pens are any more trouble than any other pens.

 

There does seem to be a pattern though that certain people have problems consistently while others seem to have very few problems consistently.

[BillH]

Over the past two years reading FPN I have noticed that pattern myself

[max dog]

When a high end pen goes wrong, people have a tendency to make more noise than when a low end pen goes wrong. What goes unnoticed are the multitudes of great high end pen experiences that pass by silently in the night.

[oneill]

  On 11/6/2017 at 6:03 AM, Precise said:

My high-end pens account for the majority of my pen problems. Conversely, my more "ordinary" pens, in the $100 to $200 range, write smoothest and most reliably.

 

I've had three Visconti Power Filler pens, all priced over $500, which didn't fill according to Visconti instructions. One was replaced three times and still didn't fill properly.

 

My Conid bulkfiller went back to Europe with a leaky crack in the section. And since it came back it has never swallowed the claimed amount of ink. And the so called "easy" fill procedure is anything but easy.

 

I've cleaned all of the above and put them away, probably never to write again. I can't sell them because they don't work right.

 

Several of my beloved Omas piston fillers have leaked around the piston rod, including one brand-new (before Omas closed).

 

And of course, low-end, cartridge-converter pens are usually fixed with a new $8 converter. I also like the visual check on ink level.

 

In addition to the filling issues, many of my gold, high-end nibs arrived (brand new) with defects in the nib settings, such as misalignment, excess gaps, etc. But my steel Bexley and Delta nibs have been perfect as delivered.

 

I also find steel nibs write smoother on the upstroke than gold. That's the opposite of what most people think, but there's a scientific reason for that. Here it is:

 

When you stroke upwards and the nib encounters a bit of roughness in the paper, it bends downwards. That causes it to dig in harder. The more flexible the nib, the greater this tendency. Thus gold strokes rougher than steel. We're talking about ordinary nibs here, not vintage flexers.

 

Cheers,

 

Alan

Hi All I have found through buying lots of affordable pens such as Jinhao and Baoer the same company, that pens which only cost a few dollars are more likely to write nicer than $200. pens and you get to spend whats left!!!! Trust Me Oneill

[oneill]

The beauty of having lots of low end pens is that I am still RICH.Trust Me ,Oneill

[oneill]

And my wife gets to buy High-end Handbags to put the money in for safe keeping!!!!!!! Oneill

[oneill]

  On 1/25/2018 at 7:01 AM, sub_bluesy said:

Off the top of my head, I have these in the higher price ranges all purchased new. You can easily see a theme here. I dont have any high end Japanese pens as you do so I imagine Japanese pens are a little more sorted than the Italians. My Platinum Century pens have been great though on the lower end of the Japanese price range. My best pens by far have been Jinhaos. Go figure. The Omas piston pull out became so nerve wracking, I have put all of my new Omas pens in the refrigerator for a few minutes before opening the piston for the first time. Then putting silicone on the trim contacting the piston knob to prevent it from sticking over time.

 

Omas Milord rosewood (shellac clogged the feed and the piston pulled out on the first fill)

Omas Paragon Noir (piston pulled out on first fill nib tines misaligned)

Omas Paragon Titanium DLC bronze (misaligned tines and ill tuned nib)

Omas Milord Vision (cracked body at the piston trim)

Visconti pininfarina Carbon graphite (epic battle)

Montegrappa Extra Otto (cursed but recently exorcised)

God Bless you for mentioning Jinhao just add Baoer as the other pen they make for a few dollars and which I have been pushing for years, one of the jinhao's the Golden Dragon worth about $10.00 in Taiwan was the daily user for one of Australias greatest cricketers namely Max Walker who just loved using it next to his Mont Blancs of course.Trust Me. Oneill If you would like a Jinhao pen look for my favourite The Abalone or Mother of pearl as

it is sometimes called,It looks like a High end in any collection and only costs Dollars,I have Three of them.

[sub_bluesy]

  On 1/26/2018 at 8:48 AM, oneill said:

God Bless you for mentioning Jinhao just add Baoer as the other pen they make for a few dollars and which I have been pushing for years, one of the jinhao's the Golden Dragon worth about $10.00 in Taiwan was the daily user for one of Australias greatest cricketers namely Max Walker who just loved using it next to his Mont Blancs of course.Trust Me. Oneill If you would like a Jinhao pen look for my favourite The Abalone or Mother of pearl asit is sometimes called,It looks like a High end in any collection and only costs Dollars,I have Three of them.

Ive got two of the Abalone panel Jinhaos 👍 The smaller version and the larger. I cant remember the models off hand.

 

My favorite pen I have is an Omas Paragon Ludovico Einaudi in broad. This pen was tuned at Omas and its literally perfect in appearance and performance! I have zero complaints about that pen over a couple years now. Omas could make perfect performers if they wanted. I just dont think many had been factory tuned. This particular pen was still sealed with the QC signed sticker over the plastic. It had never been opened and was as new but had a slight amount of a red ink left in the pen. This one did not have a rotated nib and the tines are perfectly aligned. Ive never even had to heat set it! If my house was on fire and I could only save one pen, it would be that one!

Edited January 26, 2018 by sub_bluesy