Enjoying Montblanc Pens — Broad, Oblique, Extra Fine, Le & Bespoke

[Tom Kellie]

[Tom Kellie]

~ Over the past half a year I’ve realized that I have an inadequate grasp of certain fountain pen-related terms used by Montblanc.

That’s especially true concerning Solitaire fountain pens, none of which I own. Reading threads about Solitaires has underscored my ignorance.

Jotting notes while reading diverse threads has resulted in an inchoate sense of Solitaires and the terms-of-art often used to describe various models.

I remain uncertain at best, feeling that my cobbled together notions may be both flawed and incomplete. That’s the case about much concerning quality writing instruments.

Following are my provisional thoughts. Whatever inaccuracies, misconceptions or omissions might exist await correction by kind-hearted, knowledgable friends.

**************************************************************************

• Solitaire generally refers to a group of all-metal or part-metal pens — Is that also the case with the white lacquer Solitaire models and the blue lacquer Blue Hour models?

• Solitaire Doué indicates that both cap and body are metal with the cap having a different finish.

• Doué is a model with a metal cap and a resin body.

• Barleycorn (Barley), Geometric, Guilloché, Hexagon, Martelé and Pinstripe describe different finish patterns.

• Vermeil is another term for silver-gilt just as Ormolu is another term for gilt-bronze.

**************************************************************************

Within the wider sense of Meisterstück fountain pens, Solitaires appear to be periodic releases of all or part metal with varying finishes.

Is this misleading? Only somewhat accurate? Grossly distorted? Laughably wide of the mark?

Both Guilloché and Martelé were familiar to me from unrelated contexts in the decorative arts.

While I’m not in the market for a Solitaire, I’m interested in learning more in order to better appreciate the lovely treasures owned by others.

Tom K.

[Tom Kellie]

~ Something tells me that I may not be part of the target market for these newest offerings on the Montblanc China Web site...

[thygreyt]

Tom,

 

The nib on the Montablanc Meisterstuck Solitaire Unicef is a cursive italic oblique. And the one on the 90th anniversary meisterstuck is a Stub Oblique. Both were loved by the hands and tools, resulting in a crafted masterpiece which i use to write every day

 

 

 

 

[Tom Kellie]

  On 3/7/2018 at 3:31 PM, Reed_thoughts said:

Tom,

 

The nib on the Montablanc Meisterstuck Solitaire Unicef is a cursive italic oblique. And the one on the 90th anniversary meisterstuck is a Stub Oblique. Both were loved by the hands and tools, resulting in a crafted masterpiece which i use to write every day.

 

~ Reed_thoughts:

 

Great photograph!

Mr. Smith is fortunate to have a satisfied customer with excellent image composition skills.

Thank you very much for the explanation and the accompanying image. They make clear how your superb nibs came to be.

The handwriting sample shows such crisp strokes. I enjoy looking at it again and again, as that's exemplary writing.

May I please ask about the approximate length of time required for those nibs to be crafted? From when you sent them to when they returned, about how long was that?

Tom K.

[zaddick]

• Solitaire generally refers to a group of all-metal or part-metal pens — Is that also the case with the white lacquer Solitaire models and the blue lacquer Blue Hour models?

Solitaire is only used for plain metal pens, not those with lacquer or other decorations, at least that is the common use. I am not sure what MB does for product catalogs.

• Solitaire Doué indicates that both cap and body are metal with the cap having a different finish.

• Doué is a model with a metal cap and a resin body.

I think Solitaire Doue and Duoe are the same, a metal cap and resin body. I have not seen an all metal pen where the cap and body have different metal finishes. I couldbe wrong and Solitaire Duoe could be for pens like the Ramses and Nickolai wher teh cap is mostly a stone.

• Barleycorn (Barley), Geometric, Guilloché, Hexagon, Martelé and Pinstripe describe different finish patterns.

Yes, there is also a smooth all silver and a smooth all steel finish. there is also a finish with almost a chevron like pattern, though I am not sure the official pattern name.

• Vermeil is another term for silver-gilt just as Ormolu is another term for gilt-bronze.

I understand vermeil is only for gold plating over silver base. Otherwise it is gold over brass and just regerred to as gold plated. The older solitaire pens were gold plated mostly.

Edited March 7, 2018 by zaddick

[Tom Kellie]

  On 3/7/2018 at 4:00 PM, zaddick said:

Solitaire is only used for plain metal pens, not those with lacquer or other decorations, at least that is the common use. I am not sure what MB does for product catalogs.

• Barleycorn (Barley), Geometric, Guilloché, Hexagon, Martelé and Pinstripe describe different finish patterns.

Yes, there is also a smooth all silver and a smooth all steel finish. there is also a finish with almost a chevron like pattern, though I am not sure the official pattern name.

I understand vermeil is only for gold plating over silver base. Otherwise it is gold over brass and just regerred to as gold plated. The older solitaire pens were gold plated mostly.

 

 

~ zaddick:

 

Thank you for helping me out by refining my understanding.

I'm attaching an image of a Meisterstück White Solitaire Red Gold Classique Rollerball.

It's from the Montblanc USA Web site, with an explanation that the pen has “precious white lacquer”.

There is a companion White Solitaire Fountain Pen offered on the Montblanc China Web site.

That's what confused me as it's described by Montblanc as being a Solitaire with white lacquer.

My error in not making clear in my original post that I was listing Solitaire finishes which involved unfamiliar terms, aside from Pinstripe.

I hadn't intended to list all variations, but only a few of those which had puzzled me.

Yes, the official designation was indeed chevron as you've very kindly mentioned, and as I've seen on several older Web pages.

I'll also append a screenshot of a past FPN Classified which describes a Solitaire as being ‘Gold Vermeil’.

That's an example of why I mentioned “vermeil”. Could the advertiser have been mistaken and their Solitaire was actually “gold plated”, as you've mentioned above?

I know next to nothing about the various versions of Solitaires and am easily befuddled by what I encounter, so your corrections are very helpful.

With Appreciation,

Tom K.

[zaddick]

Montblanc is not a model of consistency. It remindes me of when Mercedes started selling 4-door coupes with a straight face. Hence the reason I gave myself an out incase it was easy to point to a procuct on-line that is the equivalent of the 4-door coupe of pens.

 

I take vermeil as gold plating on silver. It is easy enough to tell as the pen cap should still have a visible silver hallmark under the plating. If not, it is gold over brass. People use terms imprecisely all the time (myself included) so I cannot say if the ad you reference is in reality vermeil. If I bought it and it was gold over brass I would return it for the reason of being misdescribed. Well, i would ask to see the hallmark first to avoid such surprises.

 

There are some solid preciuos metail solitaire pens, but they are much heavier and I have not held but a few of the solid gold 146 and 149 versions, but most are a metal sleeve over resin. This fact may not be clear if a person has only seen photos or even just looked at a capped pen. This point was vividly illustrated to me when I was looking to purchase a new solitaire at a boutique several years ago. I was practicing using the pen and went to operate the piston. the silver cap on the piston nob came off in my hands. Thankfully it was in front of the sale person so I was not accused of abuse, but it was simply glued on. They would not sell me that pen once the defect was discovered. I suppose they do this to keep the weight down for a metal pen (and probably for cost reasons too).

 

I have had several over the years but am down to one for now. I kept the one with a chevron pattern and the MOP star as I like the look and it sports a nice BB nib.

[Tom Kellie]

~ zaddick:

 

Schooled again!

Thank you for taking time to explain various subtleties which are unknown to a greenhorn like me.

The many fountain pen transactions in which you've engaged over the years have honed your awareness of what to look for...and avoid.

It's so helpful to have this explained in this thread for those of us unaware of these key details.

You've already provided too much, therefore it'd be churlish to ask for more.

Nevertheless, if someday your BB nib chevron Solitaire with a mother-of-pearl Montblanc star is available for a close-up, it would be a welcome image here.

As ever, only if providing such an image was both comfortable and convenient.

Thanks to your supplemental explanation and the reading of various threads, I'm now better equipped to read and appreciate posts about Montblanc Meisterstück Solitaires.

Step-by-step, the murk in my thinking clears, with sharper understanding gradually effacing muddled confusion.

With Much Appreciation,

Tom K.

[zaddick]

The pen is resting somewhere in the dining room tarnishing today, but I have these photos that are about a year old. They are probably already floating about FPN somewhere, maybe in the broadside thread, so forgive me if you have seen them before.

 

 

 

With a friend

 

 

Shiny bits

 

 

A custom silver overlay on a 149 - sort of a do it yourself solitaire

 

[Ghost Plane]

  On 3/7/2018 at 2:26 PM, Tom Kellie said:

~ Ghost Plane:

 

 

Now there's a WE pen which would bring out the creativity of Hamburg fountain pen designers.

The Lewis Carroll WE, with a wide range of possible design elements, with a miniature looking glass among the favored options.

The exclusive 88 VIP edition offered to discerning connoisseurs in the Far East would feature the Red Queen in vibrant vermilion lacquer.

Tom K.

One of the great joys of FPN is the pleasant habit of my fellow posters catching my literary allusions.

[BlueJ]

Tom,

You asked about turnaround time with Dan Smith (nibsmith.com). I have a pen with him now; his site quotes 7-8 weeks, and it has already been that long, so perhaps the average wait has increased again (it used to be shorter.) He does offer express service at a higher price. Of course round-trip shipping time has to be added as well. Many of these experts have other careers and do their nib work in "spare time," so as they become more established and popular their waiting list grows.

 

I have another pen out with a newer meister, Mark Bacas (nibgrinder.com) and may be able to post some comparisons eventually. I don't know what your best options would be from China, but perhaps there are some nibmeisters in Japan.

[thygreyt]

  On 3/7/2018 at 3:40 PM, Tom Kellie said:

 

~ Reed_thoughts:

 

Great photograph!

Mr. Smith is fortunate to have a satisfied customer with excellent image composition skills.

Thank you very much for the explanation and the accompanying image. They make clear how your superb nibs came to be.

The handwriting sample shows such crisp strokes. I enjoy looking at it again and again, as that's exemplary writing.

May I please ask about the approximate length of time required for those nibs to be crafted? From when you sent them to when they returned, about how long was that?

Tom K.

 

 

Thank you for the handwriting comment! I try and practice every day... How may you ask? By Writing. Lots of writing and being purposeful while doing it.

 

As for the time, i have NEVER (yet) waited the normal period... Every time i go and send a pen to Dan, i talk to him before hand and make sure he knows the pen is inbound. I met him at the Miami Pen show a few years back (2016?) and he knows how i like my pens to be done.

 

I pay for the expedited fee and i get the pen received, worked and returned in a few days. He usually works on it the day he gets it, and drops it off for shipping the next day. I send the pen and return label on Fedex ground... so you could say the entire process takes ~9 business days. this could be shortened if i were to mail it with Next Day shipping services... but i dont mind the short wait.

 

I have sent Dan Smith pictures and videos of my pen grip, writing, etc. Now all my pens are "custom" made for me... and they write SUPERBLY well. I cant recommend him high enough.

[Tom Kellie]

  On 3/7/2018 at 6:33 PM, zaddick said:

The pen is resting somewhere in the dining room tarnishing today, but I have these photos that are about a year old. They are probably already floating about FPN somewhere, maybe in the broadside thread, so forgive me if you have seen them before.

 

~ zaddick:

 

Your lovely BB nib chevron Solitaire keeps good company indeed. The redoubtable Mr. Morgan being as sound and creditable a buddy as one might want.

Thank you for the images, as well as the custom silver overlay 149. Their presence certainly enhances this thread with silvery beauty.

Photographers of a certain vintage, who once spent happy hours in home darkrooms with trays of developer and fixer, have a high regard for silver.

Such larger-sized, detailed images adda rich dimension to text description. Despite having vision in only one eye, I've been a visually-oriented person throughout my life.

I never watch television, films, or videos in any context, but greatly enjoy oil paintings, watercolors, mosaics, ceramics, porcelain, fine metalwork, textiles, glassware, and all types of sketches.

I don't mind children's finger-painting which so often shows unrestrained creativity.

In addition to the foregoing, still photography has been an interest since elementary school, in the early 1960s.

When fountain pen, nib or handwriting images are posted in any thread, my interest increases.

Thank you so much for your Solitaire explanations and for the photographs above. This seems to have unexpectedly been ‘Solitaire Week’.

Tom K.

[Tom Kellie]

  On 3/7/2018 at 6:41 PM, Ghost Plane said:

One of the great joys of FPN is the pleasant habit of my fellow posters catching my literary allusions.

 

~ Ghost Plane:

 

Yes, that reaffirms the value of shared appreciation of the written word.

Certain allusions are fairly abstruse such that they zing past almost unacknowledged.

Fountain pens and books keep company in many a home, whether or not a looking glass is present.

Tom K.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Tom Kellie

[Tom Kellie]

  On 3/7/2018 at 6:44 PM, BlueJ said:

Tom,

You asked about turnaround time with Dan Smith (nibsmith.com). I have a pen with him now; his site quotes 7-8 weeks, and it has already been that long, so perhaps the average wait has increased again (it used to be shorter.) He does offer express service at a higher price. Of course round-trip shipping time has to be added as well. Many of these experts have other careers and do their nib work in "spare time," so as they become more established and popular their waiting list grows.

 

I have another pen out with a newer meister, Mark Bacas (nibgrinder.com) and may be able to post some comparisons eventually. I don't know what your best options would be from China, but perhaps there are some nibmeisters in Japan.

 

~ BlueJ:

 

This information is especially helpful. Thank you for explaining about both Dan Smith and Mark Bacas.

There may be others who read here who, like me, are unfamiliar with them.

You've clarified something which I've never understood, i.e. that these craftsmen may have other careers, with their nibwork a side activity.

Although yours truly hasn't resorted to nibmeisters, there have been private messages from others asking for recommendations.

Have you been satisfied with the results of your ‘special request nib’ fountain pens?

Every piece of information added in this thread increases overall understanding, which is why I so appreciate your post.

Tom K.

[Tom Kellie]

  On 3/7/2018 at 7:02 PM, Reed_thoughts said:

Thank you for the handwriting comment! I try and practice every day... How may you ask? By Writing. Lots of writing and being purposeful while doing it.

 

As for the time, i have NEVER (yet) waited the normal period... Every time i go and send a pen to Dan, i talk to him before hand and make sure he knows the pen is inbound. I met him at the Miami Pen show a few years back (2016?) and he knows how i like my pens to be done.

 

I pay for the expedited fee and i get the pen received, worked and returned in a few days. He usually works on it the day he gets it, and drops it off for shipping the next day. I send the pen and return label on Fedex ground... so you could say the entire process takes ~9 business days. this could be shortened if i were to mail it with Next Day shipping services... but i dont mind the short wait.

 

I have sent Dan Smith pictures and videos of my pen grip, writing, etc. Now all my pens are "custom" made for me... and they write SUPERBLY well. I cant recommend him high enough.

 

~ Reed_thoughts:

 

What you've described above is comparable to bespoke clothing, wherein customers are periodically measured to ascertain sizes with precision.

When new shoes or garments are needed, they send their request which is then made to their size on an atelier's records.

Your business relationship with Dan Smith sounds great, as he knows you and thus provides exquisitely customized nibs to meet your writing preferences.

This makes good sense to me as I have a similar shared understanding with Mr. Axel Nier of Montblanc Hamburg's Bespoke Nib Manufacture Team.

When he telephoned me earlier this week about pending matters, he already understood much, needing no more than a few subtle clarifications.

Several decades ago I was a regular at a French restaurant on the outskirts of Honolulu's Waikiki District.

The chef/proprietor, who left cooking to establish a thriving parachute business, knew me well, providing custom dishes which weren't on the menu.

It's one of life's more pleasant experiences, to have a grounded relationship of mutual respect with those offering their refined skills.

Thank you for explaining this. Your regular images posted in this thread are especially appreciated whenever they appear.

Tom K.

[Tom Kellie]

Size Comparison: 2001 PoA Marquise de Pompadour vs 1994 PoA Louis XIV

~ While preparing materials before traveling to a remote mountain campus I sought a size comparison photograph of two Montblanc Patron of Art fountain pens which I like.

I'd heretofore never found any image of the two taken at the same time, under the same lighting conditions, at the same scale.

Fortune favored my efforts, with the above image taken from the Internet. They’re both Montblanc pen designs which appeal to me for a variety of reasons.

Looking at the image, I noticed that the clips are similar, narrowing before ending in a teardrop-shape.

Fountain pen nomenclature among the cognoscenti interests me, but I've not yet found an extensive glossary for more arcane points.

• Is there a specialized term for this type of clip, e.g. a ‘neck-tie clip’ or something similarly descriptive?

• Is there a specialized term for a teardrop-shaped terminus of a clip?

If I was acquainted with a clip-maker, I'd ask what terms-of-art are commonly used for the various features of pen clips.

I've looked through FPN archived threads for anything relating to clips and clip styles, but thus far haven't discovered anything helpful.

If there's any information which might explain more about pen clips, I'd welcome links to it or an explanation.

Tom K. (who is prone to posting gratuitous images of the PoA Louis XIV)

[Tom Kellie]

  On 3/7/2018 at 5:27 PM, zaddick said:

I take vermeil as gold plating on silver. It is easy enough to tell as the pen cap should still have a visible silver hallmark under the plating. If not, it is gold over brass. People use terms imprecisely all the time (myself included) so I cannot say if the ad you reference is in reality vermeil. If I bought it and it was gold over brass I would return it for the reason of being misdescribed. Well, i would ask to see the hallmark first to avoid such surprises.

 

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/278015-montblanc-hallmarking/

~ zaddick:

 

You da Man!

What you explained earlier today about vermeil (which I grew up calling silver-gilt) being gold over silver, and therefore needing a visible silver hallmark, is right on target.

I'll keep this foremost in mind when considering any future vermeil fountain pens.

Below are two screenshots illustrating what you've kindly explained.

One, from an FPN thread, describes a 146 Vermeil Pinstripe as having an “Ag925”.

The second is a close-up of a PoA Louis XIV, which is described as being Vermeil.

Sure enough, within the red rectangle is both “925” and the hallmark of a balance (scales) with “925” in the middle.

The FPN Montblanc Forum is a great source of helpful information and you often lead the pack.

Thank you!

Tom K.

[Matlock]

  On 3/8/2018 at 5:26 AM, Tom Kellie said:

 

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/278015-montblanc-hallmarking/

~ zaddick:

 

You da Man!

What you explained earlier today about vermeil (which I grew up calling silver-gilt) being gold over silver, and therefore needing a visible silver hallmark, is right on target.

I'll keep this foremost in mind when considering any future vermeil fountain pens.

Below are two screenshots illustrating what you've kindly explained.

One, from an FPN thread, describes a 146 Vermeil Pinstripe as having an “Ag925”.

The second is a close-up of a PoA Louis XIV, which is described as being Vermeil.

Sure enough, within the red rectangle is both “925” and the hallmark of a balance (scales) with “925” in the middle.

The FPN Montblanc Forum is a great source of helpful information and you often lead the pack.

Thank you!

Tom K.

 

And the Silver hallmarks either side.