Might This Be A Parker 45 Pencil?

[Liuna]

Hello to everyone. Could this Parker mechanical pencil on the photos be a Parker 45 or what could the number 45 indicate? Or yes it could be fourth quarter of any years ending with 5 before 1980, but it says Made in UK, so it must be from after 1987. Also, there is a little "Y" above Made in UK, don't know why (not directly above it, a "line" further).

For some reason there is no Parker logo on the top, I hope that doesn't mean it's fake. Also, might be not best seen on the photo, but the number 45 is like outlines only. It has the original Parker logo before Made in UK, not the around 1998 one (P ending in arrow) but the arrow and elipse.

I searched for Parker 45 pencil on Google image search, but it shows pencils with bigger metal bottoms at the lead part than mine has. In fact mine has the exact same little metal ending that most of the Jotter PENS have, then continuing in a little metal pipe for the lead. The whole upper part moves up and down when clicking it.

So, considering all of these, do you have any ideas about it? Thank you in advance.

(Note: I also found an other one, on which there is a Q.I, meaning being made in 2000 and you have to press the "cap" only).

Edited October 15, 2017 by Liuna

[Tweel]

It looks like a "45", but I think it's a "45" ballpoint with a pencil cartridge installed.

[Liuna]

  On 10/15/2017 at 10:50 PM, Tweel said:

It looks like a "45", but I think it's a "45" ballpoint with a pencil cartridge installed.

Hmm, never heard of such. Is it an frequent thing to happen? I found it like this.

So I guess you suggest there is no such "45" mechanical pencil in general, just pen? No pencils were made of Parker 45?

(Other note: its inner part and eraser size is different from the Q.I (2000) made one. No metal part, just a gray plastic tube and a smaller black tube with an eraser smaller than the other mechanical pencil's. Can't be just taken out simply, but I don't intend to.) But I hope it's still not a copy. Is it "regular" it has no logo on it's top end?

 

Update: I found this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Parker-Pencil-Stainless-Steel-Black/dp/B003M4V8PM

(And it's "uploaded" by Parker on Amazon, so I think it's official. Maybe it does exist?)

Edited October 15, 2017 by Liuna

[Tweel]

  On 10/15/2017 at 11:26 PM, Liuna said:

So I guess you suggest there is no such "45" mechanical pencil in general, just pen? No pencils were made of Parker 45?

 

No, I didn't suggest that.

[parkergeo]

P45 pencils generally had twist mechanisms. You have a BP body that has been outfitted with the late-era pencil insert. See the 0.5mm version with the eraser on this page:

 

http://www.parker75.addr.com/Reference/Sections/Pencil_cartridge.htm

[Liuna]

  On 10/16/2017 at 11:32 AM, parkergeo said:

P45 pencils generally had twist mechanisms. You have a BP body that has been outfitted with the late-era pencil insert. See the 0.5mm version with the eraser on this page:

 

http://www.parker75.addr.com/Reference/Sections/Pencil_cartridge.htm

That's interesting. And where could it have been assembled like this? And was this done by Parker itself? Honestly, I totally don't know how or from where we got it, must have been my parents' or maybe grandparents'. Yes, the 0,5 one does look like it, works totally well. So is it like a rarer "hybrid"? Also, is it common they don't have the logo on their tops? (And it's flat, while the 45 pens have little "hills").

I asked a stationery worker friend if it could be that a pen body got loaded with a pencil cartridge and she said no (she works in stationeries for almost two decades now). By late-era, what era do you mean? What years?

 

 

  On 10/16/2017 at 12:28 AM, Tweel said:

 

No, I didn't suggest that.

Okay, no problem. It is just a bit strange I can barely find anything about Jotter 45 pencils, I guess they are less known by those who follow and know the Parker pens, pencils and their types. I'm a bit new to this, although I've seen many Jotter pens in general in the 90s as a kid.

Edited October 16, 2017 by Liuna

[PaulS]

apologies to the op for piggybacking, but thought the attached picture of some 45 pencils (assume all three are) might be of interest - plus I'm hoping that with this post I retrieve my ability to post pix.

 

Two have twist facility and are ex U.K. models, both without date code - the third one is a push button States example with date code of IU, which believe to be third quarter of 1991.

A shame, but it appears that such marvelous pieces of technology are under-appreciated.

[Wahl]

It is an original P45 pencil, I have three different colored ones in my collection.

 

The P21 pencil was a twist action.

[Liuna]

  On 10/16/2017 at 6:32 PM, Wahl said:

It is an original P45 pencil, I have three different colored ones in my collection.

 

The P21 pencil was a twist action.

 

 

Neat. I'm still kind of getting to know the "sub" families, so to say. I've known mostly the classic one so far. I found two other black bottom pencils of that classic(?) type with Q.I (2000) date code, clickable cap. (You can see both kinds on the attached photo below).

What surprised me is that it has no date code at all and the number 45 confused me a little bit at first because of the pre-1980 date code system.

 

  On 10/16/2017 at 4:24 PM, PaulS said:

apologies to the op for piggybacking, but thought the attached picture of some 45 pencils (assume all three are) might be of interest - plus I'm hoping that with this post I retrieve my ability to post pix.

 

Two have twist facility and are ex U.K. models, both without date code - the third one is a push button States example with date code of IU, which believe to be third quarter of 1991.

A shame, but it appears that such marvelous pieces of technology are under-appreciated.

 

Thank you very for posting this picture and information, it's interesting. The tip is like the one on the right and the upper part is like the one on the left.

I think so that these elegant, practical and classic pens (along with other kinds of pens/objects etc like these) are less appreciated. So I guess it's not unusual for 45s to not have date codes on them, right? I could only guess it was made between 1987 and 1999 because they made them in UK after '87 and has no trace of the new logo (1999-2009 or so?).

Edited October 16, 2017 by Liuna

[PaulS]

Regret my knowledge of 45 pencils is very poor so unable to help you with reliable information. IIRC the halo logo came in around 1958 and ceased around 1999, so you look to be correct in saying 1999 was the start date for the new logo, which as you will know appears as a very stylized/italicized P.

 

I've a button activated 45 pencil which carries a date code of T I, plus it carries the new logo on both the cap (roughly where the old logo would appear), and on the top of the button. In view of the new logo on this pencil, I'm assuming it's after 1999, and although the code omits a dot between the two digits, my opinion is that it should be read as T.I - making it first quarter 2005 - the cap also states 'MADE IN UK. I've really no idea, but perhaps toward the end of the 45s life (2007) the factory came away from twist activated pencils for this model, and opted for the button design only. I don't know the date the 45 pencil first came into being.

 

the above mentioned two halo examples are undated, but the new logo example mentioned here is dated. I've just had a look at some of my U.K. made 45 f.ps., and none carries the new logo. Slightly less than half are undated, the rest are dated, but what conclusion you draw from this I don't know.

Edited October 16, 2017 by PaulS

[Liuna]

  On 10/16/2017 at 9:53 PM, PaulS said:

Regret my knowledge of 45 pencils is very poor so unable to help you with reliable information. IIRC the halo logo came in around 1958 and ceased around 1999, so you look to be correct in saying 1999 was the start date for the new logo, which as you will know appears as a very stylized/italicized P.

 

I've a button activated 45 pencil which carries a date code of T I, plus it carries the new logo on both the cap (roughly where the old logo would appear), and on the top of the button. In view of the new logo on this pencil, I'm assuming it's after 1999, and although the code omits a dot between the two digits, my opinion is that it should be read as T.I - making it first quarter 2005 - the cap also states 'MADE IN UK. I've really no idea, but perhaps toward the end of the 45s life (2007) the factory came away from twist activated pencils for this model, and opted for the button design only. I don't know the date the 45 pencil first came into being.

 

the above mentioned two halo examples are undated, but the new logo example mentioned here is dated. I've just had a look at some of my U.K. made 45 f.ps., and none carries the new logo. Slightly less than half are undated, the rest are dated, but what conclusion you draw from this I don't know.

 

I think my conclusion could be that rather the new logo 45s came out dated, more of those than the pre-1999 ones. At least it seems to me as such from what you wrote, but there could be exceptions and I could be wrong. I guess I still don't know lot of things, I mostly knew the classic ballpoint ones before.

This site says 45 pens appeared from 1960. https://parkerpens.net/parker45.html

In my case, this 45 one isn't dated and two other classic looking pencils are dated (Q.I, 2000), classic logo on cap, "new" logo on the barrel.

[PaulS]

one of the things you learn from the better informed people on the FPN, is that it can be unreliable to try and be hard and fast when determining dates from the physical parts of a pen. Apparently, old stock is often used for some time after the demise of a model, and then again as you've discovered there can sometimes be a mixture of parts - all of which confuses the unwary.

 

You may be correct with your conclusion about the relationship between the new logo and dates ......... I have more than enough problems with f.ps. issues - so will draw the line at pencils (does that qualify as a pun?)

Edited October 16, 2017 by PaulS

[Liuna]

  On 10/16/2017 at 10:23 PM, PaulS said:

one of the things you learn from the better informed people on the FPN, is that it can be unreliable to try and be hard and fast when determining dates from the physical parts of a pen. Apparently, old stock is often used for some time after the demise of a model, and then again as you've discovered there can sometimes be a mixture of parts - all of which confuses the unwary.

 

You may be correct with your conclusion about the relationship between the new logo and dates ......... I have more than enough problems with f.ps. issues - so will draw the line at pencils (does that qualify as a pun?)

Sorry, what is f.ps. exactly? And is it common that parts get mixed?

 

(Drew this out of practisement. On the left is what most 45 pencils I found on the net have, right one is like classic pen with pipe added).

[parkergeo]

  On 10/16/2017 at 1:52 PM, Liuna said:

That's interesting. And where could it have been assembled like this? And was this done by Parker itself?

The inserts are available separately, so some have been used for aftermarket conversions.

 

However, the UK marking and the lack of a cabochon mark this as a 90's model, and the date code of "Y" that you found on the pen would make it 1996. At that point, it appears that the thin lead inserts were being factory-installed into BP bodies and sold as pencils for some of the Parker models, so there is no reason to believe it isn't original.

[PaulS]

sorry, abbreviations become part of life, so assume everyone understands ............ for f.ps. read fountain pens. As for the mixing of parts, I'll put head on block and suggest this might apply to f.ps. more than pencils or ballpoints. With Parker it appears to have been not uncommon that as variations in models appeared, some of the old stock parts continued to be used. To what extent subsequent repairs involved the use/replacement of later parts perhaps someone else might comment.

[Liuna]

  On 10/17/2017 at 1:43 AM, parkergeo said:

The inserts are available separately, so some have been used for aftermarket conversions.

 

However, the UK marking and the lack of a cabochon mark this as a 90's model, and the date code of "Y" that you found on the pen would make it 1996. At that point, it appears that the thin lead inserts were being factory-installed into BP bodies and sold as pencils for some of the Parker models, so there is no reason to believe it isn't original.

I see, it's interesting to know. I like this date code system with the letters giving out Quality Pen.

Cabochon...? I haven't seen any cabochon-placed Parkers so far. The Y strangely is above the Made in UK graving, not rightwards from it as on the other pencils and pens I found.

By the way I noticed there is a BP body mechanic pencil model on Amazon as well, under the profile of Parker. I guess they had some of them before but they are sold out by now and there are two positive reviews. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Parker-Pencil-Stainless-Steel-Black/dp/B003M4V8PM

 

 

  On 10/17/2017 at 8:17 AM, PaulS said:

sorry, abbreviations become part of life, so assume everyone understands ............ for f.ps. read fountain pens. As for the mixing of parts, I'll put head on block and suggest this might apply to f.ps. more than pencils or ballpoints. With Parker it appears to have been not uncommon that as variations in models appeared, some of the old stock parts continued to be used. To what extent subsequent repairs involved the use/replacement of later parts perhaps someone else might comment.

 

No problem. I'm good at English and I know the word but I haven't really met the abbrevation of fountain pen so far.

It's understandable they want to use the stock parts and I guess not many people ask for them as repair parts.

[Wahl]

@PaulS, I have a push button pencil just like the one on top of your photo, mine is mad in UK, it shows the date code IE ( I believe, it is not very clear).

 

Not claiming to be an expert, but I don´t think this is a 45 model, but rather a Jotter.

[PaulS]

since you probably know more than me about these things Wahl, then you are probably correct in saying that one is a Jotter - I had made the assumption it was a 45 pencil based on the design of the clip and the feathers. I had also assumed that the name Jotter applied only to a b.p. and not pencils - apologies for my ignorance. I have two of this button design - one from the States and another from the U.K.

 

Date codes appear to have started in the U.K. in 1980, and believe the date quarter markers changed in 1987 which was the last year for the code ECLI - after that letters from the words QUALITY PEN were followed - or preceded - by the digit I, and on this basis I think your IE is for first quarter 1984 - would you agree?

As we've discussed, unfortunately, date marking looks to have been a bit hit and miss, and is perhaps unreliable or missing entirely - and missing dots don't help either.

thanks for the correction.

Edited October 17, 2017 by PaulS

[Wahl]

Hi Paul, just glad to contribute the little I know.

 

As to the date codes I have to admit I´m a bit lost there.

 

Cheers !

[PaulS]

I think mitto (Khan), and possibly others, have posted these details before - if you consider it useful Wahl then I'm sure we can re-post these codes - they are interesting and help with dating most Parker pens providing of course your pen is marked. Details will be on the FPN archives anyway, and they will be found by searching with keywords. I'm referring to the modern code system based on the words QUALITY PEN - which believe started around the late 1970s - not the old Parker system which lasted from mid 1930s until probably the mid 1950s.

Edited October 18, 2017 by PaulS