Experiments With Flex

[Detman101]

I recall attempting to fit an FPR ultraflex into an X750...it was too thick or wide or something.
I think too thick...to fit into the section with the feed.
The nib/feed housing isn't removable with those pens.

[txomsy]

That's not my experience. But those pens do not have a round feed. The feed has a tiny flat part to force a given orientation. If one fails to notice, then trying to replace the feed in the wrong orientation becomes difficult.

 

But, I have fitted various Goulet stub and FPR flex nibs to Jinhao x750 and x450 without any problem. That, OTOH is only my personal experience and maybe I just was lucky. YMMV.

[Detman101]

55 minutes ago, txomsy said:

That's not my experience. But those pens do not have a round feed. The feed has a tiny flat part to force a given orientation. If one fails to notice, then trying to replace the feed in the wrong orientation becomes difficult.

 

But, I have fitted various Goulet stub and FPR flex nibs to Jinhao x750 and x450 without any problem. That, OTOH is only my personal experience and maybe I just was lucky. YMMV.

Oh wow...that would explain my failure at it! lol...
I tried, failed, gave up and put the original nib back on it and sent it to a friend with a bottle of ink. 😆

I'll have to give the x750 another try with an Ultraflex sometime in the future.

[Pamp]

I've installed an FPR ultra-flex on 2 Jinhao 750s, and they are now a couple of my favorite pens. As the previous poster said, you do have to be careful about how you install the nib and feed, because there is a tiny flat part. (The Jinhao feed works well with this nib. I don't think the FPR feed fits.)  I'm so amazed at the FPR ultra flex nib. I have several of their pens with that nib and now on the two Jinhaos. I'm using Aurora black ink and Noodler's Cactus Eel ink in the Jinhaos, and they write so smoothly with such great flex. 

[amberleadavis]

On 2/9/2022 at 7:08 AM, leonBG said:

Dear all,

 

I am new here, my name is Bojan, and I am fromBelgrade, Europe/Serbia.

 

I am 60, a journalist, but but also a student of academy of art. I adore fountain pens,have a lot of questions about some old I got from friends, also bought a kit from the states to make some new ones, but for now, I am asking for small help.

 

As a fresh student of sculpting, I have to draw a lot, we are using dip pens, but I thought to install a dip pen into Jinhao fountain pens.

 

I am planing to buy cheap Jinhao x750/x450 and install flex nibs: Zebra G #6, and FPR ultra flex nibs. I found on the internet that FPR flex pens are convenient for these Jinaho fountain pens, and zat Zebra G pen should be adjusted a little.

 

Do any of you have a kind of experience about this, about other pens, and what do you thing of it.

 

I would be very thakful if anyone could help me with some ideas or knowledge about this.

 

 

Best,

Bojan

 

 

 

I would highly recommend that you buy an Osprey Pen.  

https://www.ospreypens.com/collections/osprey-madison-fountain-pen-standard-size-6-zebra-g-5-5-flex-nibs

 

I did not buy it with the Zebra nib, but I did a review.  

Since purchasing the pen, it has remained in daily use.  It is a beautifully made pen that feels much richer than its price.

[Tasmith]

Tried installing a Nikko G nib in my Noodler's Ahab but never could get it to write properly.  So after lots of YouTube and FPN research I decided to purchase a Fountain Pen Revolution flex pen.  Bought a Himalaya version 2 with an extra fine flex nib in green ebonite.  Just love the look and feel of the green ebonite! 

 

However, when I first received it it wouldn't write more than a couple of letters without railroading and getting ink starved.  Tried several different inks, but they all would run dry and would take a lot of effort to get it to start writing again only to run dry again.

 

I contacted Kevin at FPR and he offered to send me a known good feed and nib combination if I couldn't get it working by trying more inks.  I instead tried to fiddle with the ebonite flex feed myself to get it to write wetter but to no avail.  Since I tinkered with the feed, I just ordered another flex feed for three dollars (ordered a couple of different size nibs to make it worth to postage).   Result, pen now writes great!  Will still run dry on occasion after several words, but starts right back up after a few strokes.

 

I'm learning Copperplate, and instead of having to break out my oblique holder with a Nikko G nib and Sumi ink, I can just practice thin and thick line technique without the fuss.  Had it for about a month and I just love it!

 

 

[amberleadavis]

That looks amazing!

[Bo Bo Olson]

On 2/20/2022 at 8:51 PM, Tasmith said:

 

 

 

Modern modified nibs have come quite far....great handwriting also.

[Tasmith]

5 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

Modern modified nibs have come quite far....great handwriting also.

 

[Pamp]

That is lovely!  Your Copperplate is beautiful.  I have a Himalaya V2 also, with the ultra flex nib, and it's one of my favorite pens.  I love it for the exact same reason - I can practice calligraphy without having to get out a dip pen.  I've never had a problem with it railroading or hard starting. I did take it apart to clean it, though, and after I put the converter back in, it leaked. Kevin at FPR sent me another converter, and I put some silicone grease on it, and it's never leaked again. Kevin is great, and his customer service is too. I love his pens, and that ultra flex nib is amazing.

 

Pam

https://anartfulmom.com

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anartfulmompam/

[duckbillclinton]

On 2/1/2022 at 10:10 AM, antoniosz said:

--------------------------------------------------------

Stiffness and strength are two different properties of the material. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lots of good pieces of information, but one incorrect point that I would like to make sure people don't  propagate it.  Tempering, annealing etc.  none of these heat treatment processes does anything appreciable to the stiffness (elasticity) of the nib.   These processes do affect the strength of the metal - i.e. the nib will bend/break at a different force after these techniques. But no, the elastic modulus is not affected.   This is a well known fact in metallurgy of alloys. 

 

Doctor @antoniosz,  it's so wonderful to see your professional inputs/ comments from a true material science point of view.  I have checked out some of your older blogs, they are quite informative and very interesting.  Being a professor of material science, you are a true expert in the field and your suggestions (more precisely, your corrections of my previous post) are absolutely priceless,

 

1. yes, we shall not mix stiffness (which is related to elastic modulus) with strength (which is related to hardness and yield strength improvement obtained from cold work) for metal alloys.  My casual style of explanation indeed may mislead many readers.

 

2. and yes, heat treatment does not affect metal alloy's elastic modulus as it's contributed by the chemical composition of the alloy.

 

As I am fully occupied in recent months, my reply is a month late, my apologies.  I have a lot of things in mind may be of your interest, hopefully I will be able to make more time to post them (no promises, SORRY, I am already falling behind on replying some of the readers and the writing of ink film's impacts on flex nib design...), some of the topics we could discuss would be,

 

1. A more Systematic (statistically appropriate) approach to define flex.  To date, I have collected around 60 vintage flex nib pens (all 14k nibs), without any tinkering, they are mostly rated between full flex to super flex, then, a few wet noodles, and a few semi-flex,  each nib's flex range has been recorded, with additional data collected from several superb vintage pen dealers online, there might be a flex definition (range) all of us could agree on

 

2. Material mechanics (strength of material) and structural mechanics analysis on vintage flex nibs (both fountain pen nibs and tipped dip nibs) and why modern flex nib designs are lacking in performance.  (The importance of ink film stability will also be discussed.)

 

3. Analysis on the possibility of heat treatment to improve vintage flex gold nibs (2 actual cases from my experiments, 1 fully annealed, the other is partial annealed)

 

4. many other small things...

[duckbillclinton]

Recent work, due the need of very fine needle point like wet noodle for reviewing advance math.  The one on the left is the original Pilot Penmanship EF nib size at 0.25mm (based on Pilots online resources), no custom grinding.  The one in the middle is modified Wing Sung (Pilot clone) nib, sized down to 0.17mm, the one on the right is also Wing Sung at 0.2mm.  All 3 are quite smooth on A4 paper (for copier use), especially the 2 Wing Sungs, yet so sharp still manage to be smooth without any scratching.

 

 

Really have not much personal time, so long time no posts, and all my previously planned writings are suspended.  Still I will try to post a new thread of my views on how to systematically rate flex nibs based 60+ vintage 14k flex nib pens and various online shop data.  The spreadsheet is done (only 15 minutes needed:P).

 

[MrkLch]

On the topic of the 'homemade' flexible nib, I point out the discussion on the forum fountainpen.it which adds a new element.

 

https://forum.fountainpen.it/viewtopic.php?t=32508&start=210

[txomsy]

Thanks, it contains interesting food for thought.

[Bo Bo Olson]

On 3/16/2022 at 5:54 AM, duckbillclinton said:

full flex to super flex,???? then, a few wet noodles, and a few semi-flex, 

I've been propagandizing this following flex ladder for the last decade. I don't understand your 'full flex'. Is that what I call maxi-semi-flex?

I have two flex rates between wet Noodle and Semi-flex.

 

More than a decade ago, I had a Rupp nib still my most flexible maxi-semi-flex nib. I circled in a daze, muttering to my self for three days, that was certainly a maxi-semi-flex. It was 'so much more' flexible than my semi-flex pens. Then I went to my 35 pens and found five maxi's hidden in my 20 semi-flex nibs. (Osmai is the brand where one has the most chance a large Diamond and or Supra nib being a maxi...Small Diamond semi-flex, but a couple of fine posters with  30&50 Osmias say that is only mostly) Not my picture, but I use it to show the small Diamond...in this case nib size numbered that I expect as semi-flex in Osmias. In this case, gold plated. Mine are gold or steel. (I have this pen in a bigger 540, with a steel maxi-semi-flex M nib.)

 

 

(Being in Germany, I had been once a semi-flex snob, before I discovered a nice springy regular flex would give me better shading.)

Being in Germany and chasing old cheap pens, I ended up with a lot of semi-flex nibs....so went from semi-flex to maxi-semi-flex with no hesitation.

I had a a black no cap band...pressed plastic ring with marks to show it never had a ring, Predo, a no name war pen with a Degussa superlex nib so I knew that Rupp nib was not superflex.

 

Nail...no tine spread at all...semi-nail..well mashed out to 2 X a light down stroke...P-75.

 

Three X tine spread nib set. To spread the tines more than 3X = springing the nibs sooner than later...one can feel where the nib is forced wider than it wants.

Regular flex/= Japanese 'soft' half moon nib. Can be mashed out to 3 X, can not write maxed. Wearever nibs, some Esterbrooks, the '82-97 Pelikan gold 400/600 and from '82-now 200 steel nibs.

 

Semi-flex goes to 3X with half the pressure of regular flex. Will write maxed...a good way to lighten one's ham fisted Hand. 

Some American '30's/'40's Wahl-Eversharp  and early '50's Shaffers, some English but often German call it prewar to 1970....'65 for Pelikan.

 

Maxi-semi-flex, goes to 3 X with half the pressure of semi-flex, or 1/4th the pressure needed to max a regular flex. Also a pre war to '70 German nib. Swan did make some, as did Australian Shaffer.

 

Superflex....is not just tine spread, but ease of tine flex. Mostly 5-6X, rare outside of Youtube and buy a sprung nib on Ebay, 7X.

When one has enough superflex borders blures as Mauricio says.....but mine is for superflex noobies.

Easy Full Flex, 1/2 a maxi...1/4th of semi-flex....or 1/8th pressure needed to max a regular flex.

Wet Noodle....1/16 of the pressure needed to mas a regular flex.

Weak Kneed Wet Noodle.....a term invented by the English nib grinder John Soroka,.....I have one pre-1920 MB Safety Pen with a Simplo # 6 nib.

I've not decided if it's 1/32 of the pressure needed to maxh a regular flex or 1/64th or in between.

..................................

It looks like some of those cut and ground off nibs could be at least Weak Kneed Wet Noodle...............................and it amazing how much flex can be had for dirt cheap nowadays.

I don't flex use my super flex nibs much** in I don't do calligraphy, just scribble in my normal Rooster Scratch.

**As a fancy lettering machine.

.................................

My 5-6 Wet Noodles are in the lower third of dip pen flexes. I looked for two, the other 4 just fell into my hands. Two, I'd sent off to Francis as 'only' semi-flex came back as Wet Noodles. Mauricio, a superflex expert and superflex pen seller says there is a lot of fiddly work to get the max out of such a nib and feed. Francis fiddles with the best of them. 

 

My Weak Kneed Wet Noodle reaches the middle of dip pen flex rates.

My most flexi nibs are Hunt 99-100-101.

 

[Detman101]

Recently I've felt the urge to get back into "Flex" due to my CIS Oblique Stub just....writing bigger than I wanted right now.
I longed for the naturally thin lines, but the ability to swell them to a larger size for emphasis....again. 
(Like...I wanted to speak softly, but be able to SHOUT when I needed....Instead of shouting all the time.)

This led me back to "Flex Nibs"...

I tried everything I had in-stock at home...and realized why none of them were being used.
So I ordered a Gold "Jowo #6 F-Flex" nib unit from "Galen Leather" in Turkey.
While the nib unit is amazing, writes smooth and consistently and has no issues, it's not reeeeeally a "Flex" nib...its a SOFT-NIB.
See, it just has the cutouts in the middle-sides and the tines don't spread. Looks exactly like this...

Yeah, its one of THOSE "Flex Nibs"....the type that aren't flex nibs...just soft in the middle. I've given it a run and I can see already that this thing will wind up snapping in half in a few weeks just like the other fake "Flex Nibs" did in the past.

So...I went back to FPR wondering why they don't have a Jowo-Compatible nib unit yet....it's been years!!!!!
And to my surprise...THEY DO!! 
No sooner did I see it, than I clicked "BUY" and it's on its way to me!! 
I went with the regular Flex nib, not the UltraFlex...I want a harder time flexing and the UltraFlex nib is just too soft for my heavy-hand.


More to follow after it arrives...

 

-DM-

[tommym]

22 hours ago, Detman101 said:

More to follow after it arrives...

 

-DM-

 

I am looking forward to your review.

 

Tommy

[Detman101]

Review of the "FPR - Jowo-Compatible Flex-Nib" Unit.
Well...this is the return to flexiness and fancyness that I desired. Not wet-noodle flex or super-soft flex like I had in the past...but a nice professional EF-Flex with moderate abilities.
The ink flow on this unit is just about perfect! The plastic feed performs as well as I need for my flexing and also allows for a nice extra-fine line width that i'm GREATLY enjoying after a year with the Oblique-CIS nib and its wide-wet writing. 
I think I'll stay here for a little while...though I'm curious and tempted to order the "FPR - Jowo-Compatible UltraFlex-Nib" Unit. 
I may order it just for funsies...I've wasted money on so much other stuff in the past regarding "Flex", another $20 can't hurt.

But I know for a fact that the regular "Flex" nib unit from FPR is where I feel the most comfort at this point in my life.
Its sturdy enough to hold up to my needs for flex-writing, but also provides the ink-flow and line width that displays great shading without leaking into the pen-cap while being transported. My Opus-88 just functions best with a plastic feed that was designed for it. I had the Jowo-compatible Ebonite Feed from FNF paired with the FPR Flex-Nib previously and it was a wet drippy mess. I couldn't open the aperture the slightest without getting ink all over the place. Far too floody for my needs....
The original plastic feed works best for my needs...and with the FPR EF-Flex nib.
I'm a happy camper again.

 

 

🤠

-DM-

[txomsy]

Congrats on a great finding!