Nib Crack On Waterman 42 Safety

[strelnikoff]

Hello everyone,

 

I have recently bought a vintage Waterman 42. I have bought it through some youngster from apparently an original owner (a man in his 80's) and instantly fell in love with the pen.

 

Outside, the pen seemed in decent shape. I bought it cheap, knowing that there will be some work on it.

 

My first problem was - and still is - this pen was probably never serviced, the cork was dry, but - with some soaking, I have managed to start using it (today).

 

However, immediately I have noticed that someone was obviously tried to straighten the tines, probably that "know it all" youngster.

 

And to my horror - I've noticed that one tine has a crack. Please see below (I tried to take as best photo as I could).

 

 

Does anyone here knows - who or where can I send this pen - to have this crack repaired??? And more than anything - is it possible to repair this crack?

 

 

Please help!

 

 

[Mauricio]

Very sorry for the mishap in your pen. The crack in that tine is the result of either over flexing it or applying unwarranted lateral forces.

​The good news is the damaged nib can be replaced. If it were my pen, I would prefer to replace to install another correct nib that has not been repaired. The value of the pen will be higher than a repaired nib. The writing performance of the nib will also be better with a replacement nib that with a repaired nib. Hope you can sort it all out!

[strelnikoff]

  On 5/24/2017 at 3:13 AM, Mauricio said:

Very sorry for the mishap in your pen. The crack in that tine is the result of either over flexing it or applying unwarranted lateral forces.

​The good news is the damaged nib can be replaced. If it were my pen, I would prefer to replace to install another correct nib that has not been repaired. The value of the pen will be higher than a repaired nib. The writing performance of the nib will also be better with a replacement nib that with a repaired nib. Hope you can sort it all out!

 

 

Thank you for the suggestion.

 

I agree - the damage is probably due to the fatigue and over flexing. Or someone forgot to retract the nib couple of times and applied the cap. Or all together.

I/m ok with replacing the nib - but that would be my last option. The way I see it - this pen is pushing 70 or 80 years or so, and each nib is worth saving, at least an attempt to save it.

If I don't find the way to fix it then replacement will have to happen.

 

I hope someone will know who can I contact about this.

 

Thanks!

[FarmBoy]

John Motishaw

Greg Minuskin

 

Both do welds although they do them very differently. Both do good work.

[pen lady]

Do you live anywhere close to a good jeweller who does laser repairs? Maybe that's a line you could pursue.

[strelnikoff]

  On 5/24/2017 at 5:29 AM, FarmBoy said:

John Motishaw

Greg Minuskin

 

Both do welds although they do them very differently. Both do good work.

Thank you for the information! I'll contact them!

[strelnikoff]

  On 5/24/2017 at 1:07 PM, pen lady said:

Do you live anywhere close to a good jeweller who does laser repairs? Maybe that's a line you could pursue.

 

Yes, but that may be my last option - the crack is too close to the feed, which means feed and nib must be separated. And being 42 safety, it all has to come apart. And there lays another problem - this pen from what I can see, was never maintained. The top section thread is locked/sealed with shellac (as I was told). So to fix the nib, whole pen must come apart. Not sure if a jeweller can do that - but I will start asking if nothing else works.

 

Perhaps laser weld is ultra-concentrated and heat won't damage the feed... I'll check.

 

Ah yes - most of the jewellers around Houston are "professionals" working in large shops like Jared's and similar - and usually send off any extra work that needs to be done to a real jeweller master. Someone who I should talk personally

 

Well, thank you for the suggestion!

[Ron Z]

I've heard of jewelers laser welding the filigree on hard rubber pens with it still on the pen, but I don't know how that turned out. I would think they would want to have the nib out of the pen just so that they can position it as they wish to weld.

 

If the pen hadn't been maintained, chances are that the seal at the back end needs to be replaced. A good pen mechanic could take care of that, and facilitate the nib repair for you while the pen is in the shop.

[pen lady]

I didn't realise that the nib would be so hard to remove. When in doubt defer to Ron, 'cause if he doesn't know what he's talking about, then no one does!!!!!

[FarmBoy]

Crack welds/repairs are almost always done from the back making removal of the nib necessary. In extreme cases one might tack weld the damage to facilitate removal of the nib in one piece. There are possible ways to weld an overlay still on a pen but I do not know of anyone doing said work. I have in the past experimented with doing this but have not followed up on it.

 

The nib shown is damaged more than just the small cracks. The slit is deformed likely from a bad reforming of a bend and there are surface marks. I'd put the cost of repairing this nib at more than a replacement by quite a bit. A 2 size Waterman nib for this pen might run 45 unless it is of some special configuration.

[strelnikoff]

  On 5/24/2017 at 5:32 PM, Ron Z said:

I've heard of jewelers laser welding the filigree on hard rubber pens with it still on the pen, but I don't know how that turned out. I would think they would want to have the nib out of the pen just so that they can position it as they wish to weld.

 

If the pen hadn't been maintained, chances are that the seal at the back end needs to be replaced. A good pen mechanic could take care of that, and facilitate the nib repair for you while the pen is in the shop.

 

I've applied water to the pen for some time (several days, and each day few hours) and the cork started to seal. Nevertheless, it is worth replacing it.

 

I have sent my pen for repair assessment - through gopens.com. They don't usually do repairs (any more) just for repairs sake, only if one is a customer (what I've became recently). Gary will look at the pen and try to repair what is repairable, and for the nib - he may send it to nibmeister.

 

At this point, I don't even care if whole repair costs 200 USD, I just want that pen to work it has such a wonderful flex. And I never thought I'll love safety pens - but I fell in love with this one. Is that normal?

 

I agree - the nib must be removed if it is to be welded. I wish I could have do that myself, but the top section thread is ... well, I couldn't break the connection. Then I read about shellac being used, heat to be applied... and I gave up on any attempts to take care of it myself. If I had a chance to do all that - I would take the nib to jeweler.

 

I wonder - if they do the weld, how much does that affects the flex?

[strelnikoff]

  On 5/25/2017 at 12:02 AM, FarmBoy said:

Crack welds/repairs are almost always done from the back making removal of the nib necessary. In extreme cases one might tack weld the damage to facilitate removal of the nib in one piece. There are possible ways to weld an overlay still on a pen but I do not know of anyone doing said work. I have in the past experimented with doing this but have not followed up on it.

 

The nib shown is damaged more than just the small cracks. The slit is deformed likely from a bad reforming of a bend and there are surface marks. I'd put the cost of repairing this nib at more than a replacement by quite a bit. A 2 size Waterman nib for this pen might run 45 unless it is of some special configuration.

 

Yes, that's what I've noticed too. I wish that youthful annoying "know it all" youngster who sold me the pen (first he took it from the original owner) stayed away from applying his non-existing skills in pen maintenance.

Since I've sent my pen for repair last week - I've suggested to - if the repair is tedious and if it doesn't make sense - to replace it with a new one. But only if it is of equal flex.

Vintage nibs will become scarce one day, and we should try to save all if possible

[Mauricio]

The flex you are seeing at the moment in that cracked nib is not its flexibility, but the result of a cracked nib, in which its two broken pieces separate as much as you want due to being broken. Do not confuse two broken pieces moving apart from each other with a flex nib

 

Should your nib were a flexible nib and repaired from a major crack, the value of that nib will never be the same as if it had an original and unmolested flex nib. Furthermore, those repairs may be appealing from a cosmetic stand point, but in terms of durability and longevity, they will tremendously affect the flexibility, elasticity, responsiveness and many other flex attributes of that nib. It is because of that reason that I suggested you considered sourcing a correct replacement nib for that pen. It will be more economical and its performance will not de affected.

[strelnikoff]

  On 5/30/2017 at 8:36 PM, Mauricio said:

The flex you are seeing at the moment in that cracked nib is not its flexibility, but the result of a cracked nib, in which its two broken pieces separate as much as you want due to being broken. Do not confuse two broken pieces moving apart from each other with a flex nib

 

Should your nib were a flexible nib and repaired from a major crack, the value of that nib will never be the same as if it had an original and unmolested flex nib. Furthermore, those repairs may be appealing from a cosmetic stand point, but in terms of durability and longevity, they will tremendously affect the flexibility, elasticity, responsiveness and many other flex attributes of that nib. It is because of that reason that I suggested you considered sourcing a correct replacement nib for that pen. It will be more economical and its performance will not de affected.

 

Thank you for the suggestion. I will do that!

 

I have quickly calculated the stress and elastic deformation in cracked nib - not that complicated, I've assumed the "crack" is a stress concentration and subtracted the <15 deg element - all plate elements (with few assumptions, thickness is low enough) - I've used Ansys FEM for this.

It shows approximately 4 times larger elastic deformation and few maximum allowable stresses (basically how much could I push it until it get plastic deformation). Naturally - there is no way to measure applied pressure (flex) with cracked nib. So after one hour of playing with finite element modeling - I've decided to ask for a replacement nib.

 

It did occurred to me - when I saw the crack - some of the "flex" must have come from the damage.

 

I can only hope I get that dream flex in a new nib.

 

Thank you for the suggestion - I will write to person I've sent the pen for repair, to forget about welding the nib - and install new #2

[Goudy]

  On 5/24/2017 at 5:19 PM, Strelnikoff said:

 

Yes, but that may be my last option - the crack is too close to the feed, which means feed and nib must be separated. And being 42 safety, it all has to come apart. And there lays another problem - this pen from what I can see, was never maintained. The top section thread is locked/sealed with shellac (as I was told). So to fix the nib, whole pen must come apart. Not sure if a jeweller can do that - but I will start asking if nothing else works.

 

 

The nib and feed of a Waterman safety are a push-fit into the retracting nib carrier, so it ought to be possible to wiggle them out without unscrewing anything. Here's a disassembly video:

 

 

By the way, when you're getting the tine crack welded, ask the repairer to check the vent hole, too. From the pictures, it looks like you may have some hairlines developing there.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Goudy

[strelnikoff]

  On 5/30/2017 at 11:33 PM, Goudy said:

 

The nib and feed of a Waterman safety are a push-fit into the retracting nib carrier, so it ought to be possible to wiggle them out without unscrewing anything. Here's a disassembly video:

 

 

 

 

By the way, when you're getting the tine crack welded, ask the repairer to check the vent hole, too. From the pictures, it looks like you may have some hairlines developing there.

 

I've seen this video, but I haven't paid attention if it is possible to pull the nib out (with feed)... it's in better suited hands now, but I'll take note for future reference.

 

And - good eye !!! It does seems like this nib is properly messed up. I'll get a new nib!