Noodler's Baystate Blue - Does It Change Color Depending On Paper?

[RichardR]

Hey,

I really hate to open another topic on Baystate Blue. But I really don't know how to find ALL the BSB threads that are available, and check whether this has already been comented on (For what is worth, I have searched as best I could via Google, here and elsewhere, but I couldn't find an appropriate thread about this). So then, I thought I might ask everybody a question:

Does YOUR (sample of) Baystate Blue turn purple on plain, white, copy paper (80-90 gsm), and predominantly on such paper? I don't mean a hint or a tinge of purple - rather bright, saturated, vibrant ... purple.

To put a bit more context into it, I must say I just received my 3 oz. bottle of THE ink (ordered on Amazon, shipped by the manufacturer) a few days ago.

I made sure to clean the pen extra well (flushed until water ran clear, THEN flushed with minor concentration dish-soap solution and left it in for 24hrs., THEN flushed until water ran clear of bubbles, and left another 24 hrs. with clean water in it, AND finally flushed dry, and left another 24hrs. to ... well, dry out, with nib resting on absorbent tissue paper - so, I guess the pen was .. clean), then loaded it with THE stuff.

In case anybody is wondering, the pen is a black HERO 616 mini version with an M nib - I had well researched this ink beforehand (but apparently, still not well enough), so I knew well enough to choose a cheap pen. So far (3 days after) the pen behaves perfectly (with no melted plastic/feeder, or flow modification; it actually behaves better than with Diamine Blue Velvet in it; I do expect the rubber sac of the aerometric filler to be stained, but I couldn't care less; we'll see about the rest).

And then I tried it on for size.

First, on a glossy paper notebook - white (don't know what paper the supplier used, because the notebook is internal stationery at the HR firm I work at). And it came out ... purple. I felt my throat going dry.

Secondly, on plain/cheap A4, 75gsm, ECF (Elementary Chlorine Free), Unpunched, Ecolabel copy paper - obviously, white (generic brand, nothing to do with printer manufacturers). And it came out ... purple. I was gutted. Not far from crying (not really, but still...), considering how many inconvenient properties and risks I am ready to put up with, just for this color. As in this BLUE color, not purple color!

Then I needed to scribble something really quick, and the first paper that came to hand was the back of a store receipt (so thin, thermal paper, I would say, and also white), and the closest instrument at hand was the BSB pen. And what do you know - it came out as the perfect, pure, intense and bright cobalt blue I had thought I was buying. Exactly that! Amazed at my discovery, I started scribbling "Test Color" on every paper I had at hand - which means that now I have quite a few books and book covers scribbled on their last page in BSB. And the color stayed blue (albeit with some hints of purple in some cases, but which are BARELY discernible). Also, I checked ALL my results the following day, in plain daylight (on a beautiful sunny day, around noon). And they were unchanged: my (sample of) ink is purple on some papers, and the proper blue on others. And some papers are white, others are cream, and others plain yellow. Thus, it seems that my BSB reacts with the paper and changes hue, for I can think of no other explanations.

Now, I know what many will say: Rhodia, Clairefontaine, Tomoe River, etc.

And that's all fine - to each his own, but I am not really a fountain pen afficionado, nor do I plan on becoming one (I have only 3 inks, and ... let's see, erm... 7 fountain pens, and I really want to stay at this level).

I really place practicality above tastes, and I consider it dandy enough to be using a fountain pen (in spite of the extinct-species/wolly-mammoth looks I get from some...), that I most certainly won't carry Tomoe River pads with me to the meeting room. Nothing wrong with those that will, as I was saying above.

My point, however, to anybody reading this, is that performance on plain copy paper is THE deal breaker for ME, as I won't change paper except entirely accidentally. So it doesn't really help me to know how the ink performs on those FP dedicated papers (actually, I already do considering how much research I put into this color), and/or that I should change stationery. And the color is the deal-breaker part of the performance - as I was saying previously, I will put up with many things, but not with a different hue/color, because that makes it a different ink, actually.

I have also read about reports that Noodler's inks have some relatively looser Q.C.s (i.e.quality controls), in that performance can vary from one batch to the another, within the same product line (for instance, different batches of BSB might behave differently). So then, I am well aware this could be a batch-related rather than a product-related problem. Being thus aware if that as well, I dare (after a mammoth post) phrase my question anew:

Does YOUR (sample of) Baystate Blue turn purple on plain, white, copy paper (80-90 gsm), and predominantly on such paper?

N.B.: for those who don't know/don't remember, would you be so kind as to test it a bit on some copy paper, if possible?

I know it doesn't really do much for you, but I would really appreciate it, and it would mean A LOT to me to know whether I could still like this ink (that otherwise, I have to confess it, I would love in spite of all its other shortcomings... eh, true love i guess they call it, lol)

[Zeeppo]

 

I wrote a sample of Bay Blue using a very wet Noodler's pen on white copy paper above and Moleskine beige paper bellow. neither sample turned purple.

[amberleadavis]

Wow, on those images above, it looks purple to me. BSB has always looked like a blue sharpie on every paper I have tried.

 

http://sheismylawyer.com/She_Thinks_In_Ink/Colors/Blue/slides/2014-Ink_127-BSB.jpg

[amberleadavis]

I also added it to a bunch of fade sheets because it is known fader. Look at the bottom right corner.

 

http://www.sheismylawyer.com/2017_1_Ink/Fade/slides/IMG_20170102_212127.jpg

[Moonshae]

My bottle came yesterday.

 

[FOUR X FOUR]

BSB is like a beautiful evil woman.

[goatgolfer]

I also added it to a bunch of fade sheets because it is known fader. Look at the bottom right corner.

 

http://www.sheismylawyer.com/2017_1_Ink/Fade/slides/IMG_20170102_212127.jpg

Stealing the thread for sure. That is ink sample knolling at it's finest by and attorney no less. I am diminished by even seeing your efforts. Now back to normally scheduled programming....

[amberleadavis]

Ah, thank you.

[Zeeppo]

By the way looked at the ink test again. It is still blue. I think my picture is just not that great

[RichardR]

IMG_20170412_194325.jpg

 

I wrote a sample of Bay Blue using a very wet Noodler's pen on white copy paper above and Moleskine beige paper bellow. neither sample turned purple.

Yes, THIS is the hue that I am getting. EXACTLY as seen on the computer monitor - heavy towards purple. And moreover, I've seen the same purple "heavyness" on the product picture, with Anderson Pens (one of the extremely few vendors where I have encountered it like that - but alas!, i had thought that, since they were in minority, they had been negligent in calibrating their scanner properly).

Thank you so much for taking the effort of posting this - it confirms my suspicions, sorry to say.

[RichardR]

Wow, on those images above, it looks purple to me. BSB has always looked like a blue sharpie on every paper I have tried.

 

http://sheismylawyer.com/She_Thinks_In_Ink/Colors/Blue/slides/2014-Ink_127-BSB.jpg

Hey,

 

That seems to be Rhodia Paper you're using...

But regardless, this hue (i.e. a blue THIS pure) I am getting ONLY on thermal paper...

Thank you so much for posting!...

[RichardR]

My bottle came yesterday.

 

image.jpg

Hey,

 

Thank you so much for posting!

 

Nope, nowhere near that on MY copy paper - as I was saying before, I only get a blue THAT pure on thermal paper - whereas on plain copy paper, I just can't let myself go and say how genuinely purple it is - otherwise i'd begin sobbing...

[RichardR]

Hi,

 

Thank you everyone for your posts and tests!

 

Sorry for the delayed replies, but I just didn't see them - the notifications that somebody posted in the thread - i don't think i've received them actually, 'cause I was looking forward to them...

 

At any rate, since I created the thread, I have ordered another sample of BSB from a Scottish stationery store (on EBAY, 6months after the Amazon purchase) - which, theoretically, should be unrelated to my Amazon-bought batch.
Thus, in my next post, I will attach some pictures with my results, just so that it is clearer for everybody what it was that I had meant.

 

P.S: - for ink afficionados (I'm not one - BUT i will NEVER buy another bottle of ink without sampling it first), let me post the link to this guy's EBAY shop:

 

https://www.ebay.com/usr/stationeryshop-scotland?_trksid=p2047675.l2559

 

Not affiliated with them in any way - yet I am strongly recommending them as this was the ONLY way I could order 29 ink samples (which is quite a bit, isn't it?!) and STILL not pay more on shipping than on the products themselves - as a matter of fact, shipping (to Norway) was almost free - don't know why, I don't like to question miracles when I see them, for fear of disproving them:).

At any rate, the same order from Goulet Pens or from Anderson Pens would have cost me $50 in shipping only, AND I would have had to place an order with each one, as neither had all of the samples I wanted...

 

Once again, thanks for your posts!!!, and I look forward to come back with the actual pictures. Today however is general cleaning day in my apartment, so it will have to wait a bit!

[RichardR]

BSB is like a beautiful evil woman.

Well, that is PRECISELY the question: that she is evil, is quite clear to all - but just how BEAUTIFUL is she, really?

[RichardR]

My bottle came yesterday.

 

image.jpg

Actually, one question that just came to mind - do you happen to know if, by any chance, your paper is/was TCF - Totally Chlorine Free?

 

I know that TCF (and even ECF) paper tends to be widely UNavailable in the US - but there's always a chance...

After all, this is my last ditch effort in trying to stay with this ink: to sample BSB on TCF (which TCF is unbelievably hard to get by individuals, even here in Scandinavia/Europe - as most vendors prefer to sell it in batches of 2500 pages, as opposed to the regular 500 pages of a plain batch).

 

At any rate, I have prepared another order for water-resistant (BLUE) ink samples (water resistance - pretty much the only thing that still interests me about BSB after my huge disappointment so far), so in case i find something i like/ i like more, it's buh-bye BSB!

 

And in case anybody is curious, I haven't placed the order yet (around 22 samples, out of which 9 that I'm not sure the vendor has in stock) - don't ask me what they look like yet, because I am still waiting for an answer regarding some hard-to-find ones.

As soon as I place it, i will post about it, if anybody is interested...

 

Once again, thank you for posting your sample!

[eharriett]

I do get a purple on some paper, blue on others, and still more of a "blurple" on others. Regardless, it is LOUD!

 

And extraordinarily feathery. It would be the one ink I use for writing out greeting cards, but have you ever tried that? Mondo feathering!

[RichardR]

I do get a purple on some paper, blue on others, and still more of a "blurple" on others. Regardless, it is LOUD!

 

And extraordinarily feathery. It would be the one ink I use for writing out greeting cards, but have you ever tried that? Mondo feathering!

Hey,

 

I think I know what you mean regarding feathering ...

I have (accidentally) noticed it too, on some types of copy paper that I have tested it on. At least in that respect I was lucky, as the copy paper I have at home is very well behaved like that - it does not allow feathering at all, almost.

Still, I should specify that the ink has been loaded (for quite some time now) in a Platinum Preppy Fine nib, 0.3mm (I think they say, though it is a bit more, trust me) which, as is well known, is a very fine one - compared to European/American nibs at least.

In the Hero 616 Small ( I estimate it to be a Medium - 0.5mm or more), there was some feathering, but only slightly more...

 

As an aside, I have acquired quite a few types of copy paper, 1 sheet per type, from a prints&copies boutique, or whatever it is called... Their eyes bulged quite a bit upon hearing of only 1 (one) sheet of paper per type/brand (and I also went from 75 gsm all the way to 160gsm, just to see what would happen), and they didn't know what to charge me (in the end I suggested 0.5$ per sheet, and they took it, ). Even so, the color continued to be same (blurple, to various degrees, but clearly a redish-blue), whereas feathering occurred only on one type. Therefore, if copypaper is your thing as well, I suppose I can suggest trying out a few other types.

 

As for the color issue, I have a weak suspicion that it might have something to do with the paper's chlorine content. That is to say, maybe fountain pen paper is TCF (Totally Chlorine Free), or maybe it has less of of it than ECF/non-ECF copy paper, or something to that effect... What I do know is that, when cleaning the sink of BSB with a diluted (10%) solution of bleach - as the BSB manufacturer, Noodler's, recommends -, the BSB stains turn momentarily to faint purple, before disappearing. It was this that made me think of chlorine-the chlorine content of paper.

 

Regarding thermal paper, it is well known that it is coated with various chemicals (to allow for the thermal printing process), but from what I've checked, none of these chemicals contain chlorine in their formulas.

Furthermore, it could be that they keep the ink from penetrating deeper into the paper fiber - but this is pure speculation on my part.

At any rate, even on thermal paper - super-thin as it is, I have not experienced significant feathering (please, give it a try for yourself, if curious): the line widens (same nib - probably due to the thinness of the paper), but it stays properly defined - only marginal feathering, and only in few cases (end-of-words, where the pen tends to pause a bit longer, at least with my handwriting).

In case you haven't come across it in my original post in this thread, thermal paper is just receipt paper.

 

At any rate, thank you so much for sharing your experience on this!

[RichardR]

I do get a purple on some paper, blue on others, and still more of a "blurple" on others. Regardless, it is LOUD!

 

And extraordinarily feathery. It would be the one ink I use for writing out greeting cards, but have you ever tried that? Mondo feathering!

P.S.: Erm, no...I haven't tried it. Not with a fountain pen, and not with BSB in a fountain pen either.

The only times I write greeting cards, are before Christmas, and before Easter. And then I usually use some ultra-fine fineliners (from Staedtler - I know many people are into all sorts of details, that's why I am mentioning it), red for Christmas, and red or lime-green for Easter.

 

I know I am making this whole thread waaay to much about myself, but I am mentioning it anyway in case somebody else has the same experiences.

 

What I wanted to say was that in 12 years of pre-university school (primary, secondary, and upper-secondary=high-school), I've written only in cursive, and only with fountain pens - we were forbidden to use anything else before high-school, and were strongly recommended not to use anything else in high-school, as other instruments would ruin our cursive, or so they said.

And in all that time, I have used only 2 inks: a lifeless, dull, washed-out, Prussian Blue/Navy Blue from HERO (absolutely no personality, and totally lacking in saturation), and a Pelikan 4001 Royal Blue in high-school - which (to me) seemed so heavy towards purple (and I associate purple with gratuitous frenzy, for some reason), that I felt like having drunk 5 Red Bulls (at least until I got used to it - the ink, not the Red Bull).

So that, to this day, I can't look upon navy blue inks without my mood changing to that of a rainy day, respectively to that of Speedy Gonzalez on caffeine - in the case of royal blues. And no, I'm not hyperactive, bi-polar, manic-depressive, nor anything NEAR that - God forbid! I'm just an average Joe who had been using too much of an ink, for too long a time:D

 

Thus, my eagerness for BLUE, just blue - not dark blue, not sea blue, not royal blue, not aquamarine, not sky-blue, not turquoise/cyan - just pure, unadulterated, intense blue. When I first saw BSB ( on a computer screen) I felt like this was the ink that I had been unknowingly looking for, my entire life - just like getting married to your soul-mate, hahaha!

 

After doing my homework and being reasonably convinced that I what saw (at least as far as monitors go) was what I was getting, I finally said:" From now on, I want you, BSB, to become my ink, until...well, until the bottle breaks (us) up.art"! (actually, I take that back - I wouldn't want a BSB bottle breaking apart, on my worse enemies...)

 

And no sooner said than done, I placed my order (with Amazon - this modern Dolly Levi, that parts men with their money, but introduces them to their dreams;)... I paid more on the shipping (around$25) than on the ink - 'cause, like any self-respecting vixen (ink), it HAD to arrive to Norway by UPS (as if regular First-Class-Mail was beneath it, and moreover, I went personally to the UPS expedition center to pick it up, as it was Easter week, and the delivery guys hadn't found me at home, and I was risking not seeing my precious until well after Easter - I'm telling you, this ink was capricious from the get-go ), and ...

... and then I discovered the (BSB) lady was a tramp (not unlike with a real "soul-mate", in many cases, as many have experienced ...) - broke my heart!

 

I vowed to myself I'd never get tied down to another ink AGAIN, without sampling it first - I wonder if this is what they'd call "playing the field" when it comes to inks, , or if this is how good guys get ruined by evil vixens, for all other girls, looooooool!

 

After my disappointment with BSB, I have started ordering samples, , in hope of finding another (ink) soul-mate, and I have to admit that I find Iroshizuku Kon-peki such a remarkable and well-balanced blue/turquoise mix, that I couldn't help myself from using it, if it had been water-resistant. Iroshizuku Ama-Iro is quite remarkable as well. Still, they both seem aloof - distant and cold, compared to my ideal of the BSB, i.e. not the real BSB, but the computer-monitor-ideal of it. Oh well, I think I'll survive!

 

Lol, once again, apologies for the me-me-me long post, if you've managed to reach this point:D

Edited March 5, 2018 by RichardR

[amberleadavis]

So, did you decide that the acidity of the paper made a difference to color?

[RichardR]

So, did you decide that the acidity of the paper made a difference to color?

Not sure it is the acidity, but rather, the chlorine content - that's my current working hypothesis, at least...

After all, sodium hypochlorite - NaClO, isn't acidic at all - it is quite alkaline.

Household bleach is even more alkaline, as it also contains sodium hydroxide - NaOH.

Yet, as I suppose you know, Noodler's recommends a 10% solution of bleach for removal of BSB stains, and it does work.

I'll know better when I test BSB on TCF paper - but even then I wouldn't be able to say with 100% certainty that it is the chlorine, as I am not an expert in paper or ink chemistry.

What I would be able to say, with 100% certainty, is whether or not I give up on BSB entirely, and forever...