Parker Victory Barrel Insrcription's

[Ricky2011]

Just aquired a different siver mk1 victory currently going through customs at the moment.

 

will post pic when I get it.

 

best

 

rick

[peterg]

Nothing is ever simple - there seems to be some conflicting information regarding the earliest date for the Victory, so really now not sure about dates for this model.

In the Shepherd/Zazove Duofold book, they comment ............ "The Parker Victory Pen, a sub brand, was the only Parker model made solely at Newhaven" ...... and if you combine that comment with the fact Parker didn't start production at Newhaven until 1941 - then it seems safe to say there won't be any Victories made prior to that year.

 

In Andreas Lambrou's book 'Fountain Pens Vintage and Modern' he says .......... "It is believed that during the 1930s both Duofolds and Victories were produced in a wide range of finishes for the U.K. market." On page 129 Mr. Lambrou shows three Victories for which he provides a date of "c. 1935".

 

Some of the earliest Victories were made in some great colours, but these now seem to be scarce....... various marbled and herringbone colours.

Lots of conflicting information. It is believed that Valentines made batches of pens for Parker prior to the take over. This is likely as they produced a copy of the German Omas (around just after they were a Parker subsidary) in the 1930's. It may well be that Valentines designed the Victory during the 1930's based on Parker designs.

Also, the pen was not made solely at Newhaven. There are also Canadian produced Victories.

[Ricky2011]

Hi Peterg,

 

thanks yes it appears the wider single bands are canadian.

 

thanks for the info.

[ENewton]

My Mk 1 has a nib that reads Parker 14K England 20. Don't most Victories have nibs marked N?

 

What is the difference? I know that N stands for Newhaven, but what does 20 signify?

[PaulS]

I believe the early Mk. 1 bandless cap pens do not have N on the nib - I have a couple like this in lined rose silver and burgundy, one of which carries the number 20 (then a gap) followed by the number 9, on the nib. Can't remember now if this is some form of date code or something else. Northlodge might know.

It doesn't appear to fit in with the aerometric Duofold range of numbers, and may be a combination of a Canadian code plus date code.

[Ricky2011]

This is what my current selection of mkI looks like

[mitto]

Great collection, Ricky. I particularly like the one at the far right with the wider cap band. Doesnt it look like a Challenger?

[Ricky2011]

I was thinking more televisor. I am sure that that it has already been discussed on this forum.

[Ricky2011]

Is @AJP around I think he said he had some victories!!

[PaulS]

attached picurture showing nibs from what I'm sure are a couple of Mark IV A/F pens (1948 - 52). The left hand nib with very broad point came from this morning's hunting - and I'm not remotley a nib expert, so unsure if this is a broad, italic, stub, or something else entirely. There is some flex to the tines, and it produces a very wide line of ink.

Am sure these are both Newhaven nibs, although only the fine nib shows upper case N - the other has an imprint of ENGLAND - as we know, nibs are replaced more than any other part, so one or the other, or neither may now have their original nib.

Would be interested to hear the thoughts of others please as to how to categorize this very broad tip.

[rbrummer]

Here are my bandless-variety Victories. Unfortunately some are quite polished but I'll look at the imprints - I think both of the "televisory" plastics here are Canadian.

 

I also have one of the black variety but I'm missing the clip; if anyone knows a seller who might stock the repair parts and could point me in the right direction I'd appreciate it.

 

[ENewton]

Very nice! Thank you for letting us see your collection.

[PaulS]

yes, very nice indeed - more comprehensive than my few. If you felt very much in the renovation mood, I suspect that the oxidation of button and cap terminal, on that seventh from the left - possibly a light and dark burgundy peal and black example - could be removed without too much trouble. Some Micro Mesh water based liquid polish might be suitable. That black lined pearl is a real cracker.

Edited July 23, 2017 by PaulS

[Ricky2011]

great collection Rick..

 

nice that we have moved on to nibs as two of my victories have the parker 14K England 20 nib (which i was reading a post from Adamon, that it is corrct for victories) my other one has parker duofold pen p. nib.

the rest have the Parker 14K Pen N (N stands for Newhaven)

 

found my missing green marble- see my collection now.

[ENewton]

This link appeared in my Facebook feed recently. The fellow in the video seems very pleasant and obviously appreciates the models.

 

My Mk 1 Victory has the nib he shows on the Mk IV. I wrote to the person who posted the video and asked about the apparent anomaly; in his prompt reply, he speculated that my pen might have been assembled at just the time when the nibs marked N were superseded by the ones marked 20. He did not cite any other authority on the succession of nibs.

 

[PaulS]

nibs seem to give rise to much confusion - they probably get changed more than any other part, but there seems no doubt that the correct early nib for Victories are those showing the figure 20, and they appear not to show N, but do carry the imprint ENGLAND. I have a 20 imprinted nib, on a Mk. I pen, that also carries a date code of 9, which I'm thinking refers to 1949 - then again I have another 20 imprinted nib, on an A/F Victory, that additionally carries the figure 4 with three dots underneath. This I assume to imply first quarter 1954 ............. only it has a small figure 2 imprinted on the barrel - so could be an example of a replacement nib??

 

I have some Mk. I Victories that do carry the N, but again there's always the possibility that they've been the subject of a nib exchange, but it does appear to be a probability that there aren't any nibs that carry both N and ENGLAND, although my small sample collection of only eight pre feather-clip (Duofold) Victories is a tad few in number for statistical reliability.

 

What date the N replaced the word ENGLAND, on nibs, for Victories, I've no idea - but as a guestimate possibly 1942/43? Parker may well have started at Newhaven in 1941, but the books (if they're to be believed) suggest that initially parts were sent from Canada and assembled in Sussex - the first components to be made at Newhaven, we are told were nibs, and these were marked N .............. possibly for Duofolds only and not Victories, with the earliest of Victories (1941 ?) fitted with the above mentioned dedicated '20' imprinted nibs, as opposed to Duofold nibs.

 

No idea as to how long nibs carrying the No. 20, were fitted to Victories - I've more of this model without the No. than I have with the 20.

Presumably the habit stopped prior to the introduction of the aero. Victories (in 1953?), when the nib numbering system changed.

 

As to the Video, my thoughts are that there is perhaps a little more depth regarding the differences in details between some of the early Victories - the Mk. 1 and the Mk. IV ( A/F) - and this might have been explained in more detail by the narrator, but otherwise I'm sure the guy knows his stuff - probably lots more than me. Drawing attention to the above problems caused by nib replacement is also of value, as many folk - like myself when I started - don't always appreciate a pen needs its authentic original nib if it's to be used for reliable dating and record value.

 

sorry this is long winded - it may also be lacking in accuracy - so, fire away and shoot me down and correct wherever necessary. thanks.

Edited August 13, 2017 by PaulS

[ENewton]

Oh, thank you for all this additional information!

 

The nib on my Mk 1 Victory has the number 20 with nothing like a date code after it, and it is marked England.

[PaulS]

the problem is that 'this additional information' may not be entirely accurate - sometimes I tend to fly a kite in the hope that others more learned will contribute - and put me right.

There's also the perennial problem of replacement nibs throwing a spanner in the works and confusing us. It's possible that your nib might have been a Canadian made example - simply imprinted 20 at the request of Parker as they knew it was going into a Victory (a pen sold and made for all intents and purposes in the U.K. only). On the face of it, the absence of the N does suggest it wasn't made in Sussex, but since it's probably an early nib then I'm unsure as to why the lack of date figure, or quarter dots.

I do have at least one Newhaven post 1953 aero. Slimfold that carries a date figure and quarter dot code.

 

the dating of Victory nibs is a subject that needs some concentrated thought and probably evidence from a lot more examples, in order to feel comfortable that any comments are reliable.

Edited August 13, 2017 by PaulS

[mitto]

I agree that dating English Parkers from the imprints/marking on the nibs seems, sometimes, to be a challenge. There are nibs on Slimfolds (and other aero Duofolds) that are not dated. And there are nibs on pens with datecodes that do not match with the timelines of those pen models.

Also, there are nibs on pens with numbers not corresponding with the model of the pen.

But I like all the English nibs. Right or wrong for a given pen model if in case they fit (and write) well.

[peterg]

Cat and pigeons... Might it be a pre Parker Parker Victory? Parkers contacts with Valentine's probably go back to the early 1930's when they started manufacturing Osmia pens, which had been a Parker subsidiary until the end of 1929, through the good offices of a former Parker salesman.

 

Shepherd & Zazove say that Valentine's made batches of streamline Duofolds during the 1930's, and the Victory is only a variation of the Duofold. There is talk of the first Victories being produced around 1935.