Copper Or Brass Kaweco Liliput? How Soft Is The Copper? Oh... And Nibs

[ManofKent]

I'm after a pocket pen that I can throw in a bag, stick in pockets and not worry about it snapping,leaking or the cap coming off and the Liliput looks ideal. Think robust!

 

I think the extra weight (and opportunity to develop patina) make the brass or copper models worth the substantial price hike over the aluminium versions, but I'm not sure which to go for. Aesthetically the copper edges it for me, but I'm wondering whether the brass might be tougher. How thick walled is the copper? I'm worried that the copper could be deformed by accidentally sitting on it etc.

 

I'm also unsure of which nib to go with - my recent experience is pretty much exclusively with Japanese pens. I like a medium but don't mine a fine nib with Pilot, would a Kaweco fine be best? Ideally I like a moderately wet flow with a hint of feedback (I found a Lamy Safari fine nibs gave the right line width but was unbearably scratchy). Are replacement nibs available (I've only seen ones for the Sport)?

 

Any thoughts appreciated.

 

 

[LizB]

I have a copper Liliput but I don't throw it around in my bag, so I can't speak of its resilience to damage, but it feels sturdy. I think it would take some force to dent or deform it. The patina is also very attractive.

 

I tried it with a 1.1mm italic nib and it was very dry and didn't provide enough ink for that nib. With an EF nib it has no problems, but in my experience it is not a wet pen.

 

One thing I really don't like about it is the smell. You know when you handle copper coins, it has that thick metallic smell and I find the smell actually puts me off using the pen. It does seem to be fading a bit now, but that might be because I am using it less.

 

[aeba]

Liliputs use the same Bock triple 060 units which the metal Sports use. So that won't be a problem.

 

But I have to agree with @LizB that Kaweco's tend to be dry writers, unless you do some tinkering. And yes, the pen will have that copper or brass smell. So will your hand.

[langere]

I have the Bronze version and like it a lot. I have used it traveling so it had to take some abuse. It got through it with flying colors. You do not have to worry about damaging that little pen!

 

Erick

[ManofKent]

Thanks all. I hadn't considered the smell, brass would probably linger less.

[ManofKent]

Thanks for peoples help. A brass Liliput was waiting for me last night.

 

I found the weight worked well for me, and I didn't mind the size for writing (although I have to say despite seeing photos, until it's in your hand it's difficult to appreciate exactly how small it is).

 

I went with a fine nib and an extra 1.1 italic. Out of the box the fine writes okay, if a little dry and with the very occasional skip. I'll write with it for a while before deciding whether I need to fiddle with the flow. The 1.1 has so little flow it's essentially unusable - that's going to require some work, but at least the replacement nib/feeds are cheap enough that it's not a disaster if I make a mess of it.

 

The machining of the brass really impressed me, and unscrewing a posting whilst taking a second or two was so pleasurable I can't see me finding it a fiddle in the least.

 

The flow issues take the shine of what is a lovely little bit of engineering.

[aeba]

Too bad about the flow, but unfortunately not unexpected either.

 

If you are going to unscrew the nib unit multiple times, you may want to consider greasing those threads the unit has. At some point you may have nib and feed on your hands, while that collar / housing covering the feed is stuck in the grip section.

[ManofKent]

Too bad about the flow, but unfortunately not unexpected either.

 

If you are going to unscrew the nib unit multiple times, you may want to consider greasing those threads the unit has. At some point you may have nib and feed on your hands, while that collar / housing covering the feed is stuck in the grip section.

 

Thanks for the tip!

 

A thin plastic shim eased between the nib and feed, and gently eased down the top of the tines from the breather hole got the fine nib flowing much better. Hopefully the italic won't require too much more work. When the barrels have been so well engineered it seems such a peculiar oversight that the nibs don't flow freely with their own ink straight from the rather nice tin.

[aeba]

 

Thanks for the tip!

 

A thin plastic shim eased between the nib and feed, and gently eased down the top of the tines from the breather hole got the fine nib flowing much better. Hopefully the italic won't require too much more work. When the barrels have been so well engineered it seems such a peculiar oversight that the nibs don't flow freely with their own ink straight from the rather nice tin.

Agreed. Al-Sport is close to being the pen I would recommend to newbies. But then many of the nibs are... dry, or worse. Personally I suspect that Kaweco doesn't do anything to the nib units they get from Bock. (Why's that? Some of Kara's kustoms pens have exactly same problems that Kaweco has.)

 

Some one around here suggested last year, that maybe people should start sending Kaweco some emails about this instead of tinkering with the nibs by themselves. Back then, I didn't agree with that. Now, I am starting to agree.

[OakIris]

I hope you like your brass Liliput. I have the Liliput Brass Wave and like it quite a bit, though I do find screwing the cap on the back of the barrel for posting IS a bit fiddly, but hopef\ully that will get better with practice. I also have a Brass Sport. I don't notice the smell of the brass at all, not much even when I hold the pens right up to my nose - I think I can smell the leather from the case I made for them more than the metal, lol.

 

The Kaweco nibs I have tried in both of these pens are VERY dry, skipping and unpleasant to write with. I have tried their 14K gold BB, steel BB, gold-colored steel B and steel M nibs - out of the box, all were rather awful! The 14K BB has been set aside for a nibmeister to deal with, and I haven't worked on the steel BB as yet either, but after using a brass shim to increase the flow, per methods shown by srbebrown, and doing some smoothing with micro-mesh, both nibs now write nicely with acceptable flow. I put the Medium nib on the Liliput and the Broad nib on the Sport. I also have a Kaweco stub that I haven't tried and a fine nib coming to me on a AL Raw Sport; I imagine both of those nibs will need work, too.

 

In another thread someone wrote that as these were meant as travel pens Kaweco deliberately made the flow very dry to save on ink consumption. They have achieved their goal, if that is true - the pens are unusable out of the box, at least for me, so of course they will save on ink, you don't even want to fill them, let alone use them!

 

These brass Kaweco pocket pens are lovely to look at, have a great feel in the hand, and, once the nibs are working the way they should have before Kaweco let them leave the factory, they are very nice to write with, too. They are not pens that I would recommend to a novice or someone unwilling to tweak their pen nibs. (Sorry about the angry red, lol, but, really, pens this expensive should write just as well as a Pilot Metropolitan - a true beginner's pen - does from the very first stroke!)

 

Holly

Edited March 27, 2017 by OakIris

[ManofKent]

 

These brass Kaweco pocket pens are lovely to look at, have a great feel in the hand, and, once the nibs are working the way they should have before Kaweco let them leave the factory, they are very nice to write with, too. They are not pens that I would recommend to a novice or someone unwilling to tweak their pen nibs. (Sorry about the angry red, lol, but, really, pens this expensive should write just as well as a Pilot Metropolitan - a true beginner's pen - does from the very first stroke!)

 

Holly

 

100% agreed. The medium nib only took 15 mins or so with plastic shims, the stub probably took an hours work with shims and a nail buffer. I'm really happy with how they write now, and the work wouldn't put me off ordering another Kaweco. However if a beginner asked for a recommendation I'd never recommend one, or at least not with a large caveat.

 

I love being able to chuck a pen in my pocket and not worry about, and don't find the cap screwing an issue. I'll probably get another in a different finish at some point or try the larger sport, but I'm very disappointed at how the nibs work out of the box.

[OakIris]

It is certainly surprising how little thought Kaweco puts into their nibs, given how carefully they seem to design the rest of the pen. The nibs on my $2-4 Jinhao's out perform the Kaweco nibs right from the first use, and that makes so little sense to me.

 

In my mind, the reason to have a fine writing instrument like a fountain pen is to have an instrument with which you can write and with which you enjoy writing. I bet the vintage pens that the "old" Kaweco pen company made had nice nibs on them, otherwise I can't see how they have lasted as a pen manufacturer for well over a century.

 

Holly

[farmkiti]

Sorry for such a late reply, but I feel so strongly on this issue about the nibs I simply had to weigh in. I totally agree that Kaweco should exercise a much larger degree of quality control on the nibs they put in their pens. Now, I feel I must preface my comments by saying that I love Kaweco Sports and Liliputs; they fit my hand beautifully (I have very small hands). Not to mention that they are both adorable and extremely well made. I have lots of them, in several finishes.

 

But their nibs - OMG! I have tried and tried to tweak their nibs by flossing the tines and trying to spread them apart a little, but with little effect. I don't think I'm very good at it. But considering the cost of some models of these pens, I shouldn't HAVE to fiddle so much with the nibs just to get them writing decently! Since my tweaking efforts have not worked well, I have resorted to just buying new nibs until I get some that write well. And when they write well, they write VERY well. But even though they don't cost very much, I do consider it wasted money, and it does add up, because like I said, I have lots of their pens.

 

I was wondering if, at this later date, anyone has contacted Kaweco to discuss this issue? And if so, what type of response did you get? Somehow, I have the foreboding feeling that if I contact Kaweco as I am considering, I will probably get a stock response that basically means that they don't care and don't intend to do anything about it. But this might just be my paranoia. Has anyone else had any experience with the company?

[aeba]

Few people have contacted Kaweco that the nib they got wasn't up to the work, and receiver new nib units. If I remember correctly, those people also said that Kaweco didn't give just a stock reply. Now, what they would say about suggestion of doing QA to the Bock nibs... I wouldn't know. Go ahead and try, I'll be interested in hearing what they say about it.

[TheDutchGuy]

I've had a dry experience with a Dia2 with M nib. I've had great experiencies with three different F nibs, one of which is in my all-time favourite all-day every-day pen (the AL Sport), the other two of which are rotated in my Classic Sport (which I use for different colours and sometimes I use a spare nib unit).

[Laurmann2000]

 

ManofKent I'm wondering,now that you've had you liliput for a while, how you like it? Has it patina'd and does it leave your hands smelling of metal after using it? I'm just considering a new Liliput and am debating between the brass/brass wave and the black or regular silver. Also how is the weight of the brass in your hands? Thank you.

 

[gammada]

I did contacted Kaweco after buying an AL Sport and a spare F nib, the response I've got wasn't your stock manufacturer reply one-size-fits-all. They were very kind, helpful and even sent a replacement nib. Unfortunately, it got lost or stolen in the mail and I never got it (common ocurrence in this country unfortunately).

 

Nonetheless, they send a PDF with some tips on how to solve skipping or cold start issues that somehow worked on the stock M nib. The F nib is still sitting unused in its plastic container with pretty much null flow, even after fiddling extensively with it.

 

Conversely, my little Sport Classic Demostrator, which I converted to an eyedroppper from day one, is quite a wet writer that required no fiddling at all. Also its nib has a tiny bit of springiness that results in a nice line variation. I've even used inks such as J. Herbin 1670 Ocean Blue and Stormy Grey on it, and flow remains pretty consistent.

[e17]

Just my 2 cents

I also had issue with my copper liliput. It was very dry, hard starts, etc.

I first went with the Noodler's Blue-Black because I think it flows well, but at the end I flushed it because it clogged.

 

I then switched to Kaweco blue-black in cartridges and it works far better. And with the same ink but in bottle, I have no more issue. Its seems that this solution is working even better than the cartridges.

 

I did some work on my M nib too. The ink channel was not well aligned on the feed channel, so I moved it left and right several times until it was aligned in a better way.

 

So I really like this little pen. But yes, at that price, I shouldn't have to play with the nib.

Do I feel frustrated because I cannot use any type (brand) of ink in this FP? Well, I do not have enough ink to try, so... not really. But it's like buying a car and being binded to buy their gas! This should not be.

 

 

Oh... one thing I've noticed: on blogs and reviews... these pens are amazing and nobody has issues on them. When you search in Google "kaweco liliput issues", you have tons of comments related to ink flow on forums as this one. FPN rocks when it's time to have "real" and unbiased opinion!