MB Meisterstuck: Design Imitated by Other Brands?..

[QM2]

 

I might be slow to catch on, or maybe it's just because the pens are such different writers that it never occurred to me to compare them visually --

 

But are the designs for Sailor 1911 and Platinum Very Presidential intentional imitations of the MB Meisterstuck prototype? Or is that design simply some sort of classic brand-independent look that has been around since the early 1910's when all these companies were just starting out?

 

I cannot help but notice how similar they are, down to the clip design and the trims.

 

QM2

 

[Shangas]

The Meisterstuck (Masterpiece) design came into being in 1924. It has remained Montblanc's most famous design ever since. I've seen it copied on countless pens, so yes, I would say that the design has been copied (similiarly) by other pen-companies.

[QM2]

The Meisterstuck (Masterpiece) design came into being in 1924.

 

But I thought the Sailor 1911 design was, well -- from 1911!

No?...

 

QM2

[Srehman]

I believe the Sailor came out later; the 1911 refers to the year of the company being founded.

[bluemax]

Whoever came first, I must say that I do think that the sailor pips them all aesthetically. When compared side by side, I always think the MB looks to thin & long, but the sailor got the overall proportions just that little bit better.

 

That said, I have one of each and wouldn't trade any of them

 

regards

 

Bren

[QM2]

I believe the Sailor came out later; the 1911 refers to the year of the company being founded.

 

Right I know that, but I just thought that the design for the 1911 model was supposed to be a homage to the original design from that year. I guess not!

 

It's just funny, because I have a MB Meisterstuck (Chopin, platinum trim), and I never really cared for the look of the whole series. I prefer pens tat are flat on top -- the Sailor Sapporo rather than the 1911, the Aurora Talentum rather than the Ipsilon, etc. I have the Sailor 1911 sterling, but because of the difference in color scheme and materials, it never occurred to me that it looks like the Meisterstuck. Then recently I got the Sailor resin Maki-e "Owl", and it is basically a maki-e design painted onto a black Sailor 1911. When I saw it lying next to the Chopin, I was shocked at how similar they are. I've gotten used to thinking of Sailor as such a unique pen, and such a different creature from MB, that the realisation was a little jarring!

 

QM2

Edited May 17, 2007 by QueenMargot2

[jpolaski]

Japanese companies copying German design is nothing new. That's how Japanese cameras came into being. If you follow each Japanese camera company's designs back, you'll see that it starts with a Leica (Kwanon [Canon], and Minolta) or Contax (Nikon). The germans were always wonderful engineers, but the Japanese could do it quicker and cheaper.

[georges zaslavsky]

I like Sailors but their biggest flaws are no piston filling system available and small ink capacity.

[QM2]

Hmm, but what about Pentax? Didn't Asahi make the first pentaprism?

 

QM2

 

 

Japanese companies copying German design is nothing new. That's how Japanese cameras came into being. If you follow each Japanese camera company's designs back, you'll see that it starts with a Leica (Kwanon [Canon], and Minolta) or Contax (Nikon). The germans were always wonderful engineers, but the Japanese could do it quicker and cheaper.

 

[QM2]

I like Sailors but their biggest flaws are no piston filling system available and small ink capacity.

 

Well, the Chopin is a cartridge/converter, so the comparison does not hold there. Is the 146 a piston?

 

QM2

[kaisede]

I like Sailors but their biggest flaws are no piston filling system available and small ink capacity.

 

Well, the Chopin is a cartridge/converter, so the comparison does not hold there. Is the 146 a piston?

 

QM2

 

I have the Chopin and 1911 full size. The Chopin's converter holds at least twise as much ink as the Sailor converter.

[bluemax]

I like Sailors but their biggest flaws are no piston filling system available and small ink capacity.

 

Aah, but what about the Realo? <_<

[HDoug]

I've noticed the similarity between the Sailor 1911 and a number of other pens and the Meisterstuck, and it bothers me. I have a Sailor 1911m, but a demonstrator so it avoids the "copy cat" look. My dad had a Contax rangefinder and a Nikon S2 and the Nikon rangefinders did indeed copy the form of the Contax, and the Canon rangefinders copied the look of the Leica. Actually, I believe it went further than copying the look -- the lens mounts were very similar also, to the point of being able to put Canon lenses on the Leica, and Nikon lenses (Nikkor) on the Contax. My dad told me that American photojournalists (remember Life magazine?) "discovered" Japanese cameras when covering the Korean war. They'd put some Japanese glass on their German steel and found it a good combination. Ironically (and somewhat tragically), Zeiss is now owned by the Japanese Kyocera and made in Japan.

 

Anyway... that's why one day I'd like to own a MB 146. It's the archetypal "fountain pen." IMO.

 

Doug

Edited May 17, 2007 by HDoug

[jpolaski]

Hmm, but what about Pentax? Didn't Asahi make the first pentaprism?

 

QM2

 

 

Japanese companies copying German design is nothing new. That's how Japanese cameras came into being. If you follow each Japanese camera company's designs back, you'll see that it starts with a Leica (Kwanon [Canon], and Minolta) or Contax (Nikon). The germans were always wonderful engineers, but the Japanese could do it quicker and cheaper.

 

 

Actually, Contax did in 1938, but with WWII kicking off, it was scrapped until after the war. Exacta had one around the same time as well.

[georges zaslavsky]

Well, the Chopin is a cartridge/converter, so the comparison does not hold there. Is the 146 a piston?

QM2

Yes it is a piston filler. I will buy another 146 I think because the one I inherited is more than excellent.

[QM2]

Yes it is a piston filler. I will buy another 146 I think because the one I inherited is more than excellent.

 

I know where you can get a very, very good deal on a new one. Although wait, you are in France -- so perhaps you have access to better prices in the EU.

 

QM2

[Kalessin]

The 136 and 139 Meisterstuck models preceeded the 146 and 149. They have lovely flat ends. And high collector prices for nice examples...

 

Go to http://www.fountainpen.de and click on the 1940-1949 link in the "Vintage Pens" row of links.

 

I really really want one of these: http://www.fountainpen.de/sini-139-celluloid.htm

 

[bluemax]

QM2

 

Trust me, European rates are not as good as those in the states

[QM2]

"... ein Stück 'Zeitgeschichte' " : )

 

I do like the model from the 1940's here quite a bit http://www.fountainpen.de/sini-139-celluloid.htm -- except for the clip! That ruins the clean perfection of the design, I think.

 

As for these here http://www.fountainpen.de/old40.htm -- the whole swirly/multicolored celluloid thing just doesn't do it for me. Plus the white text on the pens makes them look like disposable ball-points. I prefer clean and shiny lacquer-like surfaces -- usually in black, with chrome/platinum trim. What I really like about MBs, any MBs incuding the Meisterstuck, is the look of the white snowcap against a black background. Not the brand appeal it signifies, but literally, the look and texture of the actual design -- it almost reminds me of Maki-e.

 

My favourite contemporary MB models are the Greta Garbo black-and-ivory, and the Kafka -- both of which have flat tops as well. If the Greta Garbo came in a larger version, with say a 146-sized nib instead of the Mozart-size, and a barrel that fit normal-sized converters, then it would be my "ideal pen".

 

Alas, there is no such thing as an ideal pen : )

 

QM2

 

The 136 and 139 Meisterstuck models preceeded the 146 and 149. They have lovely flat ends. And high collector prices for nice examples...

 

Go to http://www.fountainpen.de and click on the 1940-1949 link in the "Vintage Pens" row of links.

 

I really really want one of these: http://www.fountainpen.de/sini-139-celluloid.htm

 

[berkeleyshanghai]

The current Meisterstuck design with the cigar shape came about in the early 1950s. However, the construction of the pens were very different from then to what is now. Pens were cellluloid instead of plastic. The mechansim was a two-stage metal piston with brass threads versus the plastic thread and plastic piston. The 1950s 142-149 (there was 142, 144, 146, 149) were all piston fillers with plastic seals, so very dependable even if not looked after. The modern 144 has a converter and 146/149 are piston fillers. The earlier pens were also a tad smaller to their modern counterparts with the same number.

 

The 122-129 (122, 124, 126, 128, 129) and 132-139 (132, 134, 136, 138, 139) series were the original Meisterstucks. One was a button filler and the other was the first piston fillers MB made. Mechanically, the 132-139 series were identical to the earlier 14x series. The 122-129 is much scarcer as production lasted only a couple of years. The 129 is known to have less than 10 examples in existence. Before the war, celluloid and hard rubber were used in construction, but after the war, solely celluloid.