Newbie Looking For First Real Fountain Pen That Has Varying Line Weight

[InkWellington]

Let me preface this by saying I have honestly tried really hard and researched, trying to get a good starter kit but have so far had disappointment after disappointment. For xMas I ordered this kit off Amazon. I was super excited it was my present to myself, and kept checking the delivery status. It took over a month, and the package showed as delivered but never actually was. I tried buying it again from a different seller but this one also was not delivered. Seems it is an Amazon scam that third party sellers list items, send... something to an address at the wrong zipcode, take as many orders as possible, then shut down their account, stealing people's money and leaving Amazon to refund them. After being burned twice in a row and it now being two months later and still no kit, I read other threads that suggested newbies buy a Pilot Varsity Disposable Fountain Pen. That only took about a week to arrive. And I was so excited... then immediately disappointed. It's a nice pen and all but it's not what I want :/ The line weight is all the same, consistent. Ordinary.

 

http://penpaperinkletter.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/MVI_1039.jpg

 

But the whole reason I wanted to buy a fountain pen, aside from being to use my own ink, is that they wrote different than regular ballpoint pens. That they had variation in line width, they looked stylized, like this:

 

I mean look at this!

It's beautiful! I want to do that! But I can't. My disposable pens can't even spread their tines apart. I can't learn to write like that with a tool that can't do this. BUT I WANT TO SO GOSH DARN BAD.

 

Before I make any more purchasing mistakes, I wanted to ask some more experienced writers so I can finally get a proper start.

 

I am hoping someone can help me find a good fountain pen based on knowing what I want to do with it? I want a fountain pen that will let me do lines with widths that vary, like the above gifs show. That sort of stylization is what I want to be able to do, I want to write fancy letters that ballpoint pens aren't capable of. I want to use my own ink (I have no issue refilling cartridges with a needle, I just lack experience.) I don't want something too expensive, this is my first pen. And if I try and try and suck (my hand writing is awful, I wanted to use this opportunity to try to get better.) I don't want this $70 pen sitting around gathering dust. I'm an animator, so I spend a lot of time drawing with pens and stylus, so if it's a choice between pretty and a comfortable grip, I'll go with comfort over appearance.

 

I'm hoping that I can get a good starter pen, and if things go well I can get something nicer later on.

Edit: I am in the USA. I was planning to buy off Amazon just not from a third party seller again.

Edited March 4, 2017 by InkWellington

[NinthSphere]

The first gif is a (modified?) Pilot Falcon. The second is a dip pen nib, unless I'm mistaken.

 

If you want a flexible nib without paying a bunch

 

A. Buy a Desiderata. Uses a Zebra G dip nib in a fountain pen body.

B. Buy something like a Jinhao & modify it to use a Zebra G nib.

C. Buy a dip pen holder & a flexible nib like a Zebra G.

 

Alternatively, you could explore the range of stubs & italics that offer line variation without flexing. Too many options here without further narrowing down what you might want in a pen.

 

Expect BoBo with a novel on the subject before long.

Edited March 4, 2017 by NinthSphere

[bigkahuna]

Just to piggyback on NinthSphere's comments... You can get very interesting line width variation without using a flex nib by trying out some italic and stub nibs. One starter option available on Amazon for about $9 is the Pilot Plumix. I've had great fun with mine, and went on to buy other cursive italic pens as well.

[Tom_Moritz]

Good posts all, I just want to piggy back off of Bigkahuna. I'm a new member but not new to the game. Dip pens are great, but few true fountain pens can flex, none like that without serious modification mind you. Vintage Waterman's and Mabie Todds generally are the favorite flex nib, but they're generally no that flexible.

 

As Bigkahuna said, italics and stubs are quite fun and add a lovely bit of flourish to you're writing. The best part is that it's consistent enough that you can vary line based on your writing angle, or steady it for a manuscript style experience. New and vintage nibs and pens of these types can be had for less than a jar of cheap ink sometimes. I recommend a Sheaffer school pen with either, or a Twsbi Eco. The Eco is a cheap piston demonstrator built like a tank, but looks like a Lexus.

[Arkanabar]

Well, you're posting GIFs of flex. I suggest you start with dip pens, not fountain pens. The Zebra G is often suggested, but there are other possibilities out there as well.

See, flex fountain pens are hard to come by and expensive. Flex DIP pens are cheap. And flex pens are always delicate, and you're likely to damage several in your attempt to learn flex-style calligraphy.

[Bluey]

I suggest you start with dip pens, not fountain pens.

 

This

[NinthSphere]

I finally got that Amazon link in the op to load, a Staedtler calligraphy set. For the record, that would have given you a variety of italics.

Edited March 4, 2017 by NinthSphere

[Pendimonium]

Dip nibs plus a wooden holder are dirt cheap, so you'd loose much, but they are not tipped and far away from the smoothness of a fountain pen. Also the writing experience is somehow disturbed by constantly having to dip it, so I'm not sure it would be ideal for practicing your everyday writing.

 

Stubs don't offer as much line variation as the nib in your gif, but are comfortable to use. Cursive italics have a bit sharper edges, requiring you to hold them in position and not rotate the nib, but give a bit more line variation.

[Lexus77]

First of all, I wanted to say how sorry I feel for the bad experiences you have had. I can feel how frustrating that must be, to be looking forward to something and then have to deal with the fact that it won't come because you were scammed.

 

Second, there is some difference between what you have ordered, and what you wanted to do with it. Let me explain:
The first two sets you ordered, had stub nibs. Those don't spread their tines to give a line variation, bit work in a different way: The nibs are shaped like a chisel, chich makes them give a broad line in one direction, and a narrow line in the other. This is used for a different style of calligraphy.

The varsity is just an 'ordinary' fountain pen: A rigid nib with a round point, which is not able to spread it's tines. This is the most common type of fountain pen out there. Most fountain pens do not give this sort of flexibility.

 

What you show here, is what people often use an old-fashioned dip nib for. However, since these have their drawbacks (obviously, needing to be dipped after almost every letter), there are also some fountain pens that can do this. The nibs they use for this are called flex nibs, and they have become quite rare. Especially the 'true flex' nibs, which are most found in vintage pens or some more expensive new models. If you still want a flex, and don't want to pay that much, it can still be done. Though many purists here will claim that most flex nibs are not as flexible as those 'true flex' nibs (and having no experience, I have to take their word for it), there are some modern fountain pens in the lower price range that do offer some flex.

Though I can't speak from experience, I have heard some very good things about the noodler's pens, which come in three models with flex: The Ahab, the Konrad, and the Nib creeper. The cheapest comes at about 20 dollars, the more expensive of these models sell at 40 dollars or so. There are also some cheap indian fountain pens with flex nibs, but I haven't heard many good things about those. And I'm sure there are some other members here, that can add some other suggestions to this list.

If my explanation still isn't clear, you can search on youtube: Ink nouveau (by goulet pen company) has some very nice instructional videos about flex nibs and stub nibs, aswell as some demonstrations of Noodler's pens.

I truly hope your next purchase will be more satisfying!

Edited March 4, 2017 by Lexus77

[the_gasman]

Buying the dip pens is fast and easy; developing the skills to use them is slow and difficult.

 

Patience, young Skywalker.

 

Cheers,

David.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Zebra G or what ever is not a real flexible dip pen nib....Soennecken is middling....some Brause are stiff some middling. Hunt 99-100-101 or the fabled Gillette 303/404 make 'Wet Noodles' look uncooked. They flex when there is an earthquake in California.

 

It is something you have to learn to Draw your letters, each and every one.

I have a stiff italic calligraphy book that helped me when I tired Drawing letters with dip pen nibs. You have to know where to push, how to pull to Draw the letters.

 

Coming from Ball Point....97 1/2% of us are Ham Fisted....so will bend to $$$$$ repair any Superflex nib....................in fact most will bend the hell out of a simi-flex nib.

I do suggest working your way up the flex ladder, a Nail EF....perhaps B (I'd think of getting that as a stub)....then semi-vintage/vintage F&M in that old fashioned 'true' regular flex. That is a nice springy ride...call it +. (in Semi-flex could be called ++)

I call it 'true' regular flex in once most companies issued that as regular flex. Because of the Invasion of the Ball Point Barbarians bending the hell out of those nibs, the companies have gone over to regular issue of nail and semi-nail nibs to save repair costs. Nails =0 X tine spread. When mashed semi-nail can give 2X tine spread.

 

True Regular flex when mashed....which you really don't want to do much...just once to see if it is true regular flex....will mash to 3X. You need two of these in F&M for shading inks, in they are a tad drier than semi-flex so often depending on the ink and paper shade better. Shading is two toned ink. It dries at different rate on good paper 90g and better, so is lighter and darker in the same letter.

 

Semi-flex will mash to 3 X with half that pressure.

Maxi-semi-flex half of that or 1/4th the pressure needed to mash a regular flex to 3X.

These three are in a 3X tine spread set. Out side Osmia it is pure luck if you get a semi-flex or a maxi-semi-flex.

We have a very good sales section, it could be some will have enough German pens of the '50-60's to know the difference between semi-flex and maxi-semi-flex.

 

After you have had a 'true' regular flex for a while you are ready to go into semi-flex. I had a Pelikan 140 OB....and semi-flex when coming from regular flex is tough enough to survive ham fisted writers. I was one. It took me three months to go from Ham Fisted to Slightly Ham Fisted and the next lighter flex....maxi-semi-flex.

 

(In both the above there are Oblique nibs, ground 15 or 30degrees.(pure luck always) Buy only '50-60's German Obliques of companies that make pens with a tad of flex. I never saw Swan or US pens with semi-flex Obliques. Modern Obliques are a waste of money....Period. When matched verses real line variation of vintage German semi-flex oblique. Some sharp eyed individual will insist they can see line variation in modern nail (had 2...none ), semi-nail or regular flex nibs (have a W. Germany 200 when mashed...a tad; and one don't want to mash a nib to start with. )

Modern obliques are only good if you are left eye dominate and naturally cant your nib...or are left handed. Cant=twist to the side.

 

Osmia/Osmia-Faber Castell is the only company where you can pick semi-flex....a Diamond on the nib with a number is semi-flex. The nib that says Supra is maxi-semi-flex. The problem is some of them will need new corks. Which if properly done is the slickest piston of all and will last you the next 70 years. BCHR.....black chase hard rubber often costs not much more than plain on German Ebay. I had thought that too expensive, then with in a year I had 5-6 of them.

 

Superflex....comes also in @ three flex sets for beginners with few pens...the more you have the more variation and less clear are the borders.

Superflex 4, 5-6 or the rare 7X tine spread.

Easy Full Flex, half the pressure of a maxi-semi-flex or 1/8th the pressure needed with regular flex.

Wet Noodle, half of that or 1/16th the regular flex pressure.

A term invented by John Soboda/Oxnard a nib grinding member.....Weak Kneed Wet Noodle....even less than a wet noodle. I have none and am not looking for any.....Super flex requires work/practice.

 

 

To make the boring round nail and semi-nail nibs fun....they are ground flat on the bottom.

Stubb is easiest to write with, the corners are more rounded.

Cursive Italic requires the grind to be more exact to where you hold that pen...some other pen may be held higher or lower. It's corners are sharper, giving more line variation than a Stub.

Italic can be bought with out wasting money getting it ground, they have sharp corners so must be placed just right.

My Calligraphy book, shows the nib canted 45 degrees and held before the big knuckle to Draw the letters sharper. It is a push-pull line. (there are many fine fancy scripts in stiff italic styles.)

 

Normally with fountain pens, be it round or stub or CI the pen is held behind the big index knuckle.

One lets the pen decide if it wants to rest at 45 degrees right after the big knuckle, 40 degrees at the start of the web of the thumb....or if the pen is long or heavy enough at 35 degrees in the pit of the web of the thumb.

By 'forcing' the pen to rest where you will and not where it will, you have to use force that cramps your hand.

One should hold a fountain pen like a featherless baby bird.

Don't make baby bird paste.

 

Dip pens are affordable and if you spring or bust the nib....you are only out some $2-3 dollars with you will be out anyway. Those nibs have not tipping so wear out fast. They were sold way back in 1900 in boxes of 1/4 gross (36) just for that reason.

 

Good to better paper is necessary....90g (& + also some day) outside of Rhoda 80g is good. As long as you don't shove it in your printer will last you years. Do not ever use Ink Jet Paper....Laser only....if you want the ink to dance.

 

Rocket science is simple shove explosive in a pipe, cap the far end.

 

Believe it or not I do want you eventually getting into Superflex....but going Dip Pen is the cheapest way and will let you know if you....your self will put in the work and practice demanded to write in Spenserian or Copperplate.

Why spend $100-150 or more on a Superflex pen, when you find doing the work to justify it is too much trouble.

 

I have a few superflex pens....but don't do the practice to really have the nib work for me as it would if I practiced. I get some line variation in my semi-flex and semi-flex obliques that is a different art. There I have to do nothing....not even think.

Superflex requires a very, very light Hand.

It might well be that Dip pen use can make your Hand lighter fast.

You need a bit of micro-mesh a buff stick will do, in some clever folks sharpen their dip nibs after they start to dull.....remember there is no tipping, nor are they rolled like cheap Chinese or vintage Esterbrook nibs.

Dip pens like their own ink.....which is a real NO-NO!!! in fountain pens.

 

So dip pen, nibs, inks and a good smooth paper could get you started for $25 and we have a penman section where you can get more and better information.

Those guys who can really write are less interested in how fat they can write a letter .... wanting quick snap back to a thin line more.

 

The golden rule of fountain pens is never hurry.......Never Ever "Buy Now!", the pen will be there tomorrow, next week or next month. Stay with in budget.

 

Remember LA was not built in a day.

Edited March 4, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson

[Buzz_130]

Tons of great advice here. Right tool for the job, but the most important thing you are going to want to do is practice. Letter formation and pressure will be critical. Like any sport or art, you start with the basics. May even want to start with a pencil first, lots of paper, and ample time.

 

Good luck!

 

Buzz

[ac12]

My suggestion is the route that I took.

 

#1 - Get a stub or cursive italic pen. This gives you line variation without the effort of learning to use a flex nib pen. No a flex pen is NOT as easy to use as it looks.

 

#2 - For flex, get a dip pen. If you are right handed get an oblique dip pen holder. A dip pen nib will cost you less than $2 and an oblique holder about $15. That is MUCH MUCH less than the cheapest decent flex nib fountain pen that you can find. And when you damage the nib, which you will likely do as you are learning, a replacement nib will cost you less than $2.

 

#3 - If you decide you want a flex fountain pen, first get a straight dip pen holder and learn how to write with it, properly. It is not as easy as it may seem. This is a cheap start. The important thing is to learn the grip to use a straight holder.

 

#4 - The Desiderata pen will give you dip pen flex nib (Zebra G nib) in a fountain pen body. But you have to replace the nib every few months.

 

#5 - Now you can get a flex fountain pen. Remember what you learned with a dip pen, cuz if you spring the vintage nib of a fountain pen, it will cost you $100+ to replace it.

Edited March 4, 2017 by ac12

[Winegums]

Noodler's sells nothing but flex pens and they have some really inexpensive entry level models that you could pick up from Goulet. You need a flex pen to achieve what you were seeing in those Gifs.

[Arkamas]

Agreed agreed agreed as regarding any thoughts I would've had. Plenty of options out there. Noodler's seems to be a good place to start with flex at a low price and GouletPens has plenty of them.

 

Just some future reference when it comes to Amazon, I try to check who the seller is and what the ratings are. It should say "ships from and sold by such and such" under the price and it will link to the seller's ratings page. The key to Amazon is paying attention to the ratings (products or sellers) because they will help to keep you from getting screwed over. The more ratings there are, the better, and they should be high, otherwise I get itchy. Also try reading a few of the top and low ratings if need be. They could be stupid complaints or they could be legit issues. Ultimately you want to try purchasing something that is shipped from and sold by Amazon, or at least "fulfilled by Amazon" themselves, which means: "Fulfillment by Amazon (FBA) is a service we offer sellers that lets them store their products in Amazon's fulfillment centers, and we directly pack, ship, and provide customer service for these products. Something we hope you'll especially enjoy: FBA items qualify for FREE Shipping and PRIME."

You probably already know a lot of this but just my thoughts.

 

Happy hunting!

Edited March 4, 2017 by Arkamas

[eharriett]

My first inclination for simplicity's sake would be to seek out a Noodler's Ahab. It is "flex-ish" and inexpensive (although I think those Falcons are a bit cheaper). I've got one and I'm probably going to get another. I use them with some really, really bright inks when I want said line variation to stand out.

[Bo Bo Olson]

If you go to Ahab, after a week of use in the hard 'semi-flex' that it has....and it is heavy and hard to spread the tines well, you will have to take a Dremil or a round Swiss file and file two half moons in it.

That will get the flex down to Superflex, first stage of Easy Full Flex, that makes it fun. That is 'before wet noodle'.

Until I had the 'Ahab mod' done to mine, it sat in the pen box. Then for a year it stayed out in a pen cup.

 

A real flexible dip pen can be much lighter.....frown and it flexes before you put it to paper.

[danbuter]

Your local Barnes & Noble will have multiple calligraphy sets available. Get one of them.

[sidthecat]

Inkwellington,

First of all, great handle. You're my kind of guy.

I'm in animation as well, and I've become the office enabler: one of my co-workers just bought a modified Skyline from Greg Minuskin. He deals in restored and modified vintage pens with an emphasis on flex qualities. I'd suggest you look at his site for a while. His pens sell fast, but he always seems to have more. If you have a job and don't have a bunch of kids in private school it's a fast way to get in.

Peyton Street Pens also have pretty reasonably-priced and (more importantly) well-described pens. Waterman, Wahl-Eversharp, Mabie Todd, Moore and Conklin all made pens with wonderfully flexible nibs, but they fell out of fashion after the 1930s, so they describe a certain 50-year span of time when people used new tools to write in an old way.

If you have smallish hands you might like to look into ringtops, which can be less costly than the larger pens.

Anyway, good hunting. It's totally worth it.

[ac12]

I would NOT recommend a Noodler's pen to a newbie. Their pens are known and advertised as for being a "tinkerer's pen." You may get a good one 'out of the box' or you could get a dud, or 2 duds as I did.

 

I still recommend the use of a stub or CI nib first. As it give you the line variation you want, without the learning curve of properly learning to use a flex nib pen.