Fountain Pen Use For Legal Documents

[TonyTeaBags]

Just recently, a Notary Public came to our home for the signing of some legal documents. I was absolutely not allowed to use a fountain pen. It had to be a blue ballpoint. This young lady provided the pens, and they were cheap drug-store ballpoints. I tried to show her that the ink I was using, Sheaffer Skrip Blue, was a wonderful blue color. Absolutely not allowed.

 

In the past, I have been invited into mortgage and lawyer's offices for the purpose of signing documents. Fountain pens were absolutely not allowed.

 

Colors of these supplied ballpoints varied from black to blue, some were gel pens, but I would always bring two fountain pens filled with black and blue inks. Never allowed to use them.

 

I am an ardent fountain pen user. I have several, and have expended a considerable amount of money on my small collection. They are wonderful, but I have yet to convince anyone to let me use my own pen for those important signings.

 

I suppose one could make the argument that the ballpoints supplied had archival inks in them. Maybe the gel pen, but those ballpoints were el-cheapo stick pens.

 

Have any of you experienced the same behavior?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BillH]

I have been to many real estate signings over the years and the pens were always provided by the title companies. I never had clients question it. My guess is the notaries, title insurance companies, and escrow officers (banks too?) all have their own standards and specs for color and permanence... since it is their license on the line I never questioned it either.

 

I did notice that some of the el-cheapos wrote very well... for the equiv of a page... the ink capacity was ridiculously small no matter if a ball or a gel pen. The joke in our office was to make sure to grab three of them, since it usually took more than one to make a grocery list. Signing pens. Not by our definition though, eh?

[Michigan]

I did my last mortgage with a fountain pen. I kicked myself because I did not use iron gall ink.

 

Not sure about these professionals and their signing requirements, but I am guessing fountain pens were in wide use for such things in the past. It is also the wont of functionaries to not know very much at all about whys and wherefores of many things like this. This rarely prevents them from sharing their notions and pretending they were graven on a tablet somewhere.

 

I have inked a lot of contracts with a sterling Montblanc 146. When I was a young man, I did a $900,000 deal with it and was quite proud of myself. Now that I know that is only the average price of a condo in Manhattan, I am less so!

 

Lastly, I know an attorney who cheated his niece out of the family farm. His brother signed the will and it was stored at the law office. When he died, voila, it went to his dear brother, not to the daughter who lived there. I have wondered what the means of corrupting the will was. Registrar/iron gall ink is used because it cannot be washed off with water. I have been a greater believer in it since hearing that story.

[inkstainedruth]

The last time my husband and I bought a car, I signed a lot of the paperwork with a Noodler's Konrad, which was sporting Nooder's Kung Te Cheng ink. The only problem was when I had to sign some of the multi-page carbonless forms; next time though, I'll be ready: since then I've gotten a couple of vintage Esterbrooks with manifold nibs!

I have had gotten grief at the post office (filling out a Priority Mail shipping label); and at a doctor's office a couple of years ago I was *required* to use black ink (and didn't happened to have a pen filled with black ink with me). I'm not sure the woman at the window would have been amused if I had pointed out that red ink photocopies as black (and it wasn't as if I was using anything that resembled a non-repro blue pencil...).

I was at the auto body shop yesterday getting one of the cars back after a fender bender. I signed the check paying the guy with with the Dark Lilac Safari, and Noodler's Ellis Island Blue Black (and got asked about my "old" pen ; I told him that it was a model that came out in the 1980s and that particular color was released last year....

Today it was a Parker Vector filled with Akkerman #10 Ijzer Galnoten in it, in writing a check to put a deposit down on repairs to the lawn tractor.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[ac12]

They were probably told that anything other than a 'ball pen' is not permanent. So arguing about IG and BP ink with them will get you nowhere. Generally the people that have the document call the shots for what it has to be signed with.

 

However, when I had to sign a doc a few years ago, I asked my attorney what color ink I could use, as I wanted to use a fountain pen. She said, "anything as long as it will photocopy." So I use Diamine Sherwood Green, just to be different. And neither she nor the notary had a problem with that.

 

Later I discovered the wisdom behind her statement. When I photocopied something written with Sheaffer Skrip Turquoise, the black and white photocopier could not see the Turquoise ink. It was as if it was written in invisible ink. The only way it would copy was with a color copier in color mode.

[Runnin_Ute]

When I refinanced my house in 2015 I took two fountain pens to closing. A Pelikan M205 and a TWSBI 580. The M205 had Pelikan 4001 blue black the 580 with KWZI iron gall turquoise. I spoke with the closing agent and she had no problem with me using the 580. Iron gall turquoise ink. Copied beautifully.

[Jamesbeat]

Thing is, they have no control about what ink you have in the pen.

Ballpoints may be boring, but at least you know that they have a high degree of permanence.

Perhaps this was a problem a few decades ago when fountain pens were in common use, and once ballpoints came out, they became the standard.

 

With the possibility (whether intentional or unintentional) of disappearing ink, I can hardly say I blame them.

 

Imagine the logistical nightmare of ensuring all of your staff are familiar with fountain pens and experts in recognizing inks.

How would you go about making sure the correct ink was used?

I bet that even in the golden age of fountain pens, they would insist on you using their pen, just so they knew that it contained the correct ink.

 

I would happily use a ballpoint under such circumstances - whatever I would be signing is bound to be more important than indulging in my hobby.

 

I certainly understand the desire to sign an important document with a cherished pen, but at the end of the day it's just a pen.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Jamesbeat

[Water Ouzel]

When we sold our house a couple years ago, I signed all the documents with a Pilot Metropolitan filled with Noodler's Black, except late in the process when we were half the continent away and used digital signing.

 

Everyone seemed happy with the fountain pen.

[Tasmith]

I've used a Pelikan M200 inked with Montblanc Permanent Blue for the past two years at me CPA's office. No problem, but I always have a Parker Jotter with a Fisher blue refill with me just in case. Maybe a second Jotter with a Fisher black refill for extra back up now.

[Sasha Royale]

I have not. However, were it to happen, I would not fuss. It is not a major inconvenience.

[Sandy1]

Hi,

 

As is usual I agree with Member Sasha Royale.

 

For the most part I like R&K Salix from one of Sam's (of Pendemonium fame) Italic nibs.

 

As I do not suffer fools lightly, I'll sign the papers, and if some dead-in-the-water functionary takes exception to my pen+ink combo, they might be the subject of a flight test.

 

(I am a tad grumpy/gnarly today. Mostly I fancy a pillow fight in the boudoir; other times I'd rather a few bouts of kendo with bozos in the dojo. Hey - a new U-Tube sport: Bozo Kendo)

 

Bye,

Ms Grumpy

Edited March 3, 2017 by Sandy1

[TennesseeTrash]

I'm a notary public in 3 states, used to own a title company, and am half way through law school. There is no reason why you cannot use a fountain pen to sign, at least in Tennessee, Kentucky, and Virginia. My best guess is they wanted to make sure everyone signed in blue and to make that easier for employees to follow, had a rule that everyone use their provided pens.

 

Blue isn't even legally required for most things. I have had many lease agreements come back in green glitter gel pen. Unprofessional as hell, but legally sufficient. In several cases emails and text messages have been used in lieu of a signature to meet the signing requirements.

 

No idea why lawyers would ban fountain pens other than perhaps concerns about leaking on documents. Law school, at least mine, has a fountain pen culture. I've worked with one attorney who collects fountain pens and used a MB149 for everything and I've worked with others who used pilot g2 rollerballs or nicer ball point pens. I didn't use a fountain pen for years and years because I thought they leaked, so I never tried one.

[PaganArcher]

I've had a couple instances like that. They argued until I told them it was my pen/ink or I'd sign it in my blood.

[ksm]

Last year on my friend's bachelors party I've made a joke about providing him easily fading and non permanent ink to sign his marriage contract.

 

I think that some notaries could be afraid of you commissioning a chemist to create an ink that will stay dark for a few days,

but after some kind of buffer wears out would quickly disintegrate. (This is wild speculation, one would have to ask Konrad of KWZI or Mr Tardif if such a thing is within the realm of possibility).

[Cincinnatus]

My wife is an Attorney and she uses a fountain pen in her day to day activities including signing documents but uses black ink.

[Arkamas]

Rather irritating how these ignorant, bureaucratic standards get in the way when, If anything, I would trust one of my FPs with Noodlers Black before anything else. I remember instructions to use the cheap ball point pens at the voting booth. Bah!

[Jamesbeat]

Last year on my friend's bachelors party I've made a joke about providing him easily fading and non permanent ink to sign his marriage contract.

 

I think that some notaries could be afraid of you commissioning a chemist to create an ink that will stay dark for a few days,

but after some kind of buffer wears out would quickly disintegrate. (This is wild speculation, one would have to ask Konrad of KWZI or Mr Tardif if such a thing is within the realm of possibility).

I wasn't joking when I mentioned disappearing ink - it does exist and has been used for fraudulent purposes as well as gags.

I can't post a link from my phone for some reason, but Wikipedia has an article about invisible inks in which disappearing ink is mentioned.

 

Also there is the possibility of ink disappearing by accident. Many of the washable blues are pretty unstable and can fade significantly over time.

[Mercian]

Here in the U.K. the situation is different (for official documents at least).

When one is getting married, or Registering a birth or a death, one is required to use a fountain pen when signing the Register.

 

The Registrar provides the pen (the last one I was handed was a Parker Jotter), and it is loaded with blue-black iron-gall Registrar's Ink.

A couple of years ago someone uploaded links to HMG guidelines issued to our Registrars. These suggested/recommend the use of ESS Registrar's Ink.

 

(If you have not yet read it, I heartily endorse the review of this ink by Sandy1, and the extensive subsequent thread.)

 

I use R&K Salix for signing contracts. It is iron-gall blue-black like ESSRI, but stays bluer for longer.

If a functionary were to try to tell me that instead I 'had to' sign a contract with a cheap ballpoint, I would tell that functionary to see how far they get with their ballpoint line when dealing with the Registrars employed by Her Majesty's Government, and insist on using my Salix.

[Gudi]

When I registered my daughter's birth here in Brazil no one objected the use of fountain pen. As I had mine with me, I promptly signed using it. But I wouldn't mind using a ballpoint if requested.

 

When I worked in a bank, there were clear instructions to have all documents and contracts signed with a ballpoint, no matter the color. It was almost 15 years ago, so I don't know if this changed, and I didn't tried to use a fountain pen the times I went to the bank after that (maybe because I know the restriction).

[Gudi]

(If you have not yet read it, I heartily endorse the review of this ink by Sandy1, and the extensive subsequent thread.)

 

Thanks for the tip. Beautiful ink and awesome review.