What differences are there between Insignia & Cisele Crosshatch Parker 75 apart from Grid Lines!

[NewCollector]

Hi .. I have posted a threat couple of days ago featuring a gold plated set from my parker collection.. I was wondering if it is Insignia Set of Cisele Crosshatch Parker 75.. The threat has been viewed by over hundred members and I received plenty of replies ..( Many Thanks) but they were all confusing and contradicting too.. Some members advised it is 75 Cisele, others confirmed it is Insignia, both supported their opinion by leads from a very respected websites …third parties just cut the story short and asked me to sell it .. I am just wondering if there are – apart from gridlines- some major differences could be identified between the two products !! It would be great enlightens to my knowledge.. see photo below & by the way this set is made in US :bonk: … Many thanks in advance .. Amr

Edited May 16, 2007 by NewCollector

[Kalessin]

"Cisele" is the common name used for the grid pattern, solid sterling silver 75s.

 

"Insignia" refers to the gold-plated grid-pattern pens; this is the name that Parker gave them and used in marketing materials. The engraved lines also seem to be less deep than the sterling silver model.

 

Other than the barrel material and finish, there shouldn't be any difference between the two models (other than the usual things like the tassies which changed over time, various sections and nibs available, etc.)

 

On the previous thread, a number of the photos looked like the pens could be silver; this might have been the cause of the confusing statements.

 

There's a fairly exhastive reference website on the Parker 75 pens, http://www.parker75.com. Click on "Reference" on the front page, and start digging..

Edited May 16, 2007 by Kalessin

[parkercrazy]

Hi NewCollector,

 

The Parker 75 set you have is called the Insignia 2 pattern which has deeper cut lines than the Insignia. These are often confused with the Cisele pattern. The Cisele pattern was only offered in the Sterling Silver and Vermeil which is Sterling Silver and Gold fill. The Insignia 2 was offered in the Gold Plate version and it appears that is what you have. Hope this helps you.

 

Take Care, Francis

[NewCollector]

Hi Francis ..This is really very helpful short cut reply .. Many thanks & Most grateful for the professional explanations ..Cheers.. Amr

 

 

 

Hi NewCollector,

 

The Parker 75 set you have is called the Insignia 2 pattern which has deeper cut lines than the Insignia. These are often confused with the Cisele pattern. The Cisele pattern was only offered in the Sterling Silver and Vermeil which is Sterling Silver and Gold fill. The Insignia 2 was offered in the Gold Plate version and it appears that is what you have. Hope this helps you.

 

Take Care, Francis

 

[Kalessin]

Duh, I forgot the Vermeil Cisele pens. :bonk:

 

[Sagar_C]

Hi NewCollector,

 

The Parker 75 set you have is called the Insignia 2 pattern which has deeper cut lines than the Insignia. These are often confused with the Cisele pattern. The Cisele pattern was only offered in the Sterling Silver and Vermeil which is Sterling Silver and Gold fill. The Insignia 2 was offered in the Gold Plate version and it appears that is what you have. Hope this helps you.

 

Take Care, Francis

 

Sorry to dig this topic out again. Is it true that vermeil model always has "sterling silver" written on the cap?

[alastair smith]

Hello,

 

Many of the Insignia fountain-pens, ball-pens and pencils also have a blank panel, or cartouche, where the owner's name can br engraved: I have both types, early versions, made in USA may have flat tassies, those made in France have dished tassies. By the way, your's is a lovely mint set.

 

Vermeil pens may have just the 'sterling silver' imprint but they also appear with 'sterling silver + 14kt gold', depending on age.

 

Best wishes, Alastair

[ceejaybee]

Sorry to dig this topic out again. Is it true that vermeil model always has "sterling silver" written on the cap?

 

The Cisele 75s in the 'vermeil' finish all have a reference to sterling silver on the capband. The earliest pens read 'STERLING & 14K G.F.' the G.F. is referring to the sterling cap and barrel being Gold Filled. The later pens were marked 'STERLING VERMEIL CAP AND BARREL' on the capband, the difference being the later pens were 22K goldplated instead of 14K gold filled, the gold fill was a thicker layer of gold, but the finish can appear lighter in colour because of the lower gold content.

[ceejaybee]

made in USA may have flat tassies, those made in France have dished tassies.

 

All Insignias were made in USA (barring prototypes etc)

[flodoc]

Retracted statement.

Edited December 9, 2010 by flodoc

[alastair smith]

made in USA may have flat tassies, those made in France have dished tassies.

 

All Insignias were made in USA (barring prototypes etc)

 

It's not in my nature to be controversial and I'm willing to learn from more experienced collectors but I have an Insignia, identical to the one in the above picture, with the longer fleche, wider cap-band, dished tassies and the imprint "MADE IN FRANCE": the date letters are "YC". My USA made Insignia has the imprint 14K GF. I hope that I am not setting a 'cat among pigeons'

 

Alastair

[ceejaybee]

made in USA may have flat tassies, those made in France have dished tassies.

 

All Insignias were made in USA (barring prototypes etc)

 

It's not in my nature to be controversial and I'm willing to learn from more experienced collectors but I have an Insignia, identical to the one in the above picture, with the longer fleche, wider cap-band, dished tassies and the imprint "MADE IN FRANCE": the date letters are "YC". My USA made Insignia has the imprint 14K GF. I hope that I am not setting a 'cat among pigeons'

 

Alastair

 

Without seeing it I can't be sure but it sounds like you have a 'Goldplated Cisele' this is how Lih-Tah Wong describes it on his website here How does it compare side by side to your USA pen? besides the tassies and clip is there much of a difference in the pattern? :hmm1:

[alastair smith]

made in USA may have flat tassies, those made in France have dished tassies.

 

All Insignias were made in USA (barring prototypes etc)

 

It's not in my nature to be controversial and I'm willing to learn from more experienced collectors but I have an Insignia, identical to the one in the above picture, with the longer fleche, wider cap-band, dished tassies and the imprint "MADE IN FRANCE": the date letters are "YC". My USA made Insignia has the imprint 14K GF. I hope that I am not setting a 'cat among pigeons'

 

Alastair

 

Without seeing it I can't be sure but it sounds like you have a 'Goldplated Cisele' this is how Lih-Tah Wong describes it on his website here How does it compare side by side to your USA pen? besides the tassies and clip is there much of a difference in the pattern? :hmm1:

 

Dear ceejaybee,

 

I beleieve you are right, I'd forgotten about 'The Oracle': in which case I believe we may be back to the beginning of this ambiuous post. My French one looks just like the pictures, with deep-cut lines.

So, are we looking at Gold-plated Ciseles here, after all ?:hmm1:

[ceejaybee]

made in USA may have flat tassies, those made in France have dished tassies.

 

All Insignias were made in USA (barring prototypes etc)

 

It's not in my nature to be controversial and I'm willing to learn from more experienced collectors but I have an Insignia, identical to the one in the above picture, with the longer fleche, wider cap-band, dished tassies and the imprint "MADE IN FRANCE": the date letters are "YC". My USA made Insignia has the imprint 14K GF. I hope that I am not setting a 'cat among pigeons'

 

Alastair

 

Without seeing it I can't be sure but it sounds like you have a 'Goldplated Cisele' this is how Lih-Tah Wong describes it on his website here How does it compare side by side to your USA pen? besides the tassies and clip is there much of a difference in the pattern? :hmm1:

 

Dear ceejaybee,

 

I beleieve you are right, I'd forgotten about 'The Oracle': in which case I believe we may be back to the beginning of this ambiuous post. My French one looks just like the pictures, with deep-cut lines.

So, are we looking at Gold-plated Ciseles here, after all ?:hmm1:

 

Yep, not so much 'cat among pigeons' more 'opening a can of worms' methinks :roflmho: