Sailor H-B Marked Nib Writes Like A Zoom Nib

[ink-syringe]

okay. I might be crazy but I swear I have a Sailor H-B nib that was either mis-stamped or ground after the fact even though it came right off the shelf from Pen Chalet. It is a Professional Gear I (color series) and it, like I said is marked H-B on the side of the nib but it writes exactly like a Zoom nib and if you look at the nib under a loupe it looks just like what you would expect a zoom nib to look like it has the top part of the ball tipping faceted and angled off like /|\ but the bottom of the tipping is just regular round, bulbous and ball like. I have seen macro photos of zoom nibs and seen them with my own two eyes and this is what they look like. They give a thin line when the angle is increased and as the pen is lowered the line is broader. This is exactly what mine does. It goes from an F line approaching 90° angle and as you go down to, say, sub 45° angle it gets quite wide, wet and very smooth and glassy. This also jives with my limited zoom experience. You really do have to hold it low to get a wider line and in the usual position it is a tad scratchy because of the facets on iridium ball.

Here is the problem. Sailor zoom nibs are marked Z on the side. Is it possible that I have a zoom nib before the Z was as a nib designation (did sailor start producing zoom nibs by grinding B nibs) or is it possible that the nib is mislabeled? Again this is an earlier Professional Gear I color series so has probably been on the shelf a few years.

I feel like i am going crazy. Or is it that sailor B nibs are given a quasi-zoom treatment and they all write like this? (my first B nib purchase but I have tried and borrowed B nibs that were just regular round B nibs so really confused)

Nib functions fine. Though I personally wanted a B nib and at normal angles it puts down a line slightly thinner than my H-M 1911L so that is a bummer. I also generally don’t like or have much use for a zoom nib. This is no way a straight B nib or I'll eat my hat. Or I am living in some parallel universe.

Anyone else have an older H-B that writes exactly like a zoom nib?

 

[ink-syringe]

This is the best I could do trying to hold the loupe steady against my phone and focusing on the nib. You can clearly see the smooth round bottom of the nib and the chiseled top facets. The top of that nib is clearly not round but / | \ shaped right? Yet the nib is clearly stamped H-B on the side.

 

 

[ink-syringe]

I personally hate zoom nibs. grr. They sacrifice too much smoothness for a line variation that I find difficult to achieve.

[Pactagon]

I have a H-B on my ProGear Realo and it's just as you describe it. I'm quite sure this is just how they do their nibs. Even my H-F on my ProGear Slim puts down a thinner line at near-90° angles. However, I'm also quite sure that zoom nibs go much broader than a H-B. As for the scratchiness, mine is smooth despite the facets. It does have nice feedback though. My guess as to why they're like this is for writing Japanese which, if you're trying to make your characters look pretty, occasionally uses lines that start thick and end thin.

[Fotakas]

 

...like I said is marked H-B on the side of the nib but it writes exactly like a Zoom nib

...

Anyone else have an older H-B that writes exactly like a zoom nib?

 

 

 

I thought that it was only me, who had this feeling.

 

Thank you for pointing that out.

Edited February 20, 2017 by Fotakas

[ink-syringe]

Update: I took my loupe to my local Sailor dealer and looked at a bunch of nibs.

 

They all have these zoom grind like angled facets ground into the top of the tipping.

 

Apparently, Sailor doesn't make plain bold round B nibs. This is just how they do it.

 

Which explains the very very small and very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very LOW sweet spot.

 

If I hold the pen overhand like a child or a monkey I get the smoothest genuine B line. If I hold the pen like a normal adult I get pretty much an F or even M at best. Pretty funny. Not sure what the point of this B nib is if there is no way to actually get a B line out if short of holding it over hand.

 

If you look at it from the side the angle on the tipping is comical. It looks like someone held it overhand and ground it. The ball is sliced with a really severe foot. I guess no one in Japan uses B nibs so they don't care but it is a really funny B nib. They went through a ot of trouble to me a B nid that doesn't actually write like one.

 

I wish I could do macro photography to show it.

Edited February 21, 2017 by ink-syringe

[ink-syringe]

The nib writes 'well' and is perfectly tuned and aligned. I just never owned a Sailor nib large enough to see that they cut facets into the top of the nib. I can't hold the pen at a low enough angle to get B line out of it (pro gears are short too!) but when I do it is silky smooth. A shame they do this.

 

I write in Chinese characters too. I have yet to see this brush like thick to thin that is designed to produce. Just writes like a FM nib with a small sweetspot.

 

Still love the pen. If you Waverly the heck out of this nib you might actually get to write on the meaty part of the tipping. Or maybe stub it. Sailor should offer H-R-B nibs. heh.

[Bluey]

It looks a bit small compared to my zoom.

Sailor nibs have a foot and I think that probably accounts for the different line variation at different angles. You can also achieve something similar on footy nibs such as the Lamy 2000 (try it and see).

 

Here are some shots I've taken of my zoom nib so you can compare

Edited February 21, 2017 by Bluey

[koofle]

Quite a few samples of Sailors and even a few Platinum 3776s from 10+ years ago that I've tried have shown similar zoom/Naginata-light finishes on their broad and medium nibs. A bunch of pen friends who like writing Chinese love this feature, and I would guess it makes for writing larger-sized calligraphic scripts much easier and more fun. Unlike italic scripts where I need a hard surface, they prefer a soft surface to bring out the brush-like flourishes of the nibs more, either through a pad of paper underneath or even a sheet of leather.

[ink-syringe]

Not meaning to imply that the zoom nibs are the exact same nibs as the B. The zooms for one are fatter. But only that even the non-zoom nibs have a, zoom aspect to them if you will and are not round. Also the foot seems steeper on my nib then the zoom dictating a comically low angle to get anything like a B line.

[ink-syringe]

[Bluey]

Not meaning to imply that the zoom nibs are the exact same nibs as the B. The zooms for one are fatter. But only that even the non-zoom nibs have a, zoom aspect to them if you will and are not round. Also the foot seems steeper on my nib then the zoom dictating a comically low angle to get anything like a B line.

That's how it is on other foot nibs too such as the Lamy 2000. I write at a shallow angle and so my Lamy is almost like an extra broad, but if I go up to a 60 degree or 80 degree angle it's much finer.

[ink-syringe]

I write at a shallow angle and so my Lamy is almost like an extra broad, but if I go up to a 60 degree or 80 degree angle it's much finer.

 

I couldn't possibly angle the pen shallow enough to have the paper conform to the angle of that foot and actually get a smooth B line. That is like sub 20* who holds their pen like that? I love the pen.

 

I am sort of okay with using the nib this way but that means it isn't smooth really and it is just a F nib. I don't love it.

 

If I ever get another Sailor B nib, I maybe will buy it from Mottishaw and have him chop the top off or regrind the facets out the nib, or waverly the daylights out of it so that you actually at least get some of the round part of the ball on the page. Or stub it.

[ink-syringe]

PS. Had a few Lamy 2Ks. Can't say it was anything close to this. But I no longer own one so can't show the nib any longer. Foolishly sold all my Lamys.

[Bluey]

I don't think 20 degrees will be necessary. I hold mine at about 40 degrees. I've taken some shots of my Lamy M with Sailor MF and the Sailor has a much less shallow foot.

 

Judging by the shape, the Lamy should be more forgiving of the angle you write at whereas the Sailor requires a specific angle otherwise it will feel scratchy/feedbacky

 

Hardly expert macro photography but it gets the point across

Edited February 21, 2017 by Bluey

[ink-syringe]

Very interesting. Thanks for those shots.

[TheDutchGuy]

I had my stereo microscope set up for a job and once finished I decided to make some photo's of my Sailor M and MF nibs, both on a Pro Gear Slim.

 

The M, side view:

 

The M, bottom view:

 

This geometry explains the zoom-like quality of this nib, which has also been reported by many other owners of Sailor M-nibs:

 

Now the MF nib, side view:

 

The MF, bottom view:

 

Basically the same geometry, just smaller.

 

For comparison, I also took photos of two European nibs which I would characterize as XF. First, a ca. 1910 German pen with a wonderful 'NICHROMA' nib:

 

Second, the nib of my OMAS Tessili F (which in reality, and to my delight, writes more like a true XF):

 

Approximately 80 years separate these last two photos of European nibs. The difference in geometry with the Sailor nibs seems clear. Personally I adore both; they're different flavours of something very, very good to me.