M805 Stiff Nib :(

[billy1380]

So I think I have been spoilt because early on in my fountain pen hobby I bought an M1000 and it has a great nib. I have always loved demonstrators though and so recently I bought an M805 thinking it would have as soft a nib as the M1000.

 

It really is NOT! At most the pressure makes the nib slightly wetter, but it is safe to say that thing has no give. I am not sure I am enjoying that pen as much as I thought I would.

 

I am assuming that Pelikan are pretty consistent with their nibs so the one that I have is representative... but I have to ask... is that the case with all the M800/805 nibs or did I just get unlucky.

 

Thanks all.

[Bluey]

Consistency isn't great with Pelikan's, but in this case you haven't been unlucky. They're meant to be stiff. That's how they are. It's only the m1000 and to a lesser extent the m200 in the Souveran line that have a softer nib.

 

What did the reviews say about it that you read before you bought the pen?

Edited January 12, 2017 by Bluey

[Bo Bo Olson]

Those in '87-90 the W. Germany ones.....were a very nice springy 'true' regular flex. I had the pleasure of trying one that I trans-mailed to Spain in the German Idiot selling it refused to mail outside of Germany.

It was a tad better than my '90-7 M400. In 1998 Pelikan brought in the new M400 with the ring around the piston cap. The nib changed from a nice springy 'true' regular flex to being a stiffer semi-nail, with a fat and blobby nib tipping....made stiffer so the Ham Fisted Ball Point Barbarians couldn't bend them.

Made fat and blobby so the Barbarians could continue to hold them like a ball point....instead of frightening them away by printing half a sheet of instruction of how to hold a fountain pen.

 

I don't know for sure when the '90's 800 became a nail....but suspect it was in 1998, when the 400 became substandard.

 

In '50-65 Pelikan made semi-flex nibs like the 1000.

 

Unfortunately a 800 will not take a '50-65 nib like a modern 600 will do. I have a '54 semi-flex B on my 600....because the semi-nail fat nib was not to my liking.

 

Even a nice '87-90 W.Germany 800 is not semi-flex like your 1000.

 

You didn't say how wide your 800's nib is....all that can be done is send it off to be made Stubb or Cursive Italic so the script looks interesting if it's wide enough..

 

I rant often about the lousy modern Pelikan nibs....in I chase the semi-flex and maxi-semi-flex of the '50-65 era.

 

There are nibmeisters that might be able to make that 800 semi-flex??????....someone might be able to help you.

Grind it thin, skinny, grind at the shoulder angle.....

 

In I live in Germany I don't keep track of of who does what in the States as well as I should.

 

Sorry to welcome you to FPN so.

It would help if you list where in the world you are....what continent you are on could help with advice....There are nibmeisters in the States and others in England, Spain, Belgium.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson

[zaddick]

M800 and M805 nibs are quite rigid. You have a standard nib.

 

Many people prefer it to the M1000 nib. Unfortunately it seems you do not. That is a bummer.

[sargetalon]

Consistency isn't great with Pelikan's...

 

 

Not to be contrary but my experience is quite the opposite. Pelikan's are actually very consistent. The M1000 is a very large nib and is the softest and most expressive nib of the modern Pelikan line-up. All of the other nibs in the Souverän line-up, including the M805, are firm and wet. That is pretty consistent across the line-up. The stainless steel nibs of the M2xx line have a touch of spring to them. If you truly want something comparable to the experience with your M1000, you should look to some of Pelikan's vintage offerings.

[Lam1]

As Sargetalon pointed out, Pelikan nibs are very consistent.

 

The M800 has a firm nib, and all that I have seen are that way.

But give it a try, you may find yourself loving it.

I myself like variety and enjoy both the M800 and M1000 nibs (and all the other Pelikans too), depending on my mood and the occasion (when I need to write fast, I'd rather use a M800).

[billy1380]

Consistency isn't great with Pelikan's, but in this case you haven't been unlucky. They're meant to be stiff. That's how they are. It's only the m1000 and to a lesser extent the m200 in the Souveran line that have a softer nib.

 

What did the reviews say about it that you read before you bought the pen?

 

I watched a video on youtube that compared the nibs of the m1000 and m800 favourably (or so I remember) and pretty much assumed everything else e.g. consistency between 800 and 805 across models

[billy1380]

Those in '87-90 the W. Germany ones.....were a very nice springy 'true' regular flex. I had the pleasure of trying one that I trans-mailed to Spain in the German Idiot selling it refused to mail outside of Germany.

It was a tad better than my '90-7 M400. In 1998 Pelikan brought in the new M400 with the ring around the piston cap. The nib changed from a nice springy 'true' regular flex to being a stiffer semi-nail, with a fat and blobby nib tipping....made stiffer so the Ham Fisted Ball Point Barbarians couldn't bend them.

Made fat and blobby so the Barbarians could continue to hold them like a ball point....instead of frightening them away by printing half a sheet of instruction of how to hold a fountain pen.

 

I don't know for sure when the '90's 800 became a nail....but suspect it was in 1998, when the 400 became substandard.

 

In '50-65 Pelikan made semi-flex nibs like the 1000.

 

Unfortunately a 800 will not take a '50-65 nib like a modern 600 will do. I have a '54 semi-flex B on my 600....because the semi-nail fat nib was not to my liking.

 

Even a nice '87-90 W.Germany 800 is not semi-flex like your 1000.

 

You didn't say how wide your 800's nib is....all that can be done is send it off to be made Stubb or Cursive Italic so the script looks interesting if it's wide enough..

 

I rant often about the lousy modern Pelikan nibs....in I chase the semi-flex and maxi-semi-flex of the '50-65 era.

 

There are nibmeisters that might be able to make that 800 semi-flex??????....someone might be able to help you.

Grind it thin, skinny, grind at the shoulder angle.....

 

In I live in Germany I don't keep track of of who does what in the States as well as I should.

 

Sorry to welcome you to FPN so.

It would help if you list where in the world you are....what continent you are on could help with advice....There are nibmeisters in the States and others in England, Spain, Belgium.

 

Thanks for this great response... I love the historical bits, I always find it fascinating. I am in the UK, Nottingham to be specific... I will put that in my profile. I will have a look in the nib meister option and see what I can find (all recommendations welcome).

 

As for how the M805 writes... it is a dry fine line (the nib is an F) and when you push the nib really hard the line gets wetter until the point when the nib starts to visibly separate, then it just dries out. When you stop, it instantly starts to write again, same thin, faded and dry line.

[billy1380]

Quote:

That is a bummer.

 

Yep!

[billy1380]

sargetalon and Lam1

 

I own quite a few Pelikans (actually I dare not say how many), but here is the thing... I started with an M1000... bought a few of those... decided to try the classical Pelikans and bought a few Gunther Wagners (was told they were the earliest pelikans)... bought a few of those... then heard about the 400NN... so bought a few of those.

 

So that is how I work I like to buy repeats of the pens I like mostly in different colours or nib sizes... and they were all soft... Ah man... even the steel nib on one of the Gunther Wagners is so soft.

 

Anyway... I think what I am trying to say is that I think I might get it nibmeister-ed... but it has only been a week... I will give it a few more weeks and if I still cannot live with it... just get it worked on.

 

Thanks you both

Edited January 13, 2017 by billy1380

[ink-syringe]

Many people prefer it to the M1000 nib.

 

 

I know I do. Hate that mushy M1000 nib. Give me springy, flexy, semi-whatever, nail, even manifold (Pelikan 'D' nibs), but no thanks on the sponge nib. I love my modern M805, Love my W. German desk pen, and have loved all the 400/400n/4000nn pens i have owned. Had 2 M1000s and couldn't get rid of them fast enough. YMMV

[ink-syringe]

 

 

Not to be contrary but my experience is quite the opposite. Pelikan's are actually very consistent. The M1000 is a very large nib and is the softest and most expressive nib of the modern Pelikan line-up. All of the other nibs in the Souverän line-up, including the M805, are firm and wet. That is pretty consistent across the line-up. The stainless steel nibs of the M2xx line have a touch of spring to them. If you truly want something comparable to the experience with your M1000, you should look to some of Pelikan's vintage offerings.

 

^^ This

[Bluey]

 

 

Not to be contrary but my experience is quite the opposite. Pelikan's are actually very consistent. The M1000 is a very large nib and is the softest and most expressive nib of the modern Pelikan line-up. All of the other nibs in the Souverän line-up, including the M805, are firm and wet. That is pretty consistent across the line-up. The stainless steel nibs of the M2xx line have a touch of spring to them. If you truly want something comparable to the experience with your M1000, you should look to some of Pelikan's vintage offerings.

 

 

As Sargetalon pointed out, Pelikan nibs are very consistent.

 

I know you guys are fanatically fond of your Pelikans, but maybe this means that you're not quite seeing them in a totally realistic light.

 

I prefer to go by the hundreds of reviews I read on the net, plus my own experiences. And to back it up, someone who tests them says In my job, I tune many Pelikan nibs every week. I would say only about 40% of them have no nib issues right out of the box!

 

There is no doubt whatsoever that Pelikan has issues with QC whatever you may wish to believe. Pelikans may well have been of higher standards in the past, but modern day Pelikans have long since lost their way even if their lazy business model is doing well.

Therefore it's not unreasonable to suggest that the chances of inconsistencies in the OPs nib are relatively high.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Bluey

[billy1380]

Hate that mushy M1000 nib.

 

Wow, if you think M1000 nib is mushy... I wonder what you think about titanium nibs. No seriously... what do you think about titanium nibs?

[ink-syringe]

No seriously... what do you think about titanium nibs?

 

 

I generally don't enjoy titanium nibs either. Though I will admit to limited experience here and remain open to being swayed. I have not owned a titanium nib only tried or borrowed. I also generally don't like the way they look.

[invisuu]

 

 

I know you guys are fanatically fond of your Pelikans, but maybe this means that you're not quite seeing them in a totally realistic light.

 

I prefer to go by the hundreds of reviews I read on the net, plus my own experiences. And to back it up, someone who tests them says In my job, I tune many Pelikan nibs every week. I would say only about 40% of them have no nib issues right out of the box!

 

There is no doubt whatsoever that Pelikan has issues with QC whatever you may wish to believe. Pelikans may well have been of higher standards in the past, but modern day Pelikans have long since lost their way even if their lazy business model is doing well.

Therefore it's not unreasonable to suggest that the chances of inconsistencies in the OPs nib are relatively high.

 

There are SO MANY "truths" in the fountain pen community it's unbelievable. Somebody says it, others just blindly pick it up, it turns into a "truth" and that's it. I have no idea what to believe anymore. Either way, if it helps, my Pelikan came to me in perfect condition without any tuning from the vendor. But yeah, some will say all Pelikans are perfect, some will say only every other is. I think the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Well, I only tried a 1000 in a B&M....it being a huge pen.....just to see if the nib was 'springy' or semi-flex. Having some 20 semi-flex pens then and say 7 maxi-semi-flex....now 26/16, thought it semi-flex.

 

In many folks don't have semi-flex...could understand some one thinking it springy.....or that person could have a maxi-semi-flex which seems to run about 1 in 4 to semi-flex***....and so would rightfully think....if they unknowingly had a maxi...thinking it a semi-flex....that a 1000 only had a springy nib....like a 200.

A maxi needs only half the pressure to spread it's tines 3 X as a semi-flex.

 

I didn't find it mushy....but how mushy can one find a nib when one only writes a couple of lines with.

This is the first time I heard it called mushy.

You had two...I had none of course in I couldn't see owning a giant pen, I'd never use. Same goes for the 149. I have enough problems in my mind with Large pens....not giant oversize ones.

 

 

 

I've not had any problems with the three new Pelikans I bought. ......... I buy old cheap Pelikans.

Well the semi-vintage and vintage ones...had a corner pen store to fix them.

 

I do find it 'odd' that a Pelikan nib....especially the new ones to be dry. That can be solved with a wetter ink. The ink used for the dry pen wasn't mentioned.

One of the problems often enough with folks calling Pelikan unusually fat....is use of wet inks instead of the dry Pelikan ink the feed and nib was designed for.

 

***Osmia/O-F-C is the only pen company that had differences. The size in the Diamond of Osmia as semi-flex....Supra as maxi.

[Calabria]

Flex, semi-flex, ...

 

No, the M8xx line is none of those. If the line is dry, try another ink (the 4001 blue is dry and pale). But be patient before sending the nib to a "meister" - I've been kind of unhappy with a nib out of the box - mostly because it's too wide and wet - but usually end up *loving* it in the end. I regret having some nibs reground.

 

I can't abide flexy spongy or mushy nibs. I write a lot and need a bit of tooth and resistance. Elasticity slows down my writing, and since I don't live in the 19th C, I have no use for copperplate flourishes. The only pen I ever returned right away was a Pilot FA.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Calabria

[Bluey]

 

There are SO MANY "truths" in the fountain pen community it's unbelievable. Somebody says it, others just blindly pick it up, it turns into a "truth" and that's it. I have no idea what to believe anymore. Either way, if it helps, my Pelikan came to me in perfect condition without any tuning from the vendor. But yeah, some will say all Pelikans are perfect, some will say only every other is. I think the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

Probably. Almost everything is subjective and a best guess, at best.

But there's a lot of smoke around so I think there's almost certainly likely to be a few fires. That's the way I see it.

[sargetalon]

 

I know you guys are fanatically fond of your Pelikans, but maybe this means that you're not quite seeing them in a totally realistic light.

 

I prefer to go by the hundreds of reviews I read on the net, plus my own experiences. And to back it up, someone who tests them says In my job, I tune many Pelikan nibs every week. I would say only about 40% of them have no nib issues right out of the box!

 

There is no doubt whatsoever that Pelikan has issues with QC whatever you may wish to believe. Pelikans may well have been of higher standards in the past, but modern day Pelikans have long since lost their way even if their lazy business model is doing well.

Therefore it's not unreasonable to suggest that the chances of inconsistencies in the OPs nib are relatively high.

 

 

I do so hate to engage with comments such as these but do not wish to see others led astray. I am indeed fond of Pelikan's writing instruments and make no bones about it. I'm also critical of the brand where appropriate. My "fanaticism" for the brand isn't just blind devotion. It was earned because the company consistently puts out a well crafted and reliable product. When that is not the case, the company and its vendors provide reasonable and fair warranty support. Pelikan nibs are not all perfect. Today's offerings are shadows of their former selves in terms of spring, variety, and expressiveness. There is no such thing as infallible quality control. All manufacturers have issues. Have I had Pelikan nibs that were not good out of the box? Absolutely. I have had several lemons. The large majority, however, have worked perfectly. My sample size is not half a dozen. I own 100s of different Pelikans. The majority of nibs have been fine if somewhat pedestrian. I freely admit that my evidence is anecdotal but no more so than any other offered thus far. Certainly no conclusive evidence has been presented with which to back up hyperbolic claims of wide spread quality control failure and none will be because it doesn't exist, at least not in lay hands. Even the linked "evidence" is still just a single persons subjective opinion. Any attempt to condemn the company for poor quality control without offering credible and objective evidence is just falsehoods and inflammatory speech. The arguments presented against the company and their "lazy business model" have numerous informal fallacies that erode any validity. That is as realistic as I can be. I do not wish to engage in this topic any further and freely accept that we will just have to agree to disagree on this topic.