Pilot Custom 823 Fine Or Medium Nib?

[ChadRiggsbee]

 

Thanks for sharing your experience. One thing that's becoming clearer and clearer is that the M nib is more like a broad one on the 823.

I didn't even know what a Waverly nib was before reading your post and doing the due research, but it's not something I really feel the need for as of now. Besides, I would like to avoid converter pens, because I prefer pens with an integrated filling system and the plunger mechanism seems to me the most efficient and quick (and fun, why not?).

 

 

Sounds good! If you like integrated filling systems, the vacuum filling system on the 823 is a very good one. Best of luck with your new purchase, and enjoy!

 

- Chad

[JunkyardSam]

Regarding the 823 being "too dry" as someone pointed out above -- this is just something that varies with Pilot pens. It's not the feed - it has to do with how tight the tines in your nib touch at the tip. This is easily adjusted:

 

 

It can even be a good thing to have a pen too dry because it's easier to make them wetter than it is to make them run more dry.

 

I have a Pilot Custom 823 F. It's great. I'm thinking you would enjoy an F nib if you like an M nib. I say this because I actually prefer an EF nib and bought at 743 for the nib swap.

 

The Pilot WA nib as mentioned above is a fancy name for a medium nib that is just slightly turned up at the end similar to a vintage Sheaffer. This is an amazing medium nib - I have one on my 912. Getting a WA on an 823 would be awesome, but it's going to be an M, not an F.

 

 

Regarding Goulet's Nib Nook -- that's good to get a general idea but it's not always accurate because nibs vary a lot. I've had pens that write just like Nib Nook predicted and I've gotten pens that have fairly different width. Use it to get a rough idea, not for 100% accuracy.

 

Here's what I suggest...

 

Get an 823 F and if that's too fine for you -- tune it to run a little wetter! Good luck - the 823 is a great pen.

[FountainClogger]

Regarding the 823 being "too dry" as someone pointed out above -- this is just something that varies with Pilot pens. It's not the feed - it has to do with how tight the tines in your nib touch at the tip. This is easily adjusted:

 

 

It can even be a good thing to have a pen too dry because it's easier to make them wetter than it is to make them run more dry.

 

I have a Pilot Custom 823 F. It's great. I'm thinking you would enjoy an F nib if you like an M nib. I say this because I actually prefer an EF nib and bought at 743 for the nib swap.

 

The Pilot WA nib as mentioned above is a fancy name for a medium nib that is just slightly turned up at the end similar to a vintage Sheaffer. This is an amazing medium nib - I have one on my 912. Getting a WA on an 823 would be awesome, but it's going to be an M, not an F.

 

 

Regarding Goulet's Nib Nook -- that's good to get a general idea but it's not always accurate because nibs vary a lot. I've had pens that write just like Nib Nook predicted and I've gotten pens that have fairly different width. Use it to get a rough idea, not for 100% accuracy.

 

Here's what I suggest...

 

Get an 823 F and if that's too fine for you -- tune it to run a little wetter! Good luck - the 823 is a great pen.

 

Thanks for the information. I've watched many videos on nib adjustment, but to tell you the truth I'm not comfortable doing those kinds of maneuvers on the nib of my pens. And again I'm receiving contradictory signals: for someone the F nib is great, for someone else is dry, etc. However, one thing has become clear I think: if I decide to buy the 823, it will be an F, not an M.

[Bluey]

 

Thanks for the clarification. At this point, given your and others' experience, I'm starting to think that buying this pen is not such a good idea.

I think such pens are too expensive until one knows more about fountain pens and what their taste is. The Pilot 823 may have some cracking issues too

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/297825-what-is-the-pilot-custom-823-made-of/

 

You say that you have a TWSBI Vac, so please be aware that the Pilot 823 is exactly the same filling mechanism (even the TWSBI wrench is recommended to be used for the PIlot) as that on the TWSBI. Essentially, the Pilot 823 is a TWSBI Vac but with a Pilot nib. For the price I don't think it's worth it.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Bluey

[FountainClogger]

I think such pens are too expensive until one knows more about fountain pens and what their taste is. The Pilot 823 may have some cracking issues too

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/297825-what-is-the-pilot-custom-823-made-of/

 

You say that you have a TWSBI Vac, so please be aware that the Pilot 823 is exactly the same filling mechanism (even the TWSBI wrench is recommended to be used for the PIlot) as that on the TWSBI. Essentially, the Pilot 823 is a TWSBI Vac but with a Pilot nib. For the price I don't think it's worth it.

 

Thanks for pointing out the cracking issue, I was not aware of that regarding the 823 (I read about the VAC 700 tho).

I do understand that the VAC 700 and the 823 both use the same plunger mechanism. Though I find that the nib on the VAC 700 is absolutely dismal. So in order to have a good quality vacuum filler I was thinking about buying the 823. I guess I could try to replace the nib on the VAC 700, but I'm a bit at a loss.

Edited January 12, 2017 by FountainClogger

[Bluey]

I replaced the Jowo nib on both of my TWSBIs with a Bock nib. It's a little softer so it makes it slightly more interesting to write with. I found the original Jowo nibs to be very stiff and to lack character.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Bluey

[Cryptos]

I'll back the 823. Got one last year, absolutely superb pen. The fine is truly fine, just a touch of tooth to make you aware of the writing surface. The filling system is fun to use.

 

The cracking problem was more or less exclusively something that happened to people who dismantled their pen (an action that is NOT recommended by Pilot, and which may invalidate your warranty).

 

I note that Matt Armstrong has recently posted a review of the 823 here:

 

Pilot Custom 823 - Review

[ChadRiggsbee]

Regarding the 823 being "too dry" as someone pointed out above -- this is just something that varies with Pilot pens. It's not the feed - it has to do with how tight the tines in your nib touch at the tip. This is easily adjusted:

 

 

It can even be a good thing to have a pen too dry because it's easier to make them wetter than it is to make them run more dry.

 

I have a Pilot Custom 823 F. It's great. I'm thinking you would enjoy an F nib if you like an M nib. I say this because I actually prefer an EF nib and bought at 743 for the nib swap.

 

The Pilot WA nib as mentioned above is a fancy name for a medium nib that is just slightly turned up at the end similar to a vintage Sheaffer. This is an amazing medium nib - I have one on my 912. Getting a WA on an 823 would be awesome, but it's going to be an M, not an F.

 

 

Regarding Goulet's Nib Nook -- that's good to get a general idea but it's not always accurate because nibs vary a lot. I've had pens that write just like Nib Nook predicted and I've gotten pens that have fairly different width. Use it to get a rough idea, not for 100% accuracy.

 

Here's what I suggest...

 

Get an 823 F and if that's too fine for you -- tune it to run a little wetter! Good luck - the 823 is a great pen.

 

 

Very good advice there -- thank you! I completely agree that a pen writing too dry is usually something that can be corrected by gently and slowly tinkering with the nib (flexing out the tines, flossing with a brass shim, etc.), at least in my experience (albeit pretty limited). I've done that to a few pens that were initially too dry for my liking, and they now work very well. Most of those were fixed up just by flossing the tines, not even by flexing out the tines or gently pulling them apart. Now that I think about it, I have yet to own a single dry-writing pen that I know for an absolute fact has a defective feed, or cannot be adjusted to write wetter by simply working on the nib.

 

To be completely fair to my 823, I have not gone to much trouble to adjust the nib to make the ink flow better. Your post has inspired me to put a bit more work into it before I write the pen off as not working well for me and then selling / trading it. Most of the people I know who own 823s absolutely adore them and count them amongst their favorite pens, especially for daily use. I am going to give mine a bit more love and see if it loves me back

 

Many thanks again for the good advice -- much appreciated!

 

Best,

Chad

Edited January 13, 2017 by ChadRiggsbee

[Betweenthelines]

The twsbi vac and the 823 are in completely different leagues. It's not just the nib that's different.. though that alone is worth the extra cost of the pilot.. The pilot is an overall higher quality pen made with higher-quality materials and you can feel that as soon as you pick it up. The cracking issues are way overblown and in my opinion not really an issue at all or as you hear far more stories of it happening with twsbi plastic. I did have to increase the flow on my fine nib as I find that pilot ships they're fine nib writing too dry for my taste.. But that is an easy fix with brass shims. If I were you I would take the plunge the 823 is a really special pen.

[ItwasLuck]

The first pen I ever bought was a Pilot 823 in Medium. It's still in my rotation as one of 3 daily writers alongside two Viscontis. No matter what pens I have to change in the rotation, the 823 stays there. I'd go with the 823 in M if I were you. It's a very nice nib definitely don't go with the F it's too scratchy.

Just keep in mind I bought mine from Japan so I have the black one (not the amber one, that's kinda ugly imo). 215 shipped brand new, amazing deal. I don't think I would of bought it for 288 though. That's Conid territory!

[FountainClogger]

I replaced the Jowo nib on both of my TWSBIs with a Bock nib. It's a little softer so it makes it slightly more interesting to write with. I found the original Jowo nibs to be very stiff and to lack character.

 

Thanks, I'll look into that.

 

I'll back the 823. Got one last year, absolutely superb pen. The fine is truly fine, just a touch of tooth to make you aware of the writing surface. The filling system is fun to use.

 

The cracking problem was more or less exclusively something that happened to people who dismantled their pen (an action that is NOT recommended by Pilot, and which may invalidate your warranty).

 

I note that Matt Armstrong has recently posted a review of the 823 here:

 

Pilot Custom 823 - Review

 

Thanks, glad to hear the F nib is not too scratchy.

I've read the thread Bluey linked above (and all the others linked into that) and the cracking issue happened also to people who had not disassembled the pen; however it's difficult to reach a precise conclusion about the cause of the event.

 

 

 

Very good advice there -- thank you! I completely agree that a pen writing too dry is usually something that can be corrected by gently and slowly tinkering with the nib (flexing out the tines, flossing with a brass shim, etc.), at least in my experience (albeit pretty limited). I've done that to a few pens that were initially too dry for my liking, and they now work very well. Most of those were fixed up just by flossing the tines, not even by flexing out the tines or gently pulling them apart. Now that I think about it, I have yet to own a single dry-writing pen that I know for an absolute fact has a defective feed, or cannot be adjusted to write wetter by simply working on the nib.

 

To be completely fair to my 823, I have not gone to much trouble to adjust the nib to make the ink flow better. Your post has inspired me to put a bit more work into it before I write the pen off as not working well for me and then selling / trading it. Most of the people I know who own 823s absolutely adore them and count them amongst their favorite pens, especially for daily use. I am going to give mine a bit more love and see if it loves me back

 

Many thanks again for the good advice -- much appreciated!

 

Best,

Chad

 

It would be extremely interesting if you could report the results here once you'll have done the adjustment process.

 

The twsbi vac and the 823 are in completely different leagues. It's not just the nib that's different.. though that alone is worth the extra cost of the pilot.. The pilot is an overall higher quality pen made with higher-quality materials and you can feel that as soon as you pick it up. The cracking issues are way overblown and in my opinion not really an issue at all or as you hear far more stories of it happening with twsbi plastic. I did have to increase the flow on my fine nib as I find that pilot ships they're fine nib writing too dry for my taste.. But that is an easy fix with brass shims. If I were you I would take the plunge the 823 is a really special pen.

 

I'm on the fence right now, I'm inclined to wait for more feedback especially about the nib size.

 

The first pen I ever bought was a Pilot 823 in Medium. It's still in my rotation as one of 3 daily writers alongside two Viscontis. No matter what pens I have to change in the rotation, the 823 stays there. I'd go with the 823 in M if I were you. It's a very nice nib definitely don't go with the F it's too scratchy.

Just keep in mind I bought mine from Japan so I have the black one (not the amber one, that's kinda ugly imo). 215 shipped brand new, amazing deal. I don't think I would of bought it for 288 though. That's Conid territory!

 

Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm really concerned about the M nib, because my handwriting is a bit minute and condensed and it would really benefit from a finer nib. On the other hand, I keep reading that for some people the F nib is a bit scratchy and dry, and conversely the M nib is very smooth.

 

This is my handwriting with a Pilot Metropolitan M nib:

http://imageshack.com/a/img923/6294/cuYvko.jpg

Edited January 13, 2017 by FountainClogger

[Bluey]

The pilot is an overall higher quality pen made with higher-quality materials and you can feel that as soon as you pick it up. The cracking issues are way overblown and in my opinion not really an issue at all or as you hear far more stories of it happening with twsbi plastic.

Actually, there are probably as many cracking issues with the Pilot as with the TWSBI, and the TWSBI cracking issue does not apply so much to the Vac 700

 

I think you may be judging solely by brand when you say this, and therefore overestimating the Pilot and underestimating the TWSBI. Perhaps they are made of exactly the same material, and the difference in quality exists in your mind. In the same way that people buying a Montblanc believe that they are buying better quality because they pay a lot. It's a perceptual thing.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Bluey

[Pendimonium]

Just found Brian Goulet's opinion on Pilot nib sizes:

 

https://youtu.be/eUfLzDWlSpM?t=1m57s

 

"The fine nibs tend to be really find. The medium nibs tend to be a little bit on the fine side, but more conventional and the broads tend to be pretty standard broad size."

 

ThePenHabit seems to agree:

 

https://youtu.be/0TW38bIsRoY?t=7m28s

https://youtu.be/0TW38bIsRoY?t=13m57s

https://youtu.be/HtdIGocJhQg?t=14m10s

Edited January 13, 2017 by Pendimonium

[FountainClogger]

Just found Brian Goulet's opinion on Pilot nib sizes:

 

https://youtu.be/eUfLzDWlSpM?t=1m57s

 

"The fine nibs tend to be really find. The medium nibs tend to be a little bit on the fine side, but more conventional and the broads tend to be pretty standard broad size."

 

ThePenHabit seems to agree:

 

https://youtu.be/0TW38bIsRoY?t=7m28s

https://youtu.be/0TW38bIsRoY?t=13m57s

 

Thanks for these references. I already knew this, but in the case of the 823, as you can see in the pictures from nib-nook, the M nib seems to be particularly thick, and that's what worries me. If I knew it were a Japanese M (finer than a western one), I would probably have no doubt buying this pen.

Edited January 13, 2017 by FountainClogger

[Pendimonium]

Yeah, it's a really though decision. One more review to add to the confusion. Here he says his 823 M is basically like a western fine:

 

https://youtu.be/HtdIGocJhQg?t=14m10s

[Dr.Grace]

My 823's M nib is like a western fine-medium and is a little finer than the M nibs on my Custom 74s. Perhaps the M nibs on 823s vary a bit. I find Pilot's F nibs to be too fine, more like a western XF.

 

The 823 is wonderful, one of my favorite pens. The barrel on mine did crack when I reassembled it after taking it apart, but after Pilot replaced the barrel I've had no problems.

[FountainClogger]

My 823's M nib is like a western fine-medium and is a little finer than the M nibs on my Custom 74s. Perhaps the M nibs on 823s vary a bit. I find Pilot's F nibs to be too fine, more like a western XF.

 

The 823 is wonderful, one of my favorite pens. The barrel on mine did crack when I reassembled it after taking it apart, but after Pilot replaced the barrel I've had no problems.

 

Thanks for the info. It seems I have to change my mind and go for the M nib at this point.

[Pendimonium]

saskia_madding did an interesting broad vs medium nib comparison:

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/199360-pilot-custom-823-nib-medium-vs-broad/

[FountainClogger]

saskia_madding did an interesting broad vs medium nib comparison:

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/199360-pilot-custom-823-nib-medium-vs-broad/

 

Mm... More data, more confusion: either the medium is very fat or the broad is very thin.

Edited January 14, 2017 by FountainClogger

[Cryptos]

I posted this elsewhere but cannot find the image so re-uploaded.