Sailor 1911S Or 1911L?

[janicec]

Hi I'm currently deciding on whether I should get a sailor 1911S or a 1911L. I've heard people commenting that the 1911L has a smoother nib. Does anyone know if it's worth it to spend the money to get the 1911L or should I just stick to the 1911S?

 

If there are any better options from other brands, please do tell me. Thanks in advance!

[ChadRiggsbee]

In my experience, the most significant difference between the 1911 L and 1911 S is the size of the pen, both length and diameter, not necessarily the smoothness of the nib (at least for equivalent nib sizes, i.e., if both are mediums, etc.). The 1911 L is not that "large" of a pen -- it is similar in size to a Platinum 3776 Century, Pilot Custom 74 (maybe between it and the Custom 742), Lamy 2000, Montblanc 146, etc. For me, it is quite comfortable to write with unposted, but still very comfortable posted.

 

The 1911 S is a bit shorter and skinnier. I find it be fairly comfortable to write with unposted, but not as comfortable as the 1911 L. The smaller diameter is fine for me, but some people may find it a bit too skinny. I actually prefer to use my pens posted (I can be a bit paranoid about losing caps, haha), and the 1911 S feels almost PERFECT for me when posted. The end of the cap rests right on the web of my hand, but the edge is nicely rounded and smooth, and feels really comfortable. However, writing with it unposted is still fine for me if I am taking some quick notes. It is not so short unposted that it is borderline unusable, such as "pocket pens" like the Kaweco Sport, Pilot E95S, Sailor 21 pocket pen, etc. It straddles the line between a full-size pen and a pocket pen, being on the shorter end of what I subjectively define as a "full-size" pen.

 

I have a 1911 S that is one of my favorite daily writers, and although I would like to have a 1911 L, there are other pens of comparable size that I have bought instead, just because I did not find the feeling of the nib on the 1911 L to be significantly different from the nib on the 1911 S. The 21kt nib on the 1911 L is not noticeably smoother or springier than the 14kt nib on the 1911 S, in my experience. Both are pretty stiff, rigid nibs, and write with a very pleasant, soft feeling of feedback on the page (almost "velvety," if that makes sense). It is a really cool feeling, and I highly recommend getting a Sailor gold nib, whether the 14kt or 21kt, in your collection if you don't already have one.

 

The main difference I noticed between the nibs on the large vs small 1911 is the size of the nib itself. The 21kt nib on the large is noticeably bigger, kind of like the difference in nib size between the #5 nib on the Pilot Custom 74 / 91 / 92, and the #10 nib on the Custom 742 / 912. Both the small and large nibs have beautiful detailing, but it is more legible on the larger 21kt nib. However, it's pretty cool that Sailor can so finely and intricately decorate a nib as small as the one found on the 1911 S or Pro Gear Slim / Sapporo, so I appreciate that as well. Also, if you're looking for a more exotic Sailor specialty nib, like the Zoom, Cross Point, etc., you may not be able to find it on the 1911 S.

 

Overall, if you're going for a nib in a standard size (fine, fine-medium, medium, etc.), I would consider the size of the pen itself (length and diameter) first when determining whether to buy the 1911 S or 1911 L. Also, if you prefer a larger nib, the small one on the 1911 S may be a bit disappointing because it is fairly small. I don't notice a significant difference in the way the large or small writes, as far as smoothness, etc., but that's just my opinion and experience.

 

Whichever pen you choose, enjoy!

 

Best,

Chad

Edited January 7, 2017 by ChadRiggsbee

[jar]

I have never found a difference in performance between 1911L and 1911S nibs or between the 21K and 14K Sailor nibs. The difference really does come down to size. In the following pictures the Sailor 1911 pens are those with the black body.

 

http://www.fototime.com/67F4897AB99DEDF/medium800.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/EC9C668913A5669/medium800.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/65EA8DCB4397FB8/medium800.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/044DBC581367660/medium800.jpg

and writing samples:

http://www.fototime.com/29857646D6BD2CC/large.jpg

[Barry Gabay]

Good morning Janice & Chad,

 

Chad's comparison of the two pens is thorough, and I agree completely with his assessments and views. His alternative suggestions are also on the mark.

 

In my experience, the 21K nib on the 1911L v. 14K on 1911S likely contributes to the claims of nib differences. For me, the size of the nib has a greater impact than its gold content. Having owned both pens, I far prefer the 1911L, but that's because I like larger pens. The 1911S was just too small to feel comfortable in my hand. Ironically though, I like the Sailor Pro Gear Slim, roughly the same size as the 1911S but slightly fatter. It is currently my favorite "pocket pen." Additionally, I prefer the larger Pro Gear (believe it's called the Standard) to the Pro Gear Slim.

 

Janice, before investing in either pen, I'd suggest test driving both at a pen shop or pen show if at all possible.

 

Good luck with your hunt.

Enjoy the weekend.

 

Best wishes,

Barry

[ChadRiggsbee]

This is a fun thread! As always, Jar provided some fantastic eye candy, and a really useful comparison of the Sailor 1911 large and small pens to other classic, cigar shaped Japanese pens. Great collection -- thanks Jar! It had been a little while since I had handled a 1911 L, and it looks like I mistakenly remembered it being a bit larger than it actually is. It is almost spot-on similar in size to the Platinum 3776, and a fair bit shorter than the Pilot Custom 742 (even a bit shorter than the Custom 74, which I did not remember). Good stuff!

 

Great assessment by you too, Barry! I've been toying around lately with the idea picking up a Pro Gear, but I've only tried out the full size Pro Gear, not any of the smaller ones. I'll have to give that some careful consideration, and try to get my hands on a Sapporo / Slim at my next local pen meetup. I'm also toying around with the idea of whether to get the PG Realo if I do get the full size PG, or PG II. Ugh... decisions, decisions.... :-)

 

Not trying to head off on a tangent here, but there are two other Sailor pens I have been looking at online lately and thinking about picking up, and thought maybe someone on here had some experience with them and could give me their opinions: (1) the Sailor Promenade, and (2) the Pro Gear King of Pen. I've seen the Promenade online for some incredible prices, but there does not seem to be a great deal of info online about it, at least in terms of reviews. Have any of you tried one? The size looks really, really close to the 1911 S, even thought the shape is slightly different -- do you think it would be a redundant purchase already having a 1911 S? As for the PG King of Pen, I've not found as much info online about it as for other KOP models. The finishing on it looks fantastic (LOVE the cap band!), and the size seems like it might be really nice -- I've tried out the 1911/Profit KOP, as well as the ebonite KOP, but they are just a little bit long for my taste. Any experience with the PG KOP?

 

Thanks again folks, and take care!

 

- Chad

[Barry Gabay]

I always defer to my friend, Jar, on matters regarding Japanese fountain pens. He is an encyclopedia and a talented photographer!

 

I use a KoP Pro Gear almost daily. Standard M nib, although I had a standard B nib on one I used, sold, and now regret letting go. The KoP Pro Gear for me (and my hands aren't large) is comfortable posted or unposted. My KoP 1911 pens, both plastic and ebonite, tend to be more comfortable and better balanced when I use them unposted. In fact, I find that I'm now using both styles of KoP fountain pens more frequently than I do 149s or 1920s Senior Parker Duofolds, my long-time favorite large fountain pens.

 

One distinct advantage of the KoP and of Sailors in general is their cartridge/converter option. I am a life-long fan of cartridge pens, having begun using them in elementary school more than half a century ago and having never lost my affection for cartridges.

 

Yes, this is a fun thread to read while snowed in on the East Coast of US.

[ChadRiggsbee]

Good call on the c/c option on Sailors, Barry. I'm fairly new to fountain pens, so piston and vacuum fillers still have this "mystique" to me just because it's something I'm not very familiar with. However, if something goes awry with a filling system, it's much easier to replace a converter than to be faced with replacing an entire pen or having expensive repairs made to a piston or vacuum filler, I'd imagine. Plus, having the option of using cartridges when traveling, or just keeping some spares in the desk or laptop bag at work is very handy. That's a great bit of wisdom there -- thanks very much for sharing!

 

The KOP Pro Gear sounds awesome -- I think that just edged out the standard PG / PG II, c/c or Realo, for me as my next pen to pick up. Thanks very much again!

 

I'm on the East Coast too, in central North Carolina (Pittsboro, which is ~15 miles from either Chapel Hill or Cary / Raleigh). We got ~5-6 inches of snow last night, which is a veritable blizzard for us. Good day to sit around, chat about fountain pens, give some of my pens a much needed cleaning, and try out some new ink samples.

 

Thanks again folks -- take care!

 

Best,

Chad

[jar]

  On 1/7/2017 at 8:33 PM, ChadRiggsbee said:

Good call on the c/c option on Sailors, Barry. I'm fairly new to fountain pens, so piston and vacuum fillers still have this "mystique" to me just because it's something I'm not very familiar with. However, if something goes awry with a filling system, it's much easier to replace a converter than to be faced with replacing an entire pen or having expensive repairs made to a piston or vacuum filler, I'd imagine. Plus, having the option of using cartridges when traveling, or just keeping some spares in the desk or laptop bag at work is very handy. That's a great bit of wisdom there -- thanks very much for sharing!

 

The KOP Pro Gear sounds awesome -- I think that just edged out the standard PG / PG II, c/c or Realo, for me as my next pen to pick up. Thanks very much again!

 

I'm on the East Coast too, in central North Carolina (Pittsboro, which is ~15 miles from either Chapel Hill or Cary / Raleigh). We got ~5-6 inches of snow last night, which is a veritable blizzard for us. Good day to sit around, chat about fountain pens, give some of my pens a much needed cleaning, and try out some new ink samples.

 

Thanks again folks -- take care!

 

Best,

Chad

I know less and have far less experience when it comes to Japanese pens than when it comes to US and European pens. I just got my first Japanese pen about twenty years ago while I have been using US and European pens for over a half century. Please understand that and that I can only address personal preferences.

 

First, one thing I am sure of is that East Carolina BBQ is far superior to West Carolina BBQ or the yellow replica made in the South Carolina.

 

For some time a Sailor King of Pens has been calling out to me but unfortunately too many issues kept arising that have prevented my acquiring one. Most such issues are shown below.

 

http://www.fototime.com/405D64928CED22C/medium800.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/286DB25CF1DCEF3/medium800.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/53CE712A10E47BE/medium800.jpg

 

The last in that series, the Pilot 845 is the closest in size to the Sailor KOP Pro Gear but it was also the biggest disappointment of the all the problems that have come between me and a KOP PG. The real issue was simply that the BB nib on the Pilot Custom 845 was simply too wet for me to enjoy using and so I sold the pen almost immediately to someone who would really love it.

 

That does not mean I have given up on the idea of owning a Sailor King of Pens or that the Pro Gear format of the King of pens will not someday find it's way to me.

Edited January 7, 2017 by jar

[janicec]

Thank you for all of your amazing opinion! I think I'm going to go with the 1911S because I have rather small hands, and I'm kind of on a budget right now. I really appreciate the writing samples and the pictures.

[janicec]

  On 1/7/2017 at 4:57 PM, jar said:

I have never found a difference in performance between 1911L and 1911S nibs or between the 21K and 14K Sailor nibs. The difference really does come down to size. In the following pictures the Sailor 1911 pens are those with the black body.

 

http://www.fototime.com/67F4897AB99DEDF/medium800.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/EC9C668913A5669/medium800.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/65EA8DCB4397FB8/medium800.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/044DBC581367660/medium800.jpg

and writing samples:

http://www.fototime.com/29857646D6BD2CC/large.jpg

 

May I know what the nib size of the Sailor 1911s is? Thanks in advance!

[Drawing61]

You should choose a pen size you are comfortable with. If you like the qualities of a Sailor nib I don't think you will be disappointed.

[jar]

  On 1/7/2017 at 11:45 PM, janicec said:

 

May I know what the nib size of the Sailor 1911s is? Thanks in advance!

All those pens had a medium nib. It was a comparison of Japanese , US and European medium nib pens.

[ItsMeDave]

My vote goes for the L.

My first good pen was a 1911S, but I found it too small and gave it to a friend.

Now I've got three sailors, two 1911L's (demonstrator/gold and black/rhodium) and a Pro Gear Realo, all with M/F nibs, and I love 'em all.

 

I found the S to write every bit as good as the L.

 

Cheers,

 

David

[janicec]

Thanks, Jar and David!

[ink-syringe]

I went through this choice recently and decided to get the 1911 S. The 21k thing is silly. I have a fistful of pens from the earlier part of the century all with 14k nibs that are fantastic, the extra carats are a scam and the nibs are hard as nails anyway. And the size difference isn't that much either and the 1911 S actually has much better color options.

 

THEN I WENT TO THE BRICK AND MORTOR AND TRIED THEM.

 

The choice was even clearer in real life than it was in the abstract. 1911 L. ALL the 1911 Ls i tried were incredible. All the 1911 S pens I tried were, uh, pretty nice. & the 1911 L was the ergonomic winner. If you has asked me last week I would have told you the 1911 S is good enough, and really is more pen for the money, but once I tried the 1911 L there was no going back. Boring back finish and all. I just found the 1911 Ls to be much better writers over all. My pen guy let me try a bunch and get a sampling.

 

YMMV

[zchen]

  On 1/7/2017 at 6:38 PM, ChadRiggsbee said:

Not trying to head off on a tangent here, but there are two other Sailor pens I have been looking at online lately and thinking about picking up, and thought maybe someone on here had some experience with them and could give me their opinions: (1) the Sailor Promenade, and (2) the Pro Gear King of Pen. I've seen the Promenade online for some incredible prices, but there does not seem to be a great deal of info online about it, at least in terms of reviews. Have any of you tried one? The size looks really, really close to the 1911 S, even thought the shape is slightly different -- do you think it would be a redundant purchase already having a 1911 S? As for the PG King of Pen, I've not found as much info online about it as for other KOP models. The finishing on it looks fantastic (LOVE the cap band!), and the size seems like it might be really nice -- I've tried out the 1911/Profit KOP, as well as the ebonite KOP, but they are just a little bit long for my taste. Any experience with the PG KOP?

 

Thanks again folks, and take care!

 

- Chad

 

 

Just on the Promenade, in my view it is a slightly better value than a regular 1911S. Simply because it implemented a spring loaded inner cap similar to Platinum's 3776 century. This feature is not found on the regular 1911S or 1911L lines for Sailor, it is only found on the Promenade, Realo, and KOP pens. It doesn't mean the inner cap on the regular 1911S is bad at retarding nib dry out, it's fine, but if you are starting out, why not go with the superior system.

 

The only other bit of difference that contributes to the Promenade's lower price is that the gold nib of 1911 line are all finished with 24k plating to give it that yellow gold appearance, where as the Promenade's is 14K gold without the 24K plating.

[ChadRiggsbee]

  On 1/7/2017 at 9:41 PM, jar said:

I know less and have far less experience when it comes to Japanese pens than when it comes to US and European pens. I just got my first Japanese pen about twenty years ago while I have been using US and European pens for over a half century. Please understand that and that I can only address personal preferences.

 

First, one thing I am sure of is that East Carolina BBQ is far superior to West Carolina BBQ or the yellow replica made in the South Carolina.

 

For some time a Sailor King of Pens has been calling out to me but unfortunately too many issues kept arising that have prevented my acquiring one. Most such issues are shown below.

 

http://www.fototime.com/405D64928CED22C/medium800.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/286DB25CF1DCEF3/medium800.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/53CE712A10E47BE/medium800.jpg

 

The last in that series, the Pilot 845 is the closest in size to the Sailor KOP Pro Gear but it was also the biggest disappointment of the all the problems that have come between me and a KOP PG. The real issue was simply that the BB nib on the Pilot Custom 845 was simply too wet for me to enjoy using and so I sold the pen almost immediately to someone who would really love it.

 

That does not mean I have given up on the idea of owning a Sailor King of Pens or that the Pro Gear format of the King of pens will not someday find it's way to me.

 

Dear Jar:

 

Those are some very compelling issues -- wow!!! Your Nakaya collection is amazing (the shade of blue on the top two pens is absolutely GORGEOUS), but the Izumos in the middle picture stopped me in my tracks. The red one in the top of that picture is beautiful! Is that one you have owned for a while, where the urushi lacquer has aged and allowed more of the lighter shade underneath the top coats to begin to peek through, or did it arrive with such an incredible finish? In either case, it is beautiful, and the clips on those are the coolest looking clips I think I have ever seen on a pen, bar none -- thank you for sharing! That's too bad about the 845 not working out, but the vermillion color on it is stunning as well.

 

I have to commend you on your impeccable taste in fine North Carolina barbecue. I humbly and readily admit that my friends and neighbors residing in the counties west of me have concocted a mighty fine topping / side item with their "red slaw." However, their practice of smoking pork all day to delicious perfection only to then slather it in a runny form of ketchup is terribly strange. South Carolina's "yellow replica," as you accurately described it, is a fairly entertaining culinary novelty item, akin to fried Oreos and candy bars at the state fair. It is tastier than it initially sounds like it would be (mustard barbecue???), but I can't imagine eating it more often than once every couple of years.

[jar]

  On 1/10/2017 at 1:20 AM, ChadRiggsbee said:

 

Dear Jar:

 

Those are some very compelling issues -- wow!!! Your Nakaya collection is amazing (the shade of blue on the top two pens is absolutely GORGEOUS), but the Izumos in the middle picture stopped me in my tracks. The red one in the top of that picture is beautiful! Is that one you have owned for a while, where the urushi lacquer has aged and allowed more of the lighter shade underneath the top coats to begin to peek through, or did it arrive with such an incredible finish?

 

I don't really remember on the Izumo. Urushi pens change so gradually it's only when I hold one in my hand and look at a picture taken a few years earlier that I can see that there is a difference. Plus that pen is one that really shows fantastic differences depending on the light. This isn't the thread for it but I think I posted some pictures of the pen all taken the same day under indoor, filtered outdoor and bright sunlight somewhere here.