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Qotw - 2017

smk

By smk
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Randal6393 Antique

Randal6393

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Thank you, Ken. Since I was first responder, I claim the right to put up one of Basho's Summer Haiku as next week's quote:

 

In bright summer moon,

 

and with softly clapping hands,

 

I herald the dawn.

Yours,
Randal

From a person's actions, we may infer attitudes, beliefs, --- and values. We do not know these characteristics outright. The human dichotomies of trust and distrust, honor and duplicity, love and hate --- all depend on internal states we cannot directly experience. Isn't this what adds zest to our life?

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MercianScribe Extremely Rare

MercianScribe

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Posted (edited)

Thank you, Ken. Since I was first responder, I claim the right to put up one of Basho's Summer Haiku as next week's quote:

 

In bright summer moon,

 

and with softly clapping hands,

 

I herald the dawn.

 

 

Nice! I like that translation! Here's mine:

 

Echoes of a handclap

A prayer to the dawn

The next bright summer moon

 

My analysis (don't read this if you don't like literary analysis - it may spoil your appreciation! But, I hope, as a translator, it adds to your experience of Basho's mastery):

 

It's one clap: and it's a call to a prayer to the sun at the very break of dawn. And just as the moon shines brightest just before dawn, it's a September scene, and the 'akuru' is the kanji for 'bright' but the meaning is 'the following (dawn/day usually)', so here I think Basho was alluding to the last moon of the summer heralding the anticipation of the next summer. Most translators take the 'bright' meaning as explicit and ignore the allusion to 'next', but I think to Japanese people, who understand both implications of the word and its 'spelling', the brightness is the more obvious part, and should remain unstated, and the 'next' is the pertinent reference: the transcendental time reference so important to haiku. For westerners to read, the inclusion of 'bright' is probably prudent; but my translation could just as well omit it.

 

And here's the amazing thing: to some extent, 'dawn', and 'pray' or even 'herald' are all also implied! The reference to dawn is also through the same word 'akuru' - meaning 'next (specifically, the next day)' therefore by definition, the dawn of the following day. The idea of 'praying', or in some western translations, 'heralding' is only implied through the handclap: Basho's contemporaries (and most modern Japanese people who think about haiku!) would have known the handclap signified the call to a kami (spirit/god) to hear a prayer, but nowhere are 'prayer/herald' nor 'bright' mentioned!

 

Here's (maybe!) the rawest possible translation:

 

When a handclap echoes in the dawn's summer moon

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are amazing , Ken..

 

Isn't he! Thanks for the notes on flourishes on the other thread, too, Ken.

Edited by MercianScribe

Hi, I'm Mat


:)

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dms525 Antique

dms525

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MercianScribe,

 

I know next to nothing about Haiku. Basho is a familiar name, but little more. That said, I found your "literary analysis" fascinating - very thought provoking regarding language and culture. Thank you for that contribution! I will appreciate Haiku more because of it.

 

David

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MercianScribe Extremely Rare

MercianScribe

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Thanks, that's what I hoped. Of course, I'm not a poet (I have written some, with varying degrees of strictness of metre, western and Japanese - but I wouldn't claim to be a poet!), I'm a translator, so I can get bogged down in the minutiae. But then, sometimes, especially with haiku and tanka, since they're all about double/multiple meanings, and things like the implied seasonal references, that approach can be useful!

 

Anyway, I should stop wittering and get on with getting some calligraphy on this thread!

Hi, I'm Mat


:)

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Randal6393 Antique

Randal6393

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Thanks, MercianScribe,

 

I only have the English rendition. So miss a lot of the finer points. Do remember the New Year's Festivals and clapping one time (along with the Japanese) to call the attention of the Kami to my prayer. I like your translation more than the one my book has. Gives a lot different meaning to the poem, also illuminates why Basho is considered the eminent Haiku poet of Japan.

 

Haiku are such a simple art form but, like much poetry written in Kanji characters, are meant to be ambiguous and read many ways. One of the reasons I enjoy the form so much.

 

Yes, please post -- both English and Japanese, if you have the poem available in both forms.

 

Thanks, enjoy,

Edited by Randal6393

Yours,
Randal

From a person's actions, we may infer attitudes, beliefs, --- and values. We do not know these characteristics outright. The human dichotomies of trust and distrust, honor and duplicity, love and hate --- all depend on internal states we cannot directly experience. Isn't this what adds zest to our life?

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DrCodfish Collectors Item

DrCodfish

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MS:

​Great post! It gave me pause. There is no absolute lateral translation between languages, the possible exception (at times) being British English and 'American' English. If you know a little French, or Spanish, or German, you may get a better or different sense of a translated passage or poem. I know nothing of the Japanese language and very little of the culture so, like Randal I must rely on the translator to understand a particular haiku. Your post shined light on the elements that form the language which I would otherwise not have been aware of. Very useful for me, thanks so much. I have a Koi pond, and as my fish have grown I have looked deeper into the history. Obviously a culture that is so much older than ours has something to teach us if we can take the time to learn.

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dms525 Antique

dms525

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A Newton Bamboo Eastman seemed most appropriate to write out this haiku.

 

David

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amberleadavis Pen Dust

amberleadavis

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David, I saw the wax proofs for your pen, it is really amazing and that ebonite is spectacular.

Fountain pens are my preferred COLOR DELIVERY SYSTEM (in part because crayons melt in Las Vegas).

Create a Ghostly Avatar and I'll send you a letter. Check out some Ink comparisons: The Great PPS Comparison 

Don't know where to start?  Look at the Inky Topics O'day.  Then, see inks sorted by color: Blue Purple Brown Red Green Dark Green Orange Black Pinks Yellows Blue-Blacks Grey/Gray UVInks Turquoise/Teal MURKY

 

 

 

 

 

 

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dms525 Antique

dms525

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David, I saw the wax proofs for your pen, it is really amazing and that ebonite is spectacular.

 

Thanks, Amberlea! It's all true, what you said.

 

David

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Randal6393 Antique

Randal6393

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Dang, David, that's great. I love that Bamboo Eastman, so many luscious colours and the warmth of ebonite to boot.

 

Enjoy,

Yours,
Randal

From a person's actions, we may infer attitudes, beliefs, --- and values. We do not know these characteristics outright. The human dichotomies of trust and distrust, honor and duplicity, love and hate --- all depend on internal states we cannot directly experience. Isn't this what adds zest to our life?

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dms525 Antique

dms525

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Dang, David, that's great. I love that Bamboo Eastman, so many luscious colours and the warmth of ebonite to boot.

 

Enjoy,

 

Thanks, Randal. I am enjoying it a lot.

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bobje Collectors Item

bobje

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fpn_1504451788__matsuo-basho-summer-dawn

 

 

Wingsung 698 with a modified fine nib, Monteverde red velvet ink, Staples ivory 25-pound paper

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Andrew_L Collectors Item

Andrew_L

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fpn_1504451788__matsuo-basho-summer-dawn

 

 

 

Hi everybody!

It's hard for me to understand the meaning of a double translation (Japanese-English-Ukrainian), especially since it's a hoku, but ...

 

https://images.vfl.ru/ii/1504596632/a770409c/18486115_m.jpg

 

https://images.vfl.ru/ii/1504596632/8fc6d97b/18486116_m.jpg

 

https://images.vfl.ru/ii/1504596632/f967af7d/18486117_m.jpg

 

https://images.vfl.ru/ii/1504596632/b75d9d2d/18486118_m.jpg

 

ps: the last two weeks were a little confusing: many different quotes and lack of certainty right.

About fountain pens, inks and arts: http://lenskiy.org

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Andrew_L Collectors Item

Andrew_L

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From the first time it is very difficult to write text correctly and goodly (and each time to make a sketch laborious), so I write the text hoku separately :)

 

https://images.vfl.ru/ii/1504596703/77e007e0/18486123_m.jpg

 

https://images.vfl.ru/ii/1504596703/2fd1de9a/18486124_m.jpg

About fountain pens, inks and arts: http://lenskiy.org

or watch on social networks

Facebook: @ArtDesignPenS

Telegram: @ArtDesignPenS

Pinterest: ArtDesignPenS

Instagram: @andrew.lensky

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