Bursting The Grail Pen Bubble?

[Noihvo]

 

 

 

 

[jar]

You are unlikely to know the answer until you have had the experience.

[OmegaMountain]

I believe when you get to that level of pen you are not paying for increased performance of the instrument itself - you are paying for the artistry involved in creating it. That's probably what you have to come to terms with when considering spending that much on a pen. There's only so good the writing experience can get from the performance standpoint.

[jar]

I believe when you get to that level of pen you are not paying for increased performance of the instrument itself - you are paying for the artistry involved in creating it. That's probably what you have to come to terms with when considering spending that much on a pen. There's only so good the writing experience can get from the performance standpoint.

That depends a great deal on what a user considers "the writing experience".

[penmanila]

imho, at the level of grail pens, it will always be more than being about the writing capabilities of the pen itself--ie, more than the nib, the balance, etc. "the writing experience" will involve the aesthetics of the pen itself, the sense of satisfaction one gets from using what he or she feels to be a superior instrument, a marriage of art and engineering (plus a good dose of marketing).

 

my answer to the OP is, i've been perfectly happy with my grails--an agatha christie and an ernest hemingway, of which i have two each--even given that they've shown minor "imperfections" in appearance and maybe even performance. i use them (at least one of each) on a daily basis, and they may have acquired small nicks here and there, but i don't mind. at 62, i have only so many years left to enjoy them, and that's what a grail pen has always been for me--the pen i have always wanted to have and to use. (although i don't necessarily believe that every pen you own is meant to be used--i keep a few mint vintage pens in precisely that condition.)

[dapprman]

My view is that by definition a grail pen stops being a grail pen if you can afford it and it is possible to be bought, regardless of whether you actually buy it or not. The whole point about a grail item is that you will never ever be able to buy it, hence a grail as in holy grail.

[Bluey]

The grail pen doesn't exist. It's a figment of people's idealised imagination. The moment you own it, the magic has gone. Some things are best left in the imagination.

 

Often with pens that expensive you're lucky if they even write because the focus will never be on how well they write - it's a mere secondary consideration at best. It may feel special because of the price you paid but it's an illusion.

Hope it works out, but good luck.

Edited December 25, 2016 by Bluey

[jmccarty3]

I am finding that the rarer the pen, and the harder I have had to search for it, the less likely I am to write with it, but rather just to admire and play with it. Perhaps I am afraid I will be disappointed with the pen. I have eight or ten pens like this.

 

As for the Pelikan Maki-e pens, they are beautifully done, but they produce too much esthetic cognitive dissonance for me. I much prefer Maki-e pens that are Japanese, not Teutonic, in design.

[Bo Bo Olson]

It took me some 55 years to get my first grail pen....a Snorkel. It was an adult pen....and of course one would get one when one was old enough to have a real job.

There I was having gone to the BX to buy an expensive Cross ball point, and I stared at the Snorkel. I was mugged by the P-75 brothers.

So never got that Snorkel. Living in Germany it was hard to chase Snorkels...and I wanted a special one if so...rolled gold President, Saratoga or something like that. I settled for an Australian one with a maxi-semi-flex factory BB stub.

I had of course got my second grail pen first a P-51.

 

There is always a grail pen in the magazine. As soon as you get it, the next is ready to be wanted.

 

My Grail pens are a Soennecken 111 Extra in herring bone. The best pen of the '50s.

After waiting some 3-4 months with the money....I spent it. (A Pelikan 500 was one of a flock I bought. I'd never even thought of the 500 as it was too expensive.....being retired !@#$%^ Budget is a new word.)

So I don't see ever getting 111. Cost three years ago....E500. (Some idiot wanted to sell one Buy Now for only $1,000. )

or a Osmia Supra...a '30's pen....cost three years ago...E350.

http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o707/boboolson1/B01Jfw2kKGrHqRg4Ew5FYulSBMcCgocBw_12_zpsp2ijwby5.jpg

http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o707/boboolson1/B01JREwEWkKGrHqNjUEpeRZ0OLBMcCW45dIg_12_zpsbgqqtwfq.jpg

[praxim]

My grail pens, meaning those I really love to have and would replace if necessary, are discovered after I have purchased them. In every instance the first criterion is the pleasure and ease of writing with the pen so no pen was a "grail" before I bought it. Some were relatively expensive and some were less so.

[Bo Bo Olson]

That is a very good way of seeing it.

[Runnin_Ute]

Is there or has there been a so called "grail" pen for me. Not really. There have been two or three pens I admired from afar for a period of time, some still out there (at least one) others have been acquired. But I wouldn't necessarily c all them grails. A Parker 45 Flighter, a Pelikan M2xx, a Platinum 3776 Century Bourgogne. All of which I have and use regularly. None are particularly expensive. One that is still out there, but I have wanted for some time? A Pelikan 140, a Pelikan tortoise (which is less likely to ever be acquired)

 

Those may be grails depending on how you define a grail pen.

 

For me these two are pens that I don't lose sleep over, but I would like to obtain someday. But if I don't, it isn't a big deal. I don't have a burning passion to pursue them. And that may be the thing that is the difference in them being a grail and not.

[zaddick]

To the OP's question: Yes, but that does not mean I regret the purchase. Unlike some, I do a fairly good job of managing expectations so I more or less know what I am getting into.

 

Life is too short. Try to enjoy the ride however you see fit.

[Noihvo]

 

 

 

[Sandy Fry]

Don't have a grail pen. Won't ever have a grail pen. If I like it and can afford it, I buy it. I don't lust over any pens.

 

David

[Mrpink]

Its all about the hunt. I'm like Indiana Jones after the Holy Grail adventuring and then it becomes a museum piece which sits there in the drawer. I don't have one, I don't want one maybe because of my age and everything in the world has lost its lustre to me. Now I just see these expensive pens and ask why, just make a pen that functions good and I will pay what its worth. I love function the function of a pen.

[thygreyt]

I agree. A grail is not necessary the most expensive pen in the collection, but rather your favorite, your ultimate. Depending on taste your grail could be a preppy with a stub nib. Who knows?

 

For me, my ultimate pen would be a Montblanc 146, custom cursive italic nib and semi Flex.

 

But it may change... Let's see.

[Baalberithim]

I think the problem with grail pens is multi-dimensional, and these aspects can play into whether the grail bubble is burst. First, everyone seems to have their own definition for what constitutes a grail pen, but I think a common thread is that all the definitions tend to track further and further afield as time goes on, rather than having a single, unchanging grail. I think the definition one uses will tend to influence how much the bubble is burst, if it ever is. Another big factor is how much one reads into hype. In a way, I find my enjoyment of my pens increases the more I abstain from the fountain pen community, as I simply appreciate what I have for what it is. If you don't keep it in mind, it's very easy to get caught up in thinking that every truly great pen ought to have been custom made, with a gold nib capable of obscene amounts of flex from rare materials, because you frequently see others very happy with their custom pens or flex nibs, and others suitably impressed by them. It becomes a fountain pen game of keeping up appearances, which is easy to slip into if you don't pay attention. Suddenly you've purchased several vintage flex pens and realized that you don't particularly care for flex (or in my case, you're a left-handed hook writer who doesn't care enough to adapt to underwriting so as to be able to use if properly; I found it easier to just use my right hand), and you have all these pens that are more finicky than you like due to a feature you see no use for.

 

For some, it is simply a pen that is too expensive for a person to imagine purchasing. This, I think, is where you see people that have a TWSBI 580 or a Lamy 2000 as their grail pens, much to the consternation of others who feel these pens aren't worthy of the title. They are, of course, widely available and not necessarily terribly expensive. However, for the person who has been happy with Pilot G2s all their life and hesitantly dropped $30 on a Metropolitan and a bottle of ink, it's easy to see how it may seem like a small fortune to spend on a pen. Since these pens do generally tend to have features that either improve their writing experience (steel versus gold nibs for some folks) or improve their practicality (piston-fillers versus C/C), I think that these individuals generally tend to be satisfied with their grail pens, but their grail pens may shift upwards in price over time as they realize that they do get something more for their money. They may eventually set themselves a hard upper limit, or they might realize that they no longer see significant enough functional improvements beyond a certain price point, and don't value the aesthetic flourishes enough to justify the increased costs. I don't know if these changes are as much disappointment as they are a broadening of horizons in what the person finds worthwhile for their pen purchases.

 

I believe another main camp for grail pens is those who view a grail pen as the culmination of a fountain pen as a fusion of every day tool and objet d'art. For these folks, it's often the uniqueness and the process in combination with it's actual writing performance that make the pen so desirable. I think that the higher end Maki-e pens and Nakayas are a solid example of this sort. You can often get the same materials, nibs, and overall design for substantially cheaper, but it's an aesthetic pursuit as much as it is chasing after a perfect writing experience. I think that these can lend themselves to disappointment for a couple of reasons. The first and simplest is that your tastes may change over time, so that the maki-e dragon you found so aesthetically pleasing no longer appeals to you. You may also find that too much emphasis was placed on the design and presentation and there's too great a dissonance in its performance and its appearance so that the pen is disappointing to write with. Or you might just be too overwhelmed by the pen, worried to use it lest you somehow ruin it. There's also the simple thrill of pursuing the pen, which wears off once you've acquired your long term goal, and leaves you looking for another pen.

 

For either group, I think marketing and hype also plays a big role in this eventual disappointment, depending on how much one buys into it. For such a small niche, there's certainly a great amount of effort put into portraying some brands as the elite or ultimate. There's also a good deal of discussion and praise for many features that each person needs to decide "Do I actually want a pen that does X myself, or do I merely think I should want such a pen?" It seems like a silly question to ask, but in asking it of myself, I find myself avoiding a good many pens that I know I wouldn't enjoy using after a few moments' reflection.

 

I've been thinking about grail pens a lot recently, and more generally pen acquisition and usage. Perhaps I'm simply projecting my own thoughts and experiences on to others. Regardless, I'm increasingly dissatisfied with the term grail pen itself, though I'm not sure I have a good replacement in mind. It certainly seems to have fallen victim to semantic saturation, though, and makes conversation on the topic rather difficult as a result.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Grail pens change with monetary borders. IMO it has to do with what is on the borders of affordable; where one must sacrifice.

The rolled gold trimmed Geha 725 at 100E in Ebay was always too expensive for me to even think of when I'd only broken the 50E border once.

There it was in England when England was in South Africa or lost it's money betting on England in soccer.

I got a Geha 725 for only 50E..... The next week two went for E25 in Germany....it was and is still a Grail pen...it's beauty, it's inlaid nib. It is one of the sleekest best balanced medium-long pens. Semi-flex. I do have to take a picture of the clip, two lines make it the classiest of all clips.

A pen designed to do what it did...stomp MB into a mudpuddle.

With permission of Penboard.de

http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o707/boboolson1/Goldschwing%20nib-2%20-%20Copy_zpslfjx1ael.jpg

http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o707/boboolson1/geha1%20-%20Copy_zpstockjbgs.jpg

 

 

My grail pen replacement a Pelikan 500tortoise; rolled gold cap, clip and piston cap cover.....a pen I never expected to own. It had never even registered as a pen to think about. I stumbled across it, and bought it for 160E when the money for my Soennecken Grail pen burnt a hole in my pocket.

 

Soennecken....111 extra....an oversized pen more the 149 size than the then medium-large 146. The best pen made in the world in the '50s...then and perhaps now. According to Lambrau. Fancy herringbone. 3-4 years ago 500E.

 

Why don't I use my 500 more?...I'd have to swap nibs...in the 30 degree OBBB maxi-semi-flex is so wide, I'd use up 2/3s of a page just to write my three name legal name. I could put in a different nib; I have enough of them.

It don't balance as well as a plastic capped Pelikan 400 ....in the rolled gold cap is heavier. It's like using the 215...something to get use too a tad.

It is pretty enough...and pretty enough in the display case. Is it still a grail pen....of course one of the greatest signature pens ever made...with that nib.

 

Well I do have another set of jewelry bracelet boxes** I use for my best inked pens. Like my Woolf or my rolled gold MB 742.

 

**Those are for inked pens....just added another pen to jewelry boxes in the drawer instead of in the cup selection.

 

Is that 500 still a grail pen.....yes. Like my Woolf...even if the Woolf was only a grail pen some 15 minutes as I decided to take it instead One of Their Kind or how ever Pelikan limited certain pens or the Aurora Verde...one knows how it is ....one takes a MB in it's cheap.

Well, all three were on sale,... ....I'm not going to pay retail if I can help it.

 

I really like the looks of that nib .... bling just for my eyes.....not across the table.

A grail pen is; outside it is something real special like that Soennecken 111 Extra in Herringbone or a Paul E. Wirt pen, is a pen one don't yet have.

Or I'd stopped after I got my Snorkel. I only waited 50 years for.

Woolf Nib...permission of Pentime. He takes a much better picture then I can. Same with Pen Princess for the Geha.

http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o707/boboolson1/IMG_0641-1_zpsf9zit5tg.jpg

Edited December 26, 2016 by Bo Bo Olson

[jar]

Well, I'll ask him, but I don't think he will be very keen. Uh, he's already got one, you see.