Nostalgic Color - Mimeograph?

[Manalto]

I'm reviving this thread because while grocery shopping today, I came across a bottle of gentian violet (violeta genciana - I'm in Puerto Rico). It's a 1% solution in 10% ethyl alcohol and purified water. Brand name is Kari-B, distributed by Mardo International in Rio Piedras, PR. One ounce (30 ml) cost $1.79. (When I had asked for it in a couple of pharmacies in Connecticut, the reactions were as if I had requested Lydia Pinkham.)

 

When I get back home I'm going to try some in an inexpensive pen.

[HollyDav]

Well I'm brand new here and I can't believe this thread. A couple days ago I put my sample of J. Herbin Violete Pensee into my nifty Pilot Metro fine nib and when I wrote with it the first thing I thought of was the mimeograph. I think the smell actually wafted through the room. Do you think others of a certain generation are nostalgic for the mimeograph scent or is it just pen & ink aficionados?

 

I love seeing that video of the machine in action! On of my class rooms was near the office where the mimeograph machine was housed and I remember hearing the sounds of our quizzes being run off.

[amberleadavis]

Manalto, let us know what you think. (Remember alcohol is not good for some plastics/resins).

 

HollyDav, welcome aboard.

[Manalto]

  On 3/10/2017 at 5:05 PM, HollyDav said:

Do you think others of a certain generation are nostalgic for the mimeograph scent or is it just pen & ink aficionados?

 

Oh, I think those who grew up with the scent universally have fond memories, with the occasional outlyer who "just hated it."

 

Welcome, Holly!

 

  On 3/10/2017 at 10:15 PM, amberleadavis said:

(Remember alcohol is not good for some plastics/resins).

 

 

I wondered about that, and also, if the gentian violet is organically derived (and not synthesized), if that component might have the potential for getting gummy. I'll try it in an expendible Hero 616, but I really want to see its performance with a stub nib.

[Sinistral1]

I haven't read this entire thread, but gentian violet is one of the ingredients in a home made recipe I use to clean my dog's ears with! The other ingredient is rubbing alcohol. Just saying.

[Manalto]

Yes, GV's medicinal use was brought up, by me as well as others. Your dog is lucky to have a caring owner. Maybe this means it's impossible to write infectious lyrics with gentian violet?

[amberleadavis]

That's punny.

[amberleadavis]

Well, an FPNer found some old mimeograph ink!

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/341039-giovanni-gnocchi-ink/

[BaronWulfraed]

Confusing thread...

 

From my school days "ditto" (more formally "spirit copier") used a reverse "carbon paper" system. One placed the blue waxy "carbon" face up under a sheet of paper and produced the master (typed/ball-point with heavy pressure). The /back/ of the original became the master as the wax transferred to it. The copier then drew blank paper into the press, coating it with an alcohol (or similar solvent) and pressed the master to it. Each copy produced would be slightly more distorted as the pressure spread the wax. Obviously, a limit to the number of copies that could be produced.

 

"Mimeograph", however, was used for something closer to a silk-screen process. Special "fabric" paper was placed into the typewriter, and the ink ribbon was disengaged. Typing transferred the coating from the fabric onto a backing sheet. When the sheet is separated, the master fabric layer became a stencil with "holes" for the text, and a moisture repelling coating where the type did not strike. The copier worked by pressing ink through the fabric and into contact with paper sheets. These did not have a limit to the number of copies. They used a fairly thick -- printing? -- ink.

 

My 9th grade "English" class did an exercise in producing a "newspaper" (just a one-shot, not a regularly issued item). I was one of the typists (and provided a cross-word puzzle and very bad short story) -- using spirit copier media. My father used the mimeograph stencil material to put out the weekly menu for the base.

[ErrantSmudge]

I always thought mimeograph and ditto were the same thing.... The More You Know.

 

So what color was the ink used for the mimeograph process? Was it the darker blue (like the aforementioned Imperial Blue), or could you use any color of ink for mimeographs? And the violet ink similar to J. Herbin Violet Pensee is what we associate with dittos?

 

I have to say these historical color matching threads (mimeographs, Enzo Ferraris ink, International Klein Blue) are among my favorites on FPN.

Edited November 17, 2018 by ErrantSmudge

[uceroy]

  On 11/16/2018 at 8:26 PM, amberleadavis said:

Well, an FPNer found some old mimeograph ink!

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/341039-giovanni-gnocchi-ink/

Not sure if it's mimeograph ink, since I never heard of it before.. 😂

But since you asked me to post it here too

[BaronWulfraed]

  On 11/17/2018 at 6:32 AM, ErrantSmudge said:

So what color was the ink used for the mimeograph process? Was it the darker blue (like the aforementioned Imperial Blue), or could you use any color of ink for mimeographs? And the violet ink similar to J. Herbin Violet Pensee is what we associate with dittos?

 

As I recall, the Army was using a black ink. And I have vague memories that it was a rather thick ink, since it gets squeezed through the "fabric" of the stencil.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_duplicator

  Quote

 

The usual wax color was aniline purple (mauve), a cheap, moderately durable pigment that provided good contrast, but masters were also manufactured in red, green, blue, black, and the hard-to-find orange, yellow, and brown. All except black reproduced in pastel shades: pink, mint, sky blue, and so on.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimeograph

  Quote

 

The ink originally had a lanolin base.^[11] and later became an oil in water emulsion. This emulsion commonly used Turkey-Red Oil (Sulfated Castor Oil) which gives it a distinctive and heavy scent.

  Quote

 

Because changing ink color in a mimeograph could be a laborious process, involving extensively cleaning the machine or, on newer models, replacing the drum or rollers,

[amberleadavis]

@Baron - you must be correct and I've conflated the two machines. My apologies.

Here was the post I made on the other thread.

Take a picture of that page tomorrow and let's see if it darkens. I think you have some of what was over here was used in a Gestetner (see an OLD one below). The copies were not made with computers, but you would create a special stencil and the copies were called mimeographs.

Here was one of the machines when I was a kid.



We had a whole thread about what the color of the old mimeographs actually was. I'll try and find that thread so that you can post this picture. This is a great find. Thank you for sharing!



Here is an "antique".



https://victoriancollections.net.au/items/58b3b81fd0ce260f2cdfe2b0

This Gestetner Cyclostyle duplicating machine was invented and manufactured by David Gestetner. He claimed in 1922, once he had released several models, that if a Gestetner Durotype stencil was used together with his Cyclostyle machine, then 10,000 copies could be made from the one Durotype stencil, an amazing claim for office technology of that era.[/size]

David Gestetner (1854-1939), was born in Csoma, Hungary. He has been called the “founder of the worldwide office copying and duplicator industry.). He moved to London and in 1879 filed his first copying patent. In 1881 he patented the Cyclostyle stylus (or pen), which was used in conjunction with his Cyclograph device for copying text and images, He established the Gestetner Cyclograph Company in England at this time (1881) to protect his inventions and to produce his products; stencils, stylos (stylus or pen) and ink rollers. HIs inventions included nail-clipper and the ball-point pen (although the latter is more commonly associated with Laszlo Biro). [/size]

Gestetner’s patented Cyclograph duplicator was used with his Cyclostyle Stylus or pen to write or draw on special thin wax-coated stencil paper (originally used for kite making paper) in the following way; [/size]
1. The Cyclostyle stencil was placed on a lower, framed metal plate of the Cyclograph[/size]
2. An upper frame was clipped over the top[/size]
3. The Cyclostyle pen, with its tip being a small metal-spiked or toothed wheel, was used to write or draw on the stencil, punched small holes into the paper and removed the wax coating in those places[/size]
4. The upper frame and stencil was then removed and a piece of blank paper was placed onto the metal plate in the lower frame and the upper frame with stencil was replaced[/size]
5. A roller was given an even distribution of Cyclostyle ink and rolled by hand over the stencil in the frame. This forced the ink through the holes in the stencil to and made a copy of the stencil on the paper [/size]
6. The upper frame was raised, the printed paper removed and another blank sheet was put into place. The whole process was repeated until enough copies were made.[/size]

Gestetner’s invention developed further in 1894, with a stencil that could be placed on a screen on a revolving drum. The drum was manually rotated, the stencil then wrapped around another drum and was fed between cloth-covered rollers on which ink was evenly spread. Each revolution of the drum forced ink through the holes in the stencil and transferred the ink onto paper that had been fed between rollers and pressed against the drum. The process was repeated for each page. The paper was still fed and removed manually in this earlier invention but became more automatic in later models. In 1902 Gestetner duplicator model 6 was put onto the market. This model included the improvement of an automatic paper feed that synchronised with the rotation of the stencil. [/size]

The Gestetner machine was the first office printing machine. It was easily installed and it made exact copies of the sane document quickly, effectively and inexpensively. This changed the way offices operated, making information easily available to many more users. The machines were commonly used in small businesses, schools, churches, clubs and other organisations for the wide distribution of a wide variety of information in the form of worksheets, newsletters and more. [/size]

In 1906 the Gestetner Works were opened in Tottenham Hale, North London, and thousands of people were employed there up until the 1970’s. Due to the fast growing success of the Gestetner Duplicator machines many international branches for sales and service centres were established. David Gestetner was succeeded by his son Sigmund, followed by his grandson’s David and Jonathan. [/size]

Further advancement was made by using a manual typewriter with specifically designed stencils. The end product was a printed, typewritten copy similar to the print from newspapers and booklets. In the next few years there were further developments of this revolutionary invention. [/size]

The Gestetner Cyclostyle duplicator in our Collection is dated c.1922 - 1929 and it uses Gestetner Durotype stencils The 1922 British Industries Fair’s catalogue contained advertising for the Gestetner Rotary Cyclostyle “The World’s Premier Duplicator”, demonstrated at Stand K 86.” A Notice at the foot of the advertisement’s page boasts "Important - D Gestetner's latest invention, the "Durotype" Stencil, enables you to obtain 10,000 copies from one original if desired. It contains no wax of any description, is indestructible, can be stored indefinitely and printed from as required” [/size]

In 1929 the look of the Gestetner machines changed; American designer Raymond Loewy was invited by Gestetner to improve the look of his duplicators, resulting in a very streamlined appearance. Eventually, around 1960’s, offices replaced their Gestetner with small photocopying machines and printers.[/size]

Gestetner took over ownership of other office machine companies over time, including Nashua, Rex Rotary, Hanimex and Savin and eventually all came under the holding company name of NRG (Nashuatech, Rex Rotary and Gestetner). In 1996 Ricoh acquired the Gestetner Company, and it was renamed the NRG Group. [/size]

[BaronWulfraed]

Sure looks like a spirit copier to me... Note the tank for the alcohol solution.

Edited November 18, 2018 by BaronWulfraed

[welch]

The school device was a Ditto machine. Made very short runs of a page. The mimeograph printed black and allowed more pages.

 

I still have a ditto from the DC Public School system telling when I would start kindergarten. The page has lasted, somehow, and the purple-blue signature is a bright as ever. That's a fountain pen signature...way back in the olden dayes when people avoided the expensive and unreliable invention called "the ballpoint".

[amberleadavis]

@Baron, and Welch, you both appear to be right. I agree that Mimeo is a genericized term.

Here is info from Wikipedia.

 

 

The word mimeograph was first used by Albert Blake Dick^[8] when he licensed Edison's patents in 1887.^[9]

 

Dick received Trademark Registration no. 0356815 for the term "Mimeograph" in the US Patent Office. It is currently listed as a dead entry, but shows the A.B. Dick Company of Chicago as the owner of the name.

Over time, the term became generic and is now an example of a genericized trademark.^[10] ("Roneograph," also "Roneo machine," was another trademark used for mimeograph machines, the name being a contraction of Rotary Neostyle.)

 

Contemporary use

...

...

 

Gestetner, Risograph, and other companies still make and sell highly automated mimeograph-like machines that are externally similar to photocopiers. The modern version of a mimeograph, called a digital duplicator, or copyprinter, contains a scanner, a thermal head for stencil cutting, and a large roll of stencil material entirely inside the unit. The stencil material consists of a very thin polymer film laminated to a long-fibre non-woven tissue. It makes the stencils and mounts and unmounts them from the print drum automatically, making it almost as easy to operate as a photocopier. The Risograph is the best known of these machines.

Although mimeographs remain more economical and energy-efficient in mid-range quantities, easier-to-use photocopying and offset printing have replaced mimeography almost entirely in developed countries. Mimeograph machines continue to be used in developing countries because it is a simple, cheap, and robust technology. Many mimeographs can be hand-cranked, requiring no electricity.

 

 

Uses and art

...

...

 

 

Mimeographs and the closely related but distinctly different spirit duplicator process were both used extensively in schools to copy homework assignments and tests. They were also commonly used for low-budget amateur publishing, including club newsletters and church bulletins. They were especially popular with science fiction fans, who used them extensively in the production of fanzines in the middle 20th century, before photocopying became inexpensive.

Letters and typographical symbols were sometimes used to create illustrations, in a precursor to ASCII art. Because changing ink color in a mimeograph could be a laborious process, involving extensively cleaning the machine or, on newer models, replacing the drum or rollers, and then running the paper through the machine a second time, some fanzine publishers experimented with techniques for painting several colors on the pad, notably Shelby Vick, who created a kind of plaid "Vicolor".

Spirit Duplicator was the DITTO.

A spirit duplicator (also referred to as a Ditto machine in North America, Banda machine in the UK or Roneo in Australia, France and South Africa) is a printing method invented in 1923 by Wilhelm Ritzerfeld and was commonly used for much of the rest of the 20th century. The term "spirit duplicator" refers to the alcohols that were a major component of the solvents used as "inks" in these machines.^[1][2][3] The device coexisted alongside the mimeograph.

[inkstainedruth]

All this talk of "ditto" is making me think of the great scene from the movie Ghost:

 

Sam: Tell her I love her:

Oda-Mae: Sam says he loves you.

Molly: Sam would never say that....

Sam: Tell her DITTO!!

Oda-Mae: Ditto? What the hell is ditto?!

 

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[amberleadavis]

OH YEAH, that's funny.

[BaronWulfraed]

  On 5/17/2019 at 7:58 PM, amberleadavis said:

A spirit duplicator (also referred to as a Ditto machine in North America, Banda machine in the UK or Roneo in Australia, France and South Africa) is a printing method invented in 1923 by Wilhelm Ritzerfeld and was commonly used for much of the rest of the 20th century. The term "spirit duplicator" refers to the alcohols that were a major component of the solvents used as "inks" in these machines.^[1][2][3] The device coexisted alongside the mimeograph.

 

Good thing they put "inks" in quotes... The actual "ink" (colorant) was the waxy material transferred to the underside of the master (a light-fingered typist was not good for this, and if an electric typewriter was used, it tended to be adjusted for the heavier impact). Imagine carbon paper made using a layer of waxy Crayola crayon, and used upside-down (instead of making a second copy, the "copy" was backwards under the original paper). The alcohol dampened the blank paper which was then pressed against the master, transferring a thin layer of color (and over time, flattening/spreading the wax on the master -- hopefully one only needed enough copies for a single class or two).

 

Mimeographs, in contrast, relied upon the typing transferring the wax (used as a resist) from a "fabric" to a disposable backer. Making copies was then similar to silk screen, where a thick ink was pressed through the master against blank paper. The wax prevented the ink from going through any where else. Mimeograph stencils didn't degrade as much, and might be archived for reuse.

Edited May 18, 2019 by BaronWulfraed

[ParkerDuofold]

  On 5/17/2019 at 9:46 PM, inkstainedruth said:

All this talk of "ditto" is making me think of the great scene from the movie Ghost:

 

Sam: Tell her I love her:

Oda-Mae: Sam says he loves you.

Molly: Sam would never say that....

Sam: Tell her DITTO!!

Oda-Mae: Ditto? What the hell is ditto?!

 

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

Hi all,

 

If you ever see the movie, Teachers... there is a character in the movie known as "Ditto"...

 

https://youtu.be/WbukBnn1ppk

 

 

As a side note... Rush Limbaugh refers to his listeners as "Dittoheads"... which I never particularly cared for...

 

 

Be well all.

 

 

- Anthony

 

 

Typo

Edited May 18, 2019 by ParkerDuofold