Pilot 845 In Vermilion Urushi

[JohnD5633]

Love the color.

[ethernautrix]

Gorgeous photos of gorgeous pens, jar. Seems that you have sortv migrated from your Duponts and other European brands to the Japanese brands. Or are you collecting/using both?

 

 

I found that once I realized how much I preferred Nakayas, I lost interest in most brands, excepting for a model here and there. And then... how did I find out about the Pilot PO nib? Probably through the gateway crack of the Pilot Falcon someone brought to Pen Posse (that I bought and gave to a good friend before realizing, noooooo, I want that one! and had to order another one). These fountain pen forums -- they're a blessing... and a curse. (But mostly a blessing.)

[jar]

Gorgeous photos of gorgeous pens, jar. Seems that you have sortv migrated from your Duponts and other European brands to the Japanese brands. Or are you collecting/using both?

 

 

I found that once I realized how much I preferred Nakayas, I lost interest in most brands, excepting for a model here and there. And then... how did I find out about the Pilot PO nib? Probably through the gateway crack of the Pilot Falcon someone brought to Pen Posse (that I bought and gave to a good friend before realizing, noooooo, I want that one! and had to order another one). These fountain pen forums -- they're a blessing... and a curse. (But mostly a blessing.)

I'm at that point in life were I am down sizing and sending many of my pens off to new homes. So far none of the ST Duponts have gone walk about, or Yard-o-Leds or Aurora but some Waterman, Sheaffer (no Legacies yet), Parker, Montegrappa and Conway Stewarts have moved on to knew homes. Most of my modern Montblancs and Pelikans have hit the road Jack and don't you come back no more no more.

 

The Japanese pens are interesting but I've been kinda accumulating them for over a quarter century so it's not really so much a migration as the fact that I have already reviewed most of the significant European and American pens I have but had not reviewed the Asian ones.

 

AbE: Actually I did sell a few of my ST Dupont Montparnasse pens not all that long ago. Short term memory seems to have ... something or the other.

Edited February 8, 2017 by jar

[Tinjapan]

You and I have the same pen. While I was dissapointed to learn, after purchasing, that the end caps and section are plastic, it is one of my favorite pens.

 

Mine is not exceptionally wet as your's is. A sales clerk at a very large and famous store selling FPs in Japan told that Pilot pens are known to not perform well with ink other than Pilot ink. I use Pilot Blue-Black and have not had the flow problems you have.

 

As you yourself point out, not a fair comparison pens of a much higher price range. I agree with your statement that it is a good value. Actually, I feel it is a great value.

 

On the Urushi. The Urushi finish of the pens you compare with this pen is produced using at least three different Urushis, two different colors topped with clear urushi. This technique gives it the depth you refer to.

 

The Tokyo Pen Shop Quill Vermilion urushi is of one color with possibly a clear coat much like all the othe red laquerware in my house. There are many laquerware items using black over red, such as some of you other pens have, but I don not recall any traditional items that were meant to start off red being different from the finish of this pen. Items with the black over red are designed to show more red as the black wears away with use and age.

 

There are many different urushi finishes, many I like, a few I am not all the interested in. But they are differences in style or technique, not necessarlly quality.

 

Still, I find your review very good, especially with your later comments taken into consideration. My remarks above are based upon my love of this pen and my LE Maruzen 845 of similar finish just different colors. Additionally, in the spirit of full disclosure, the style of urushi of your other pens is one of the styles I am personally not all that fond of. To each their own. But I do acknowledge the quality of that kind of finish.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Tinjapan

[jar]

 

On the Urushi. The Urushi finish of the pens you compare with this pen is produced using at least three different Urushis, two different colors topped with clear urushi. This technique gives it the depth you refer to.

 

 

Actually I also compare it to my urushi pens that are single toned not two different colors. It is simply flat with no depth. I also have an 845 that is black and while it has greatter depth than the vermilion did, it still does not have the depth fount on the Kikyo Nakayas or Kuro Izumo or my Danitrios.

 

It's not bad but it is lifeless.

[Tinjapan]

Actually I also compare it to my urushi pens that are single toned not two different colors. It is simply flat with no depth. I also have an 845 that is black and while it has greatter depth than the vermilion did, it still does not have the depth fount on the Kikyo Nakayas or Kuro Izumo or my Danitrios.

 

It's not bad but it is lifeless.

Ah, that does change things but perhaps simplifies things. Of all the Urushiware I have, from dessert forks and knives, to sake cups to coffee cups, plates, bowls and even my kendo armour, the only solid colored Urushi that I have or have seen that has great depth, is black. Well done black Urushi is like staring into perfectly clear water in a bottomless, perfectly black vessel, beautiful, as you know. I just have never seen this depth in red, nor any other solid color.

 

Do you have, or have you seen this depth in nonblack, solid colored Urushi?

 

I wonder, I have no idea, just wondering, if the style of Urushi you like was made so as to give depth to red or reddish Urushi.

 

Love your other pens too, BTW.

[jar]

Ah, that does change things but perhaps simplifies things. Of all the Urushiware I have, from dessert forks and knives, to sake cups to coffee cups, plates, bowls and even my kendo armour, the only solid colored Urushi that I have or have seen that has great depth, is black. Well done black Urushi is like staring into perfectly clear water in a bottomless, perfectly black vessel, beautiful, as you know. I just have never seen this depth in red, nor any other solid color.

 

Do you have, or have you seen this depth in nonblack, solid colored Urushi?

 

I wonder, I have no idea, just wondering, if the style of Urushi you like was made so as to give depth to red or reddish Urushi.

 

Love your other pens too, BTW.

I think I even posted some examples; not red but blue and black. But I have seen red examples from Nakaya as well as Danitrio.

 

Look at the two blue Nakayas.

 

 

http://www.fototime.com/D2E22AB3281E5E4/large.jpg

 

 

and this Kuro Izumo.

 

 

http://www.fototime.com/5B5EC213BC0EAA6/medium800.jpg

 

 

and the black on this Danitrio.

 

 

http://www.fototime.com/BC3596068B7BBED/medium800.jpg

 

 

and this one.

 

 

http://www.fototime.com/504311FF8A2455C/medium800.jpg

 

 

and this Sailor.

 

 

http://www.fototime.com/BAE8FC8D1B20483/medium800.jpg

 

 

The Pilot Custom 845 is presented as Pilot's flagship pen and it comes really close. I simply wish they had taken those last few steps that would have made it truly a flagship worthy item.

 

[Tinjapan]

Do the blues have greater depth than the vermilion? The ones I've seen in person do not, not less but not more either.. Perhaps, the one I have has a greater depth than yours while not having as great of depth as the black urushi I have. Possible as it is a by hand process. Possible two that the other solid colored urushi I have seen lacks the depth that yours has for the same reasons.

 

How would you rate the price of Pilot's flagship pen with the flagship pens of other makers?

[Tinjapan]

I am also wondering if the regular flagship pens of Sailor and platnum come in urushi over ebonite?

[guyinkits]

I don't typically like a full solid red pen but his one is classy. I like.

[Tinjapan]

Jar,

 

Forgive me, I am not wanting to argue but something about the review didn't sit right with me. I think I figured out just want it was. It seems that Pilot is being faulted for having plastic end caps and section on its flagship pen. But Sailor's flagship pen, the KOP is all plastic and costs ¥10,000 more. Platinum's flagship pen is reported to be the President, which, while a lot less expensive, is smaller and also all plastic. If we compare the newer Kuro Izumo the 845 Vermilion, it too is more expensive, ¥5000 more, and given its design, has fewer parts to fashion.

 

I guess I just feel that the 845 vermilion is being compared to pens of a class higher than itself with the expected results. As it is one of my treasured pens, permit me to come to its defense.

 

Back to the urushi. As I thought about it over lunch, I realized that I am very picky about the finish of my laquerware just as I am with the grain of wooden items I purchase. I was fortunate enough to be able to choose which pen I wanted from all on hand at the store. You may have got one I passed over! Regardless, that could easily account for why I do not find mine as lifeless as you find yours.

 

Another reason just may be that our personal tastes differ. Although I do appreciate more elaborate makie, for my own items I tend to prefer all black urushi with just a makie kamon, or a couple pine needles, or a single maple leaf or single cherry blossom with one petal floating off somewhere. I love pure black or red urushi, prefering it over makie.

[jar]

Jar,

 

Forgive me, I am not wanting to argue but something about the review didn't sit right with me. I think I figured out just want it was. It seems that Pilot is being faulted for having plastic end caps and section on its flagship pen. But Sailor's flagship pen, the KOP is all plastic and costs ¥10,000 more. Platinum's flagship pen is reported to be the President, which, while a lot less expensive, is smaller and also all plastic. If we compare the newer Kuro Izumo the 845 Vermilion, it too is more expensive, ¥5000 more, and given its design, has fewer parts to fashion.

 

I guess I just feel that the 845 vermilion is being compared to pens of a class higher than itself with the expected results. As it is one of my treasured pens, permit me to come to its defense.

 

Back to the urushi. As I thought about it over lunch, I realized that I am very picky about the finish of my laquerware just as I am with the grain of wooden items I purchase. I was fortunate enough to be able to choose which pen I wanted from all on hand at the store. You may have got one I passed over! Regardless, that could easily account for why I do not find mine as lifeless as you find yours.

 

Another reason just may be that our personal tastes differ. Although I do appreciate more elaborate makie, for my own items I tend to prefer all black urushi with just a makie kamon, or a couple pine needles, or a single maple leaf or single cherry blossom with one petal floating off somewhere. I love pure black or red urushi, prefering it over makie.

There is absolutely no question that all reviews are subjective, they are based on personal experience and bias. But as I pointed out in one of my other epistles on pens this is an area where I've been dabbling for some decades and with samples from various Japanese and European makers. In fact my first experiences with urushi was through ST Dupont and their Laque de Chine.

 

Not being in Japan or Taiwan or China or other places where lacquerware is commonly produced and not having a real brick & mortar fountain pen store (there are a couple high end jewelry stores but their knowledge and selection of pens is limited) within a few hundred miles I don't often get to pick and choose.

 

That does not mean that my sample size is really tiny. In ST Dupont alone I probably have several dozen examples of urushi finished pens in a wide variety of colors. My sample size in 845s though is small, very small; only two pieces. But I have other Pilot and Namiki Urushi finished pens with maki-e decoration and they were over plastic and brass bases.

 

Just yesterday I began a second review series where I compare the black 845 to the Sailor King of Pen Pro Gear which like many you mention is also plastic. Unfortunately even the plastic KoP has greater depth than the urushi coated 845.

 

 

http://www.fototime.com/E6A03459940A211/medium800.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/BE13DD0966E6252/medium800.jpg

 

 

Please don't think I am disparaging the 845, it is a good pen. It is Pilot itself that I disparage. If they took the effort to get rid of the seams on the section, were more consistent in tuning the nibs (a problem I see across the Pilot/Namiki lines) and made the urushi just a little deeper, with a little more life it would become a GREAT pen.

 

AbE: Jess for fun some red & black ST Dupont Laque de Chine pics.

 

http://www.fototime.com/17EB5D5303D7517/medium800.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/5EC3B6AABA16B6B/large.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/26230BEDAEEC18B/medium800.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/65CF56A4BF4429D/medium800.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/61F921D373BE791/medium800.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/3670465CC6AF3DE/medium800.jpg

Edited February 10, 2017 by jar

[nekomuffchu]

My 845 Vermilion is a hard starter which needs to be looked at, other than this quibble I'm very pleased with the pen and the urushi finish. Mine has light seams in the section and that's the only thing IMO to be improved.

 

The other Pilots I'd like to have in my collection are the Pilot Capless Raden Water Stripe and the Namiki Yukari Royale (No.20) in black urushi. Does anyone know if the Capless Raden is also coated in Urushi before the abalone is applied?

Edited February 10, 2017 by nekomuffchu

[Tinjapan]

Wow, I have never seen any plastic with the depth of the urushi of my 845s.

 

I have one S.T. Dupont with black laquer. Very smooth nib and excellent finish, until it is uncapped. The section has discolored blotches, which is why I was able to get it a such a very low price.

 

I do agree that molding seems on the section is a bad point. On mine, I had to look at them with a loop to notice, but they are there.

[Tinjapan]

My 845 Vermilion is a hard starter which needs to be looked at, other than this quibble I'm very pleased with the pen and the urushi finish. Mine has light seams in the section and that's the only thing IMO to be improved.

 

The other Pilots I'd like to have in my collection are the Pilot Capless Raden Water Stripe and the Namiki Yukari Royale (No.20) in black urushi. Does anyone know if the Capless Raden is also coated in Urushi before the abalone is applied?

I think that normally base coat/s of urushi are applied before anything is set in it. Then layer after layer of urushi is applied until what ever is set in the urushi is covered. Polishing revels what ever ornamentation was added. I am not sure if this process is followed with pens or not.

[zchen]

I am also wondering if the regular flagship pens of Sailor and platnum come in urushi over ebonite?

 

KOP has a Black Ebonite version (well technically 2 I guess, the original version that had gold trim rings that was discontinued and the current production that just have clip but no trim rings), and there are Urushi versions that cost double the price of the regular KOPs that are not part of the regular line up(photo of the Urushi line up I took at 2015 LA penshow). I don't think I've seen an Urushi President from Platinum though.

 

As for Custom 845, I don't know, I mean I kind of both agree with you and Jar. I feel like the Black Urushi of the 845 is better but I'm struggling to find words to describe why I feel that way. I don't mind the plastic section, but I do mind the fact Pilot couldn't be bothered with polishing away the seam on a 50000 yen retail pen, and yet I still ended up with 2 of the black 845s

Edited February 10, 2017 by zchen

[FriendAmos]

My 845 Vermilion is a hard starter which needs to be looked at, ot

 

Have you tried a piston convertor in place of the CON 70?

[zaddick]

Platinum has the Izumo as thr top of thr line, urushi over ebonite. There are also maki-e pens from platinum.

[Tinjapan]

Platinum has the Izumo as thr top of thr line, urushi over ebonite. There are also maki-e pens from platinum.

Platinum's Izumo is indeed their top of the line, but not sure it is their flagship pen. However, while it is more expensive than the 845, it is not overly so. I di want one of these but as it was pointed out to me, I can get a standard Nakaya for the same price, at the time of the discussion, now for a bit more now. So, I have decided to go for the Nakaya.

 

Yes, they do have these in makie, but at much higher prices.

 

The 845 is not Pilot's top of the line. Not sure if that would be the new Urushi or another, but not the 845.

[Tinjapan]

KOP has a Black Ebonite version (well technically 2 I guess, the original version that had gold trim rings that was discontinued and the current production that just have clip but no trim rings), and there are Urushi versions that cost double the price of the regular KOPs that are not part of the regular line up(photo of the Urushi line up I took at 2015 LA penshow). I don't think I've seen an Urushi President from Platinum though.

 

As for Custom 845, I don't know, I mean I kind of both agree with you and Jar. I feel like the Black Urushi of the 845 is better but I'm struggling to find words to describe why I feel that way. I don't mind the plastic section, but I do mind the fact Pilot couldn't be bothered with polishing away the seam on a 50000 yen retail pen, and yet I still ended up with 2 of the black 845s

I have never been able to describe urushi to one who has never experienced urushi. Hard to put it into words.

 

The seem is there, but not easy to see, as it can be on pans by other makers. Still, it would be nice for a pen at this price to have it polished out.