Thoughts On The Carbon V, A Kickstarter Insight.

[VENVSTAS]

Thoughts On The Carbon V, A Kickstarter Insight.

 

 

Usually Im posting here pictures of pens, using this platform to make users, clients whoever to notice what Im doing. I have written a lot on who am I and what do I do by the time of the kickstarter campaign, which to date has been a commercial failure (although a successful campaign) and a financial problem for me.

 

Kickstarter is full of things, good things, bad things, but they all have something in common, attractive prices sometimes and originality. Without this there's no kickstarter. What's the point? Kickstarter is to start something, and that's great, and in the way it may be a success it may be a failure. Most campaigns do get found, but most projects don't see the next phase, which is the company, where you get clients from somewhere else.

Most brands, or people behind the brands in kickstarter should not make more than one or two campaigns, and this is because the risk is to become very quickly a “kickstarter brand” and be in a comfort zone, where the community works as a close market and you know you'll make some buck. Moreover I can say that many of the pens in kickstarter are made by the same company in china. I know this because they contacted me after the campaign to make a metal pen for them. This is fine, as you can say that Jowo/Schmidt/Bock are making all of the nibs out there, and most of the nibs of all the medium/small sized pen brands in the west, but the point is, that one thing is to make a product, another to start a brand and a workshop that produces a good.

I have nothing against producing in china. I still remember when products coming from china where of poor quality and a copy of some other things made in the west or in Japan. And if you go even further back, that is how japan started. Today your iphone “designed in california” is chinese, and you don't mind. Soon you in the future you won't even mind that's designed in china, as I had countless of chinese students, and they will do what I have taught to them, and that's good. You dont think about it. But yes Im against low prices, slave workmanship pollution and I wonder how much suffer is behind each of those products we buy for little prices, at least little for the retailer, not you, and thinking that if you get them for such low prices, what is actually the cost of them? Close to nothing. Even the iphone gets a price multiplied many times until it gets to your hand. I live in europe and I want to produce in europe. Its difficult, but not impossible. Part of the big crisis we're facing is that we have a part of the world producing and another just consuming and living at expenses of a cut, and at the end, its going to be a disaster as there's no balance.

 

When I got to kickstarter I knew from before that I wanted to make design objects that were different, and being different in this world is risky. To summarize I combined my design capabilities (I'm an architect, designer, musician and painter and former professor of architecture and design) to make a fountain pen I would like to use, as to what I find on the market, nothing I really like.

I wanted a pen in a modern material with a decent nib and lightweight. I wanted a pen that would have a design that reflects my thoughts. The rest is a difficult path of scaling that up not with difficulties, new materials, combinations of materials, new filling mechanisms, notebooks, an ink that won't destroy my pens and dries quickly, pencils in the fashion I want and so on.

 

I'm still changing and delivering some of this Carbon V pens!, where you may find very early models that I have been changing in reviews here and there, which are terrible. Therefore the delay with this pen. Making an almost all carbon fiber pen, and not just a metallic pen with some carbon fiber parts is not an easy job. Moreover, working with it is unhealthy and dangerous, and tolerances are very difficult to manage. I can say now that I fully understand the material and I can make things with no problem, but that took over a year of essay and trial.

 

I think there's room for these pens on the market. A market where I can find a pattern of 3 basic pens, spanning countless small, medium big brands from anywhere on the world. Where nobody wants to risk anything in terms of a new design, where coping the lamy safari by 10 in china is just good. I was contacted by one of these chinese makers once, to make a design for them. I thought that's better to work for them than rather being just copied, well, after sending the bill, I never had any answer, nor the money from them to just discover that they decided to just make yet another lamy safari clone........How many reviews are out there of these chinese copies? Would you buy a clone of an iphone? Anyway, I have been looking and looking pen reviews on modern fountain pens to always get the veteran lamy 2000 as a result. Its fine, even I have one of those, but is 50 years old. A lot in design has happened since, and although fountain pens are a lot about nostalgia, in design, a chair is still a chair, a car still goes on the same basic principles since it's invention, so, why not a pen? I have explored this subject in all my designs and work as an architect, and Im just writing this after some things I have found of a thing that was not perfect but its on the way. I have thought many times in finishing the carbon V, and just quite, but I think its a good design, at least fresh, and as somebody pointed out here in an old review in the FPN, the carbon V could be an iconic design, well, its just a pen, but in a way, its more than that, it reflects a way of thinking, mine, that in the current circumstances seems to be against something I quite don't get.

 

 

Best wishes,

 

Lucio Rossi
http://www.venvstas.com

 

[bobje]

Lucio,

Fascinating insight from an industry insider. I had no idea there were just 'kickstarter' brands. Many new pen brands base their 'story' or differentiation on geography. Pens with colors and themes from a region of Italy or the American South or Hawaii. Some use historical or nostalgic references. It sounds like your company projects forward, with the emphasis on a completely new and as-yet-unseen design. Is this correct? How do you choose elements that will resonate with the needs of people today, and capture new references rooted in this period of the 2010s? Is that a consideration?

[VENVSTAS]

Lucio,

Fascinating insight from an industry insider. I had no idea there were just 'kickstarter' brands. Many new pen brands base their 'story' or differentiation on geography. Pens with colors and themes from a region of Italy or the American South or Hawaii. Some use historical or nostalgic references. It sounds like your company projects forward, with the emphasis on a completely new and as-yet-unseen design. Is this correct? How do you choose elements that will resonate with the needs of people today, and capture new references rooted in this period of the 2010s? Is that a consideration?

Well Bobje, As we all know, László József Bíró knocked out the fountain pen world more than half a century ago. A fountain pen won't ever be more efficient than a ballpoint. But, there's something about them that has a parallel with the watch industry when quartz watches almost finished the mechanical ones in the mid to late 70s. Is going to be a full mechanical super expensive watch any better than the cheapest of the quartz ones? no, a quartz watch is :more accurate no matter what. And today you look on the cell phone, which is more accurate, and also gives a lot of more information than a watch. I use mechanical watches, and still check if the time is ok with my phone!

 

But it seems we like to pay the extra money for the time of the maker, the effort and the expertise in making them. So happened with the fountain pens, and I still think that the quality of lines, the strokes of a nib cannot be matched still by any other utensil. As an architect I use this things for drawing mainly, therefore is why my early designs are often streamlined pens. I've seen my colleagues trying to draw with a fat montblanc and I only know one that is able to handle them. Pencils are thin. Recently I have tried to adapt myself to the taste of bulkier pens, and see how can be achieved a good mixture of materials, designs and building techniques. Im working currently in such a pen, from where I have two prototypes, one Saturne the other Europa a 2.0ml piston pen and a cc pen respectively. and I'll see how people react to them. I'll post some pictures of the prototypes that are a synthesis of what I think today is, a mixture of a everyday pen, but also a none practical object to some extent, as non practical would be a mechanical watch. Still mechanical watches market and designers are booming, and I think that this tells a lot on what is the situation in this century, nice objects, well designed with materials that are pleasant and resistant. We're facing also the transition from the paper to the electronic media, I don't remember when was the last time I wrote a letter but I have clients sending me postcards and letters, which reflects the time that someone spends in doing something, and I think that answers the question in a way, we're buying and selling time, and we transfer our care to somebody by giving time, even if that is only to wait for a pen, or to take a moment in writing a postcard with purple ink, instead of putting a like on facebook.

 

[bobje]

Sounds like a rethinking of the fountain pen as a tool for the human hand. Looking forward to seeing these!

[IndianElf]

Venvstas. Have you considered sending one of your pens to any YouTube reviewers? Extraordinary pens by the way.

[VENVSTAS]

Sounds like a rethinking of the fountain pen as a tool for the human hand. Looking forward to seeing these!

 

Thank you, I was thinking a lot on this, and I just started doing the designs i would like for myself, as, I have never been a pen collector or a pen enthusiast but someone who needed pens for designing with better nibs from to what you get in some very popular fountain pens and also more ink capacity. many big pens are coming nowadays with big feeds and bodies and only a small ink cartridge, with goes too quickly, also I dont like thi thing of throwing a way a piece of plastic that just contains a few, really, a few, drops of ink. But on the making, I see small/medium makers, that although I dont think I share any point in contact with their design philosophy or are coming from different backgrounds than I do, I guess yes there's a lot to share in terms on where to go with this things and the like for doing what you like. Not to be looking on what the public wants, as I think that is just what makes to have, lets say, horrible cars, ugly phones, things that are more of a sort of "I know what people wants" than rather, lets do what you like and maybe somebody will like it too. But thats the difference between small companies and corporations.

[VENVSTAS]

Venvstas. Have you considered sending one of your pens to any YouTube reviewers? Extraordinary pens by the way.

Hi, my name is Lucio, venvstas comes from firmitas/vtilitas/venvstas, long to explain if you don't know, but in japan makes no sense. The japanese have their own tradition in architecture, from where I can talk and write for hours as it has deeply inspired my work, from houses, to projects, furniture, and pens....but going to your question, the answer is yes and no. but that eventually happens as you start to have things out there. You can see people reviewing in utube from a 250.000 euro supercar to 3 euro fountain pen. Honestly I don't think anybody will look on a review of a 3 euro fountain pen or a notebook and who cares, specially supermarket-like stuff, but seems people like to review and talk about whatever, just to feel they are useful in some way, so your things are becoming their excuse for having something to do in a very boring sunday afternoon while cleaning a hamster cage and aligning plastic katanas. Therefore, a pen review is born. Yet another. How many reviews of a lamy safari or a 2000 are in internet? Do you need yet one more?, You can go to any shop and just try it out! Therefore, there's a lot of content written and filmed out there that is just again, the excuse to do something that very boring day......its just sad. But, even here in the FPN there are some reviews of my things, for instance in one the owner of the pen said "I wish the section were longer for having more room for my fingers" or something like that, meaning that the guy was holding wrongly the pen, I've studied calligraphy so I know what Im talking about, and I know how to properly hold a pen, as what people think is the section actually is the nib case, anyway, what I mean, in some cases things are totally subjective but even so all I can say is that this type of reviewing/buying and selling is going to be more and more common in the future as physical shops are becoming vitrines for products that then you're buying online for a 10 to 20 or even more % off. So Im working in a utube channel where you'll be able to see with High def, a proper camera, good light how the products work, and then is your choice if you wanna a second opinion from a reviewer, plus, once the pen is shipped and it arrives, if you don't like it you can send it back, get your yens and therefore you have your own opinion as that is what really matters. i dont see any other alternative as pen shops are closing one after the other. If you want a fountain pen or a 2mm pencil in some cities in the world you'll have a hard time in finding what you like, therefore your option is only to direct to makers small/medium, big who are selling directly to the public or online retailers. Very sad.

[Pickwick]

As you are from Paris, have you explored the art and design fairs, venues and exhibitions? The biggest difficulty you are at present facing is the over saturation of advertising on the internet, which in a lot of cases hampers any newcomer getting enough exposure. As has been suggested you might research reviewers who have very active sites discussing new design innovations and offering one of your pens,. Are you able to monitor the number of visitors to your site?

 

I do like your Avant Garde design, and the others are innovative. You might give some thought with regard to details with your advertising as to how the filling mechanism actually works on the Avant Garde. The opening at the top of the barrel is very reminiscent of the sleeve filers made during the first two decades of the last century, which I am sure with yours is not the case.

 

I have no doubt you have been following reviews of your marques as I have and taking note of their observations.

[OmegaMountain]

Kickstarter seems to promote product saturation in some categories. Watches and pens being the most common. I see dozens or hundreds of watch projects on there which are so very repetitive now. It's people designing a watch with the same two or three movements with the case and it's components all churned out in China. I started to back a couple and pulled out because they weren't unique or quality enough to keep me interested. I would love to see a project for a new independently designed and built movement. The same with pens. Innovation in nibs or fill design would sell me. Or, as you're aiming for, an innovative design for better ergonomics, etc. If you can create a unique design with great appeal, you will be successful on Kickstarter. I think you then have to take that product and present it to other sellers to expand your marketability. Brands like Franklin-Christoph have figured out that you can also target your segment enthusiasts first by making a quality product in-house and allowing them to spread the word. Interestingly, it seems that things like pens and watches tend to do better with unique takes on classic designs. This is why I think Kickstarter doesn't always translate into an independently viable company. Modern seems to be more difficult to pull off successfully.

Edited November 25, 2016 by OmegaMountain

[Federalist Pens]

Well done Lucio!

 

Remember friends that Carbon T and "Model 77" Pens are available here in the US!

 

Frank

Federalist Pens

[IndianElf]

Hi, Lucio. I wanted to ask you this. The website reads free worldwide shipping. Does that mean there are no additional shopping costs if I buy it from Singapore?

[VENVSTAS]

Hi, Lucio. I wanted to ask you this. The website reads free worldwide shipping. Does that mean there are no additional shopping costs if I buy it from Singapore?

Yes, of course, free shipping to singappore, I have already shipped to, with succes:

 

France of course!

EEUU

All over europe,

China/Hong Kong

India

Japan

Colombia

Mexico

Australia

New Zealand

 

I manage to have very low fees, and if the package does not arrive I'll assume the costs. If you don't like the pen of there's any issue you send it back, the pen is changed or money is given back. The pens have life warranty, so if it brakes in x years lets say that your ink corrodes the o-ring of the pump filler, you send it back to me and I change it for free. Recently a client tried doing a grinding on his nib,and it didn't work and I have replaced the nib for free. So, free shipping means that, free shipping. Thank you for the question !

 

[VENVSTAS]

Kickstarter seems to promote product saturation in some categories. Watches and pens being the most common. I see dozens or hundreds of watch projects on there which are so very repetitive now. It's people designing a watch with the same two or three movements with the case and it's components all churned out in China. I started to back a couple and pulled out because they weren't unique or quality enough to keep me interested. I would love to see a project for a new independently designed and built movement. The same with pens. Innovation in nibs or fill design would sell me. Or, as you're aiming for, an innovative design for better ergonomics, etc. If you can create a unique design with great appeal, you will be successful on Kickstarter. I think you then have to take that product and present it to other sellers to expand your marketability. Brands like Franklin-Christoph have figured out that you can also target your segment enthusiasts first by making a quality product in-house and allowing them to spread the word. Interestingly, it seems that things like pens and watches tend to do better with unique takes on classic designs. This is why I think Kickstarter doesn't always translate into an independently viable company. Modern seems to be more difficult to pull off successfully.

Well, I think you are totally right. I can say that to make a nib is really expensive (like a watch movement which is even more) I don't want to name anybody, but I think everybody here knows that except for waterman/parker, pelikan, lamy, pilot, (romillo hand made) I think aurora, Montblanc, schneider, all the Asiatic pen makers, the rest of the pen makers medium/small are split between Bock and Jowo. I can recognize the nibs on the spot, even those that are what is called the factory within the factory, meaning that if you are selling 5000 pens on one model you can seat with any of them and go into the design of the nib and not accept what they have already for sale, from where you have some options. But looking through kickstarter and indigogo and all the versions of sites of the sort, there are to me 2 diferent categories, one, people pushing for a design, or product or idea, that they want to make it happen and which is original and somehow risky, and others who are just patching up products from all the OEM manufactures that will make for you standard products with a certain level of customization, then you make what's called a private line, and you sell it, and get a cut. So, you are using a crowd founding site as a store, where backers are just consumers, not people helping people....in that case you'll see countless of watches with the same cases, movements, straps, and things saying like "most minimalist watch" "sport watch" 'ultimate design watch" when for many being minimal is just poorly designed and standard, being minimal actually is far beyond that, and means to strip things out to the essential while transmitting a strong design will at the same time.

 

So it is a business nor the vision of somebody to push. You'll see the same Miyota movement, the same glass, size, dial, because its the easiest to do. There are many little Swiss movement makers who are doing amazing creative work, so you don't have to think on an Eta movement when you wanna go for a Swiss watch, the interesting would be to get to work along a movement maker to make an exceptional time piece, but, that requires effort, time, dedication, passion and yes, capacity, its easy to order in hong kong a standard case, make an OEM manufacturer to assemble it fr you, I know all this not only because I like watches, but because the idea I have for my brand is to move on, not do only writing instruments, but to follow a broader scope of design objects, but I would never get just a standard case and put a tic tac inside, its a long run project, and maybe I'll have to wait 5 years until I can put a watch for sale..so far I only some ideas, drawings and very rude prototypes...In that case it would be made in association with somebody who's doing movements....and knows about what I don't know and vice versa.

[VENVSTAS]

Well done Lucio!

 

Remember friends that Carbon T and "Model 77" Pens are available here in the US!

 

Frank

Federalist Pens

You should sell them, they are aging!

[VENVSTAS]

As you are from Paris, have you explored the art and design fairs, venues and exhibitions? The biggest difficulty you are at present facing is the over saturation of advertising on the internet, which in a lot of cases hampers any newcomer getting enough exposure. As has been suggested you might research reviewers who have very active sites discussing new design innovations and offering one of your pens,. Are you able to monitor the number of visitors to your site?

 

I do like your Avant Garde design, and the others are innovative. You might give some thought with regard to details with your advertising as to how the filling mechanism actually works on the Avant Garde. The opening at the top of the barrel is very reminiscent of the sleeve filers made during the first two decades of the last century, which I am sure with yours is not the case.

 

I have no doubt you have been following reviews of your marques as I have and taking note of their observations.

Yes Pickwick you are right, actually Im working on that, But pens are usually regarded as minor objects, so you have to swim against that, yes I can see how much people are entering and from where, as anybody having a website, but as you mention there's still a lack of information n the site and Im working on that as the site got totally re-made, now it looks better, its easier to browse things and the quality of the pictures is professional, Im working right now in bringing hi-def videos so people can see how the filling mechanisms work, its just that Im doing a lot of stuff at the time, I understand the pens are strange looking and more information should be provided for visitors to understand better. The avant garde has many features, from where the filling mechanism is just one, the cap is very interesting as it complements the body.......its more of a toy than a pen!

[StephenBrown]

Venvstas. Have you considered sending one of your pens to any YouTube reviewers? Extraordinary pens by the way.

 

I have reviewed two VENVSTAS pens, between cleaning hamster cages and aligning plastic katanas. You can find a link to the reviews in the index on my website.

Edited November 25, 2016 by StephenBrown

[bobje]

Many people on this discussion thread have dealt with many Kickstarter companies in various stationery categories. The ones that succeed -- what do they do particularly well? For a completely new brand, does staking out a completely different niche seem to be the key? A rigorous approach to an under-served market and tight business plan? A vintage/history approach to a pen as opposed to modern? A focus on ergonomics and the user rather than back-story or theme? Aesthetics and grace of the product design? Material?

[Pickwick]

Many people on this discussion thread have dealt with many Kickstarter companies in various stationery categories. The ones that succeed -- what do they do particularly well? For a completely new brand, does staking out a completely different niche seem to be the key? A rigorous approach to an under-served market and tight business plan? A vintage/history approach to a pen as opposed to modern? A focus on ergonomics and the user rather than back-story or theme? Aesthetics and grace of the product design? Material?

 

Your comments got me thinking with regard to business strategy. Looking at Venvstas Kickstarter site the projected capital requested is very small. I'm not too sure whether the rule of thumb in my generation with starting a company still applies in this electronic driven generation. It was recognized that it usually took 5 years before a new company began to start seeing a return on the initial investment. Therefore sufficient capital is necessary to sustain a project over that period. Anyone willing to Invest in a commercial project will only take a calculated risk, after seeing market research undertaken before doing so to see if there is niche that can successfully be filled.

 

One other problem anyone who is an artist designer faces is trying to manage a business and at the same time designing and making a project singlehandedly to its fruition. I have friends who are very good at what they do, but realize that it never works, and needed someone else to focus on the management and controlling the financial side, therefore freeing themselves up.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Pickwick

[Jamerelbe]

 

I have reviewed two VENVSTAS pens, between cleaning hamster cages and aligning plastic katanas. You can find a link to the reviews in the index on my website.

 

I have watched these two reviews, and read the written review from Ian Hedley at http://penpaperpencil.net/venvstas-carbon-v-fountain-pen-review/ - and I think both reviewers have been relatively kind, considering the visible flaws in the pens they were handling. So you can complain you were hard done by, and take passive-aggressive pot-shots at people who simply pointed out the faults in your workmanship... or you can accept responsibility for making sub-standard pens and get on with trying to fix the problems in your manufacturing process.

 

On a lighter note, let me register my appreciation for Dr Brown - I for one am very grateful that he's been able to find time in between feeding hamsters and wielding katanas (not to mention completing a PhD in cognitive neuroscience, producing academic publications and teaching tertiary-level courses) to produce so many helpful and whimsical YouTube videos...

[VENVSTAS]

 

I have watched these two reviews, and read the written review from Ian Hedley at http://penpaperpencil.net/venvstas-carbon-v-fountain-pen-review/ - and I think both reviewers have been relatively kind, considering the visible flaws in the pens they were handling. So you can complain you were hard done by, and take passive-aggressive pot-shots at people who simply pointed out the faults in your workmanship... or you can accept responsibility for making sub-standard pens and get on with trying to fix the problems in your manufacturing process.

 

On a lighter note, let me register my appreciation for Dr Brown - I for one am very grateful that he's been able to find time in between feeding hamsters and wielding katanas (not to mention completing a PhD in cognitive neuroscience, producing academic publications and teaching tertiary-level courses) to produce so many helpful and whimsical YouTube videos...

 

Well, I dont know your name, that would be nice to know, anyhow, I don't mind really what Mr Brown does between his cleaning duties and academic life, or if he also makes hamster reviews , and I don't see why he feels touched, and its not the reviews nor the reviewer or his reviewing Im discussing, and it's a shame, because I think he quite not understand me and what I said to him, and that is a type of discussion I dont wanna get into,Im putting a lot of effort on this, really, building a network, making new designs, trying to do something new!!!! And improving with each model, In a field where, is there anything really new except a new acrylic plastic? I did not ask to move in a niche, I didn't knew that fountain pens were a hobby to some, maybe you. I had my first pen when I was 8 and was just to write and draw, that thing, that old Parker could do things that kids with their biros couldn't, and that's the magic, and that is what this is all about, our passion for the pens, in my case that goes to design, how to make this things different. If you like them, you can buy them, if you don't just don't do it.

 

I was an academic for some years, Im not an artisan, with all respect to the artisans, but I have a different mind set. I have taught in master and post master courses, design and architecture, and my work is there, in Germany, France, UK and Buenos Aires. I have constructed and made projects in north and south america, europe and china, and my career spans 20 years in architecture and design, and my teachers were true masters on design and architecture, I've been lucky,; but, we are talking pens, not titles, I have also one of those you can inherit, but what do you need them for? the french revolution should've finished that title discussion anyway, I hope; Im happy I dont live in a country with an Argentinean queen, and I was born in argentina.....anyway!

 

In my case Im pulling for a design and a brand that's starting, I'm talking how hard is to make a business and the difference between creating a brand from zero I have been looking at some reviews and others, you can check the following ones here: And with this I dont think there are any other reviews.....whatsoever in internet. I search for them, it helps, always.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnbvNKvV0IY&t=3s

https://fountainpenfollies.com/2016/04/21/pen-review-venvstas-carbon-t-fountain-pen/

https://fountainpenfollies.com/2016/04/29/pen-review-venvstas-77-fountain-pen/

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/307951-venvstas-carbon-v-fountain-pen-review/

and the carbon V had problems, that is why just I'm writing here, to say that the pen had a difficult start, and went through a long way until it got to be any good. Ian's pen and the one that got brown, were very early models, that in the case of Brown's I have changed it to the owner. The pen was scraped. The one from Ian, I have talked to him and it will be changed too, because a problem in the design made the pen not good for certain types of cartridges, and certain type of converters, this the initial model. it could even crack; I have replaced some materials and made variations on the proportions so now the pen accepts whatever cartridge. But again, this is about how hard is to make a brand, and what some people think its easy to do, actually may not. if you are taking care of the client, if you are changing and improving the product, then, what's wrong? send me a personal address and I'll mail ya a pen so you can check what they are.

 

From the reviews Im posting up there, they are all photos except the Supra which is in U-tube, its a different pen and it has a system that allows you to use the converter as the pen were a piston filler, or just take the converter out and place a long or a short cartridge, or take two short cartridges with you. Anyway, just take a look on the site, as it has be re-designed and 'Im investing a lot of time, money and intelligence in bringing up good quality stuff, pictures, videos, designs, filling mechanisms and, well, in any case I think that you don't get in contact many often with somebody starting a pen related business and a designer as well, I'll prefer to talk about pen, talk to people and see how do they react to the designs, its part on knowing who may like or want what you do, as there are enough makers out there, saddly, nobody wants to risk anything and do something new, so I do the pens I would like for myself, and again, if you share my taste, you can buy them.

 

I'll be giving away one of these for Christmas its a very nice pen,, 24k gold plated, just subscribe to my website www.venvstas.com to participate.

thank you for the comment to both.