M200 Cafe Creme

[Oobly]

This is currently the only pen I really want to purchase.. except for one of my "grail" pens, a Doric. I agree that the design is classy and timeless.

 

But I know I'll want a vintage nib and feed for it, too, so the overall cost is over 200 euros currently, which I just can't quite justify.. yet.

 

It's great to have a forum to share with like-minded individuals.

[Calabria]

This is one of the most interesting pens I recently bought. I can't wrap my mind around that whitish color. What does it remind me of? At first I thought old ivory (I dismissed cream or milk out of hand - unless it's vanilla cream). Parchment? Casein? White chocolate? Please help me. The brown is also difficult - I've seen some burgundy in there (in direct sunlight).

 

In the meantime, it's writing incredibly well with a M400 EF nib. I'm getting reacquainted with the size, too...and not regretting the price I paid (close to suggested retail from Tokyo) for the pen, and the additional nib.

[Kevan]

I love mine. Of my 4 Pelikans, it's my favorite. I've put a 1990's era 14k F nib on it, and it is a lovely combo, though at times I wish I had a 2-tone nib to complete the look. The original steel M200 Medium nib it came with had a touch of baby's bottom, which I fixed, but I didn't like how the steel nib would look "dull" after awhile. I got a replacement M200 "F" nib that wrote perfectly, but still I had a nagging feeling that the Cafe Creme needed a gold nib. So the1990's Tortoise lost its nib to the Cafe Creme and the rest is history.

 

I've never understood why some people complain about the seam on the section. Mine is hardly noticeable (I guess I got one of the good ones?), and the quality of the pen is as good as my M400/600. Maybe because the Cafe Creme has more "bling" than a normal M200, it looks just as good as the more expensive Souveran pens? I don't know. Every review I've watched on Youtube says the M200 "looks a bit cheap" because of the injection-molded section...but I guess I can't see what these people are seeing. It's there, but only if you look for it.

 

After 2 years I've gotten used to the size. It's no longer "a bit too small" for me. It's fine. And it always gets compliments from people. People never compliment my pens but they always ask to see the Cafe Creme. Pelikan did a great job with the color scheme.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Kevan

[pajaro]

I think it's a common feeling that the M200 needs a gold nib. I used to think it made them more deluxe. Then I found I liked the fine and extra fine steel Pelikan nibs more than the gold nibs, because they seemed to write a thinner line than the gold nibs. This is a matter of individual taste. The gold nibs look great, but now I prefer to have a correct nib for each pen. Some of the M200 pens could have had a gold nib as an M250. Some didn't come that way. To each his own. Sometimes I prefer to give spare gold nibs a pen instead of a storage tube. So, sometimes the spare gold nibs find a home in an M200.

[Bo Bo Olson]

"""I've put a 1990's era 14k F nib" on it.............if a gold nib then that one in it is = to a 200's nib.

 

If you must put a 'gold' modern nib on a 200/400/600 pen, then the gold plated 200's nib....as expensive as it is, or a '90's gold nib.....they are springy 'true' regular flex nibs with a very good ride. A thinner line and cleaner line, than the fat and blobby modern M400/600's.

 

The gold plating should last decades. As long as you don't rub at it. I have a gold plated '50's 120 school pen in perfect shape. It's inked right now. It is one of my 'lesser' pens, the nib is not compared to today's the least bit lessor.

It is of course lesser than the stub semi-flex nibs of that era, as are the '82-97 era nibs...be they gold or steel. I think the 200 came in @ '86 or so.

 

If you wish a fat blobby characterless semi-nail nib, then the modern M400's nibs is it. A better nib is the steel 200's.

 

I really regret not knowing this back when I bought my 605 on sale for E99 at Galeria Kaufhaus. I could have gotten a yellow 200 on sale for E40 ....but I was a gold snob. I was ignorant to the value of the grand 200's nib.

As almost 'noobie' I didn't realize how rare a yellow pen was, much less how rare a yellow 200 was. There were only two of them made, and one is a $expensive LE.

 

I had then a '90's M400 tortoise, and didn't think I needed a 200. Actually I didn't. Those two nibs were equal.....and being a gold snob 'thought' gold was better than steel. Good steel nibs are as good as good gold nibs.....accent on good.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson

[Kevan]

I don't agree that the 1990's M400 gold nib and the modern 200 steel nib are equal. Not at all. The 14k nib is markedly softer. They're both good nibs but they aren't equal in my opinion. I also wouldn't call the modern 200 nibs flex nibs. They're a bit "springy"...that's as far as I'd go. Flex? Nah...not in my opinion. Not even semi-flex.

 

I don't own a modern M400, just a 1990's one. I own a modern 600 and a modern 800, both of which I disliked after awhile, and both of which had their nibs modified to be more pleasant writers. I agree that they are too blobby. It got to the point where I hated writing with them. They lacked the pleasant tactile feel of my Japanese pens. So they were both stubbed.

 

I'm not a gold snob per se. I agree that good steel writes as well as good gold, in many cases. There are also gold nibs that offer nothing at all in terms of an "upgrade" over steel. One of the BEST nibs I've ever used is the steel one on the new Aurora DuoCart (gold cannot improve that nib AT ALL. It is perfection). I also like my Pendleton Point steel nib on a Conklin, and a regular Platinum steel nibs (which are also a touch soft).

 

If I had a regular black M200, or one of the demonstrator models, I'd probably keep the steel nib on it. I just felt that the Cafe Creme needed more bling to complement its overall look.

[Bo Bo Olson]

I never mentioned superflex....but 'true' regular flex. That was a normal flex for decades....what was issued by many to most pen companies. I call it 'true' regular flex, so folks won't think regular issue of now....semi-nail or nail is the old fashioned regular flex.

 

Some folks coming in from nail and semi-nail actually think 'true' regular flex....semi-flex, in the tines bend and spread! They are not.

 

There are variance in nib flexing....on the whole I find that in superflex and some in maxi-semi-flex.

I do group 'true' regular flex as @ the same, The same as my '90's gold 'true' regular flex Pelikan nibs.

I do have one of an other's brand of semi-flex that shades toward regular flex, and an MB that lays between semi-flex and maxi-semi-flex. The rest of the set tends to group fairly tightly together, the 'true' regular flex with other regular flexes. The semi-flex and the maxi-semi-flex with each other also.

 

In the 3X tine spread vs a light down stroke set are: 'true' regular flex, which when well mashed gives a 3 X line.

Semi-flex requires half that pressure to spread the tines 3 X.

Maxi-semi-flex half of that or 1/4th the pressure needed by a 'true' regular flex to spread it's tines 3X.

I consider that the 3 X tine spread set. The tines should not be pressed further than 3X. I find one would have to be jack hammer handed to always be near 3 X on a springy 'true' regular flex. I just enjoy the springy softer ride, vs nail and semi-nail.

 

I was heavy handed when I got my first semi-flex a 140 OB....after three months my Hand became lighter. After three months with my maxi-semi-flex 400nn OF lighter still.

Don't expect all 400nn's to be maxi. In Pelikan, Geha and other brands I find @ 1 maxi for every 4 semi-flex as luck of the draw..........outside of Osmia, where you can pick semi-flex with a Diamond in the nib or maxi with Supra on the nib.

 

I do know the difference between springy 'true' regular flex, like a 120, or a 150 or a 200, or a Celebry in steel and in gold, or a 381 in gold, or a '82-97 14 K M400; and other flexes. Those were all 'true' regular flex. I did not find the gold nibs to be softer than the steel ones....they are to me =.

I spent a lot of time checking them out.

 

Actually, a couple of respected posters said, the Geha nib is a tad better, easier to spread the tines in semi-flex. Testing Pelikan and Geha of the same era found that to be true. The Geha steel nib was just as good as the gold semi-flex nibs.

I don't have a steel Pelikan semi-flex. The CN nib turned out to be 'only' regular flex, instead of the semi-flex or maxi as expected from all the posts.

 

 

True regular flex is dryer and better for shading, in semi&maxi being wetter often drown the shading, unless there is a very good ink and paper match. Of course semi&maxi are better for line variation.

 

That and many think gold is 'softer' when it is not. They have been told so. Often, by those told by others it was softer. Belief is 90% of the battle.

 

I often wonder if the 'so called' soft Japanese nib is not just a regular flex nib. But no one has answered that. Could be just mushy.

 

I find the 1000 to be semi-flex...not springy. I took a good semi-flex pen with me when I tested that nib in my B&M. It is for me too huge to worry about. And I have a whole slew of semi-flex in light, nimble, more balanced pens.

 

Perhaps I am spoiled when it goes to soft gold nibs....steel ones too.I have great Osmia/O-F-C nibs where the steel = the gold. My Geha steel semi-flex = the gold ones.

As for semi-flex I have 26 and 16 maxi-semi-flex from the '50-65 era...and a few from the 30-40's. Those are all German in the German's of that era specialized in them.

 

Sheaffer had a few semi-flex in the early '50's....had regular flex too, besides nails. Most of the US Parker's after the late '30's were nails. I do have English Parker's that are different. A semi-flex Jr. Doufold and a 'regular' flex P-45. That was because Swan made an assortment of nibs some into superflex. Parker had to add flex to their nibs to compete in England.

Esterbrook made an assortment of nibs from nail to 'almost' semi-flex.....my Wearevers were all regular flex.

 

Up to @ 2005 all Aurora nibs were semi-flex....they now bring out their old semi-flex under modern selling name...stressing "flexi".

At that price, I will chase a vintage 88.

 

Could it be you have a '50's 400 nib on your '90's pen? Which way do the rills/combs go, longitudinal or horizontal?

Edited August 8, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson

[Kevan]

You should chase a vintage Aurora 88...I own one from 1950 that was sold as a "flex nib" (I call it semi-flex personally, not full flex, but your definition might be different). It's my favorite nib out of all that I own. Perfect for my handwriting. That's why I didn't chase the new Aurora flex pen. I didn't think it would equal the bintage 88, or my 88 that another seller advertised as being from 1990 or 1991, with the "long tines" soft nib. It's a good writer but I was disappointed in it, to be honest. It's not as soft as I was expecting when I bought it. But I worked on the nib and I love how it feels in my hand, so I enjoy it when I use it.

[Bo Bo Olson]

A lot of sellers don't know much when selling 'flex' nibs. I prefer the term Superflex, for nibs that spread their tines 4x or mostly 5-6 X and rarely 7 X. Much of the time from the way all the Superflex nibs are spread 7X, I wonder if folks are buying sprung nibs.

Superflex also has to do with ease of tine spread along with tine spread.

 

There is much more variation in Superflex than the other nibs. I use a 1/2 and 1/2 system of flex rating, from 'true' regular flex up. In Superflex it is more a 'noobie's guide than to someone with 4-7 superflex nibbed pens.

There is also a bit more variation in maxi-semi-flex than in semi-flex. ...when I get OCD on that, F-1 F-1/4th and F-1 1/2...my Rupp nib that started the term Maxi-semi-flex, that I invented. If one has an Easy Full Flex nibbed pen, then a maxi, is, even the Rupp a step away from Superflex. I started that F-1---1 1/2 stuff back when I had only 5 maxi's. I have 16 now and don't worry if one is a tad flexier than the other....in it's only a tad. I do not have out of those 16 another nib to match that Rupp nib.

(Every time I saw a neat pen with a Rupp nib, someone else out bid me. So I can not say that all Rupp nibs would be so.....just like I can say @ 1 in 5 is maxi in the Pelikan and Geha pens. I would expect Rupp to have made regular semi-flex.) Rupp was a Heidelberg nib maker from 1922-70, like the Degussa/Osmia or Bock companies, he sold to any.

 

I do strive to stay away from max, unless it's for some few letters. Richard Binder has a great article of how to spring your nib...especially in Supereflex,

 

I strive to stay 1 X under max. Like the 100n below that is a 5 X max, I strive to stay at 4 X. The same with semi/maxi, though they are more robust, there really is not much reason to press hard to a max all the time. Maxing a 'true' regular flex regularly is too hard a work &....to me is foolish....buy a Semi-flex instead.

 

I have a post war 100n, (green ink window. Was shoked to find out the 100n and Ibis were made to @ '54) with a superflex 5 X nib; what I call Easy Full Flex. Which needs half the pressure of a maxi-semi-flex for it's tine max, or 1/8th the pressure needed to mash a 'true' regular flex to 3X. I have 4-5, and some nibs.

 

Wet Noodle half of that or 1/16th what a 'true' regular flex needs to max. I have two, a 7X 52 and a 5-6 X Soennecken.

Weak Kneed Wet Noodle, a term invented by 'Oxnard' here on the com. He's a nib grinder, in he don't like the term nibmeister. John Sawboda(sp). I have none.

 

Mauricio has a great blog on Superflex. He sells superflex nibbed pens, claiming it takes a hell of a lot of fiddling to get the feed and nib matched perfectly to give best results. He charges for that.

So if your superflex is great....don't go yanking the nib out in it might not be the same, unless you fiddle a lot to get it back. If it ain't what you think it should be....and you have a number of hours, you can fiddle.

 

With superflex variation, my 52 starts out Easy Full Flex then in the middle of the flex turns Wet Noodle. My Soennecken is Wet Noodle from the start. The reason I don't have more, is I'd have to learn to write to justify having more. So there is a lot of variance in Superflex.

 

 

'Springy' nibs as a set, The Falcon, modern MP nibs or the great new Lamy Imporium.... .

They have good tine bend, but only 2 X tine spread. The new Lamy is the best of the 'Springy' nibs I have tried.....it is so very close to semi-flex....so very close. Great tine bend....sigh cubed, only 2 X tine spread. I do recommend it if one has no semi-flex and likes a heavy pen.

One of these days when my wallet hurts to sit on, I've got to drive 15 minutes to the Lamy Factory and see if that section will fit on my old Persona..That is how good that nib is.......... so close and no cigar.

The Imporium is the second unused version of the Persona; designed by the same guy. The nib is new...and comes in black and gold or 'silver' and gold. A real sharp looking nib, of three or four looks.

 

I think my 1/2&1/2 flex system is closer than hand grenades, at least as close as horseshoes. It is subjunctive and requires a 'true' regular flex to have a base.

 

I do have dip pen nibs, some like the Hunt 99-100-101 make a Wet Noodle look uncooked. Others of lesser flex, are still more than Wet Noodles.

 

 

Often I thought the Japanese 'soft' nib as mushy. Mushy has fallen out of my use, in luckily I have none. Nibs that are a bit off the feed could be thought of as soft also.

 

I doubt if I'm ever going to get that 88, in it's time to start selling off some pens. The only pens that are of interest to me are the Geha 735, with rolled gold cap. I have the 725, a sleek most classic top balanced rolled gold trimmed pen, and a Geha 780. There are a couple Pelikans I want. A full '30's tortoise, a sea green 'tortoise'. A Toledo means selling half my Pelikans.

 

My Grail pen I'll not get, I spent the hard saved money on a flock of Pelikans. A Soennecken 111 Extra in herringbone. (Would do with a smaller 222 if it came down to it.) Lambrou rates it as the best pen of the '50's, better than the MB 146-9s and the Snorkel. I waited for half a year for one to show up and none did. The money burnt a hole in my pocket on the wharf and a flock of Pelikans followed the crumbs to my house.

Soennecken got into ball points too late so died. MB & Pelikan got into ball points early enough to survive. All three and Geha had an office supply company supporting their pen division.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson

[Calabria]

There is much discussion about the various advantages of steel vs gold nibs. On the Cafe Creme, I like the two-toned nib for aesthetic reasons - the two tone scheme goes well with the two color scheme of the pen.

 

I also have noticed that people are curious about this pen - more so, say, than my Marine Blue.

 

This whole discussion about "blobby" nibs is interesting to me. Nobody ever called the Naginata Togi (Sailor) blobby, although it arguably is. I kind of like the new nibs, I can hold them at any angle and they write differently according to how the tip touches the paper. I guess I'm not a purist.

[Bluey]

This whole discussion about "blobby" nibs is interesting to me. Nobody ever called the Naginata Togi (Sailor) blobby, although it arguably is. I kind of like the new nibs, I can hold them at any angle and they write differently according to how the tip touches the paper. I guess I'm not a purist.

I think perhaps because the Naginata Togi is skillfully and purposely blobby in a well crafted manner.

Edited August 9, 2017 by Bluey

[bbs]

Hi Bobo - what width nib were you trying in the Imporium? I have a broad Persona and can't say that nib felt very springy .... How does the Imporium nib compare with your Persona?

[Bo Bo Olson]

Persona's a nail.....I was so very disappointed way back when, when I found out a nail OB gave no line variation at all. It sat under the bed in it's box. Eventually PB made it a CI and it's always out.

 

The Imporium has a completely different nib.

 

Due to LOM, I'd not really given that nib all the attention it deserves. At the time I was looking for Dark Lilac ink, and in November was about 6 mounts late. It showed up in May and it was a one delivery only. SSOBs...

 

I'm not sure any more what size the nib was...it's six months since I tried it in the Lamy only B&M store on Heidelberg's main street. I lean to thinking it an M....it was 'silver' with the gold middle. Later I found out they have black and gold and two other nibs.

It is a completely different and more modern nib than the Persona.

 

I found the Imporium to have a great 'Springy' nib, better than the modern MB. Having the Persona, have no intention of buying the Imporium, but would buy an Imporium section if it fit. A section, has to be cheaper than the whole pen?????

[dapprman]

Seguing slightly, I have three gold Lamy nibbed pens, a fine Scala (Glacier) a fine Imporium (was originally medium) and a medium Dialog 3. All of them are wonderfully springy, making writing a very enjoyable experience, but as others have said, you can flex with them, quite successfully, but they are not flex nibs, and while they do provide noticeable variation, it is nothing like an old nib.

 

Back to the Cafe Creme - from my review on here you can tell I was not impressed by the QC on the pen, though it's on the finish, not the function. I'm also not a fan of the nib, but I've now tried several M800s and found it's the Pelikan style of nib I just do not like (in the same way I do like Lamy and OMAS), which is a shame as I do like the look of the M800 Renaissance and Stresemann. I still like it's looks though, which is unfortunate to a fellow member of the London (UK) Pen Club who wants to buy it from me.

[Misfit]

Late yesterday I succumbed and did find a Cafe Creme to buy at pencils.jp. It only came with a F nib at this late point. I prefer italic, stub and oblique nibs. I don’t know why I did not buy it two years ago, so it will probably cost $27 before shipping over the best price quote I was alerted to.

 

It will keep my newest vintage M400 Brown Tortoise company. I only had black/blue Pelikans until the tortoise arrived. It will be tempting to get, say an italic nib to fit M200, M400, and possibly the M405 I own. Pricey, but most likely worth it.

[Bo Bo Olson]

IMO modern oblique nibs in they are not semi or maxi-semi-flex are a waste of money. I've tried and have some. The nails no line variation. The 200's I tried some I trans-mailed to a passed pall in England in there are German sellers who refuse to ship outside of Germany.

I do have a bit more springy, '85-90 W.Germany 200....but's mash like hell to get some line variation. One can not write with it so mashed.

 

 

The ease of tine spread in my pre'98 standard sized 600 was much easier than expected....but at OBB wouldn't expect the nib to spread 3 X.....but is not quite semi-flex, but much closer to the W. Germany tad springier nib.........some line variation, but not up to semi-flex.

 

My 1005 OBB is not the hoped for semi-flex, but a butter smooth regular flex. (Shocked me how fast I got use to the Huge 1005.....so the W.Germany 800 has moved up my list....have tried one I trans-mailed to Spain. Liked the nib....though it's not of course semi-flex.....but then found the 800 too fat and clunky for me.)

There are 'some' line variation on them, but minor compared to the Vintage pre-war-'70 German semi/maxi-semi-flex obliques....and I do have one each OBB.

I have 16 oblique.

27 in regular non oblique semi-flex and some 13 or so in maxi-semi-flex

 

Then there is the nib grind angle.....in vintage...

 

I've not read anything, anywhere about the 30 degree grinds. I have a factory Pelikan 500 OBBB maxi-semi-flex in 30 degree grind.

In a mix of semi& maxi-semi-flex I have OBB, OB, OM and OF in both 30 and the normal 15 degree grinds.

Often I think back in the day of the Fabled Corner Fountain Pen Shoppe, with it's truly trained personnel, the salesman would ask, do you want a bit more flair on your semi-flex oblique....if yes, would go in the back room and grind it double out to 30 degrees.

I don't think I have any nib with say a 22 degree grind. All are @ 15 or 30.

But there I've not run into any info on the 30 degree grind.

[Misfit]

Question to all you Pelikan owners: pencils.jp should be a proper retailer for Pelikan, so my pen should qualify for a one-time nib exchange, right?

 

If so, will I have to send the entire pen in, or the nib unit?

[Bo Bo Olson]

with in 5 weeks of purchase date.

[Misfit]

Thanks Bo Bo Olson

Would I have to send the whole pen to Pelikan, or just the nib unit?

[Bo Bo Olson]

Whole pen I think.....It's been 7-8 years since I had my M on my 605 exchanged for a BB.

You do need your Pelikan paper that was stamped when you bought it or at least the sales slip. I sent mine off in it's box.....again a way that Pelikan can make sure the pen gets back to you in good shape., and you bought it regular not gray market.