Feeds-Simple And Complex

[pen tom]

This is a question that I've thought about for a while, but was hesitant to ask because I feel like I should know the answer. Perhaps I do.

I started collecting years ago with modern pens. I gradually moved towards mostly Waterman's from pre 1930 as well as some Pelikans.

Some of the modern pens have feeds that are quite elaborate and are a joy to behold. But the earlier pens tend to have feeds that are very simple. I have worked on some of the early Waterman's so I have some understanding of how the flow of ink works.

 

The exposed part of the feed seems to do absolutely nothing when it comes to moving ink. The early Feeds are as simple and efficient in design as they can be. The only channeling is on the hidden part of the feed. Some modern feeds on the other hand are extremely fancy, looking more like the heat sinks on an over-powered amplifier than anything related to writing. Don't get me wrong, I own and love Pelikan 1000s and a MB 149. And I would not change their beautiful design. However, what is the reason for all of the "feed elaboration"?

[Kenlowe]

Very good question.

 

For example the Watermans feed doesnt seem to suffer from its very simple design as compared to other highly elaborate and heavily finned feeds on other pens and it sounds like you follow the principle of form should follow function, as do I.

 

We will wait for the experts to illuminate us.

[Pendel]

Modern feeds with more plentiful and finer fins have more buffering capacity (capacity to catch and hold an overflow of ink), and so in principle are less likely to drip or to leak into the cap when slightly shaken or stirred, or if there is a burp.

 

If you do a search on the anatomy of a feed, you will find much info in this regard.

 

:-)

[OCArt]

The OP asked a very good question!

 

I did the FPN search on "anatomy of a feed" and got this meager result https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/229962-anatomy-of-a-feed/?hl=%22anatomy+of+a+feed%22

 

That page then referred me to Richard Binder's site with this article http://www.richardspens.com/?refp=feeds

 

Also see Mr. Binder's entry on comb feeds here http://www.richardspens.com/?page=ref/glossary/C.htm#comb_feed

[rwilsonedn]

Yes, ink-holding capacity is an issue. But you only need a lot of ink-buffering under exceptional circumstances, such as if the pen gets a bumpy ride nib-down, or if the temperature in the ink chamber changes a lot when there is a lot of air in there. When manufacturers could count on users treating their pens carefully, ink collectors weren't such an issue.

I wonder if part of the issue too isn't just style. Do you want to go to market with a high-end pen that has a very simple, rather chunky-looking feed, or one that is replete with delicately-carved fins, like the fins its competitors have?

ron

[Pendel]

I guess if you are Namiki, you can go with a chunkier feed on a flagship.

 

I like the argument about keeping up with the Joneses, but wonder whether it would apply well to pens that are aimed at pen aficionados.

 

:-)

[Tinjapan]

As I understand, the fins allow a place for ink to go, other than on the paper, if you set down your pen after a period of writing to grab a sip of coffee. They also provide a reservoir closer to the nib tip reducing dry starts.

[Frank66]

Feeds are important, I personally think this FPN forum section should be named "Of Nibs & Feeds" instead of "Of Nibs & Tines" which actually is a ''redundant'' repetition, since tines are part of nibs.

 

The importance of feeds comes to mind especially when we try to modify pens for flexible writing. IMHO, more information should be sought and presented on feeds, feeds anatomy and feed modifications in this forum, but again this is my personal opinion.

 

-Frank66

Edited September 14, 2016 by Frank66

[Fuellerfuehrerschein]

I have an Indian handmade eye dropper pen that holds 3.5 ml of ink in its barrel. This amount of ink cannot be practically used. The relatively modest buffering capacity of the simple feed inhibits that.

 

The traditional 6.35 mm (0.25 in) diameter ebonite feed is about 51 mm (2 in) long.

 

The feed allows about 2 ml of ink usage without getting into ink burping trouble. The warmth of the writer’s hand heating up and hence expanding the air trapped behind the ink in the barrel during writing is the cause of ink burping. During writing a subtle increase in ink flow indicates that I need to fill up the pen.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Fuellerfuehrerschein

[Frank66]

The OP asked a very good question!

 

I did the FPN search on " anatomy of a feed" and got this meager result https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/229962-anatomy-of-a-feed/?hl=%22anatomy+of+a+feed%22

 

That page then referred me to Richard Binder's site with this article http://www.richardspens.com/?refp=feeds

 

Also see Mr. Binder's entry on comb feeds here http://www.richardspens.com/?page=ref/glossary/C.htm#comb_feed

 

Thank you OCArt for your contribution. Just wanted to add a few more links about feeds after a quick google search:

 

1- from Richand Binder site again, very informative http://www.richardspens.com/?page=ref/feeds/evolution.htm

 

2- How to increase ink flow on an ebonite feed from FPRevolution http://fountainpenrevolution.com/inkflow.html

 

3- richardandtracy comment on feeds on http://https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/231789-making-nibsfeeds/

4- feeds of Desiderata and Wahl Eversharp skyline pens http://www.parkablogs.com/content/review-desiderata-fountain-pen-g-nib-matte-black-delrin-101-z

5- ink flow physics found at https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/273198-why-dont-fountain-pens-drip-ink-when-the-nib-is-down/ and http://dirck.delint.ca/beta/?page_id=20

6- feeds the hidden unmentionables found at http://dirck.delint.ca/beta/?page_id=279 and http://dirck.delint.ca/beta/?page_id=285

Edited September 14, 2016 by Frank66

[Bo Bo Olson]

'30's and before, needed a fast feed, in often the nib was superflex and needed a lot of ink.

 

With nails that really started coming in in the '30's buffering was needed because the nib didn't need to put out a lot of ink. Buffering slows the flow of ink....

 

In and after the '40's when the cheap pressed plastic nibs came in...that didn't hold ink as well as the ebonite feeds, more buffering was needed too.

 

The huge buffering unit of the P-51 was needed in they were of the first to use the cheap pressed plastic feeds, they had a very fast, quick drying ink that was discontinued do to feed damage of other pens...ate the ebonite. Gave Parker ink a bad name.

[fabri00]

I have an Indian handmade eye dropper pen that holds 3.5 ml of ink in its barrel. This amount of ink cannot be practically used. The relatively modest buffering capacity of the simple feed inhibits that.

 

The traditional 6.35 mm (0.25 in) diameter ebonite feed is about 51 mm (2 in) long.

 

The feed allows about 2 ml of ink usage without getting into ink burping trouble. The warmth of the writer’s hand heating up and hence expanding the air trapped behind the ink in the barrel during writing is the cause of ink burping. During writing a subtle increase in ink flow indicates that I need to fill up the pen.

I dont think burping is only due to the buffering capacity of the nib.

 

I have 2 indian airmail pen in ebonite with original nib and feed from airmail, and a 3rd one modified to hold pelikan screw nib and feed unit.

Burping is allmost same with pelikan feed/nib unit, and original one.

 

The same pelikan feed/nib unit mounted in a pelikan 200 piston filled, do not burp at all.

[handwriter]

The performance of a feed depends not only of its shape, but also of the material it is made of.

Early feeds were made of ebonite, which is porous and presents a porous surface thus facilitating the ink buffering and evaporation. In modern feeds made of less porous plastics, the presence of fins add surface to the feed to compensate the decrease in porosity.

[Tas]

This page, in fact the whole site, is a mine of information and knowledge.

 

Make coffee first though, it is very thorough . . .

[Bo Bo Olson]

Tass that was the greatest of links.

another fine myth bites the dust. :crybaby:

 

That's ok I still like my ebonite vintage feeds, but the huge buffering unit of the P-51 explains why you can fly with it.

Roughness did the trick....and with the way an ebonite feed was made plus the material...is still good to go.

 

So all the plastic feeds from way back when, '40s when they started to when this guy did the trick....'late '80s+, are substandard, unless the cutting machine was slightly off.

 

So which pen company did he work for Pelikan or MB???

[Jamerelbe]

....

 

So which pen company did he work for Pelikan or MB???

 

I think Lamy - he's been commenting on the Lamy forum about his past experience with their manufacturing processes...

[Tas]

Tass that was the greatest of links.

another fine myth bites the dust. :crybaby:

 

That's ok I still like my ebonite vintage feeds, but the huge buffering unit of the P-51 explains why you can fly with it.

Roughness did the trick....and with the way an ebonite feed was made plus the material...is still good to go.

 

So all the plastic feeds from way back when, '40s when they started to when this guy did the trick....'late '80s+, are substandard, unless the cutting machine was slightly off.

 

So which pen company did he work for Pelikan or MB???

 

Ask him he's on the forum Pengineneer.

He seems a lovely man and very good at replying and communicating . . .

Edited September 15, 2016 by Tas

[Bo Bo Olson]

After going to bed, before sleeping saying to my self....going to BASF in Ludwickhaven across the Rhine from Mannheim, a 20 minute drive; driving hours to somewhere (Essen) in north Germany and that feed did look Lamy....I decided he had to work at Lamy.

So I will have a better opinion of Lamy Feeds now....but all Lamy's are nails, so I don't use them much.

 

Two or three years ago they had a newspaper won tour of the Lamy factory which is some 20 minute drive from where I live, that I and my wife won. They gave ball points instead of pens as a parting gift. Lamy does make good ball points...and the machine that does the ball point 'cartridges' is '60-70's tec. My wife has 5-6 good Lamy ball points that somehow fell into my hands. She having left eye dominance and really canting the nib, don't use fountain pens, when she can help it.

 

My Lamy Persona is first model @ 1990....so it could or could not have the better feed.

 

From last weeks Weekend insert of the Rhein Necker newspaper's first page was a full page write up on Lamy...and fountain pens.

The writer made a mistake of having Parker invent the fountain pen in 1833...oh well..Waterman 1883...was not the first but the first that worked well. In @ 1900 Paul E. Wirt made the best fountain pens in the World....Sears and Roebuck said so. Eyedroppers of course. 1912 Sheaffer invents the lever rubber sac pen and @ the same time Conklin has a push half moon sac pen. Mark Twain loved the Conklin.

 

Lamy has 80% of the German market..world wide are in the front, with 100 million Euro in sales, with a 30% growth rate.

 

320 workers, claims to be the only German pen company that has 100% made in Germany. It can take 3-5 years to develop a new pen. Two years if they have all the parts on hand. Made 55,000 gold nibs last year.

The slit in the nibs...didn't say gold or steel is 0.08-0.12mm

 

I do know they make their own ink there. got a big huge cartridge machine. The cartridges come out, laying down. A big corner contraption of hoses to mix ink.

 

The newspaper article said making the clips is more difficult than one would expect.

 

So I'll have to use Lamy ink for my Lamy pens....and that seems to go for each pen company. Something both Pelikan and MB have claimed. I know MB inks were made in Austria and Switzerland. I don't know where Pelikan inks are made...some are made in Germany. I really don't save the boxes much.

Sigh......too bad I have two unopened other shaped vintage Lamy blue ink bottles.....he improved the ink too.

 

Unfortunately, the new Persona that the chief of design who led the tour said would be out next year...never came out.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Bo Bo Olson

[Frank66]

In continuation of post #10 above, and while we are still debating about feeds, here is another link useful about how to increase ink flow with feeds. I thought this might be useful for people with flexy nibs and starving / anemic plastic feeds. More adept people, please feel free to come up with more feed hacking ideas. Thanks.

 

7. How to Increase Flow on Your Ebonite Feeds Tutorial http://www.danielnovotnyart.com/2015/11/06/how-to-increase-flow-on-your-ebonite-feeds-tutorial/

 

8. Increasing Flow: Plastic Feed? https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/195351-increasing-flow-plastic-feed/

Edited September 16, 2016 by Frank66

[Bo Bo Olson]

Luckily, my Ahab worked with out fiddling, and my old vintage Ebonite feeds have never been a problem...but that was also a great link. The handsaw blade strikes me as better than a carpet knife blade.