Bottled Ink And Light

[Cause]

I regularly here people say not to keep a bottle of ink exposed to light (while many others I know dont seem to care) because UV light will damage the ink. But UV light can't penetrate glass (I have to use quartz in my science experiments because of this). Will regular light damage the ink? Or is this just an old wives tale kind of thing?

[Olya]

It is pretty much an old wives tale, bottled ink exposed to sunlight will not experience any harm. There are some other threads on the topic, one of which is a test which amberleadavis did and came to the conclusion that bottled ink exposed to (sun)light will not detoriate. I can't say if the same is true for iron gall inks, as I have never used those. I doubt that pigment ink is affected, as dye based isn't and pigment ink holds up extremely well on paper.

 

Here are two links you might be interested in, the first is also like yours a question on detoriation and the second link is another thread with a similar question, where amberleadavis has several links provided to fade tests (incl bottled ink in sunlight)

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/311220-ink-bottle-storage/

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/309450-led-lamp-and-bottled-ink/

[mr2txaggie]

 

 

I've often wondered this, too. I've seen the question of UV's effect on ink many times. And as many times as I have seen the question, I've seen many different answers!

 

Thank you for the links, they will be helpful.

[Sasha Royale]

My inks don't fear UV light. However, direct sun can heat the inside of the bottle. Nevertheless, after use, I return the bottle to its box, and put it in the cupboard. For me dropping and breakage are greater dangers.

[Olya]

You're welcome mr2txaggie! Opinions may differ and the tests were limited (ie not every bottle in existence was tested), but I think it's clear enough to conclude that we don't have to fear (sun) damage to our bottles and if you fancy an ink and want to keep it on your desk, then do so!

And think of the many many vintage inks people acquire and use with no ill effects to ink or pen.

 

I agree Sasha Royale, dropping & breakage are greater dangers, and possibly evaporation if kept in warmth (whether heating or sun), but that's easily salvaged with a bit of distilled water.

 

So really, just enjoy your ink on display as you see fit!

[white_lotus]

It is not light per se which damages artwork, drawing, or writings (made with pigments or inks) but UV light. Inside a bottle, which is stored inside a house is going to receive very little UV light. Therefore little damage will occur to the whole bottle of ink.

 

The ink on a page is a very small amount of dye. Just think how many lines/pages you can write with an ml of ink! So the amount of dye in a single word is quite small, the layer of dye quite thin.

[Runnin_Ute]

Do I take simple precautions like putting a bottle of ink in its box if I have one? Yes.

Is it really necessary? Probably not.

 

Where I keep my inks happens to be almost directly across the room from a west facing window that is pretty good sized. (4' x 6') I worry less when the bottle is amber versus clear however.

[queerspaceman]

I'm not an expert of any kind, but you're right about UV light not being able to penetrate glass. Could be it's light from a different area of the spectrum that people are worried about, maybe.

I'd personally be more worried about the heat from the sun messing with the properties of the ink, but I could be wrong about that.

[effika]

Standard window glass blocks UVB (commonly called the "burning" rays), but does not do a great job of blocking UVA (the "aging" rays). This is why you'll see people with more wrinkles/freckles on the side of the face that's near a window most-- such as when driving-- left in the US, right in the UK, etc.

 

Here's one study that focused on UVA/B transmittal and different types of glass. They found that blue glass passed the most UVA, green glass the least, and that window films made to block UV radiation worked as expected. UVB was stopped by all types.

 

Now, what that means for the dyes in fountain pen inks in bottles-- I can't say for certain. Are the dyes most vulnerable to certain wavelengths? (A chemist would know! And maybe some time spent searching academic journal archives would bring that to light, too.)

 

I think that two layers of glass would go a decent way to protecting the dye content, especially if the bottles aren't stored in a window. There are some tests from members (shown in the posts above) that show the inks come through fine.

 

Me? I would display my bottles out of direct sunlight if I had the room. Those bottles are so pretty!

[webgeckos]

I live one atmosphere from sea level, here water boils before it is at boiling temp. The sun is also very strong. You burn very fast here, winter or summer. All of my inks stay in their boxes and in a lightproof cabinet or cabinet drawers.

 

Pro my overkill but I tear my art supplies the same, and all the framed artwork in the house are behind UV glass.

[pjo]

Surely light does affect some dyes and stains through glass. The experience of curtains and other coloued furnishings, and the deterioration of plastics, in houses atest to that. I presume the fading/bleaching is a process of oxidation resulting from a reaction with particular wavelengths of light (most probably UVA, but maybe other wavelegths beyond the visible range).

 

Either way, some Iron gall inks can definately deteriorate in the botlle. I have found blue-black ink in the bottle can do so if exposed to light. Ink fading on paper not exosed to light may have more to do with the residual bleach in paper than anything else.

[Cause]

Just wanted to say thank you for all the replies. I think I will feel comfortable displaying a nice 30 ml MB ink bottle on my desk.

I wish I could buy those bottles empty! I am surprised there is not more of a market for beautiful ink bottles/wells. They are either cheap plastic (bleep) or 300 dollar crystal works of art!

[Barkingpig]

IF you are "up for the shipping charge" several US dealers do indeed sell their empty bottles after using the ink for their "samples." Anderson Pens, Goulet & Vanness have each supplied same for me. I was initially "fearful of the light," after spending the money I had to purchase several inks & kept them safely in closed cupboards; it was during this time I purchased many empties, which I then filled with colored water or merely added to the bottle reconstituting a paler version of the ink remaining in the empty bottle. I kept them on an open shelf in front of a window & worried NOT.

 

After probably a year, I decided if our Las Vegas Ink Maven, Ms Amberlea Davis could enjoy her many inks in glass doored cupboards in Nevada sunlight, I would join the club. Now I merely enjoy the many empties filled with "fake ink" & my four shelves of ink behind their glass doors. But these above mentioned US dealers have sold me, various MB, Akkerman, Graf Von Faber, Pelikan Edelstein, Bung Box "vase bottles", etc.

[Cause]

IF you are "up for the shipping charge" several US dealers do indeed sell their empty bottles after using the ink for their "samples." Anderson Pens, Goulet & Vanness have each supplied same for me. I was initially "fearful of the light," after spending the money I had to purchase several inks & kept them safely in closed cupboards; it was during this time I purchased many empties, which I then filled with colored water or merely added to the bottle reconstituting a paler version of the ink remaining in the empty bottle. I kept them on an open shelf in front of a window & worried NOT.

 

After probably a year, I decided if our Las Vegas Ink Maven, Ms Amberlea Davis could enjoy her many inks in glass doored cupboards in Nevada sunlight, I would join the club. Now I merely enjoy the many empties filled with "fake ink" & my four shelves of ink behind their glass doors. But these above mentioned US dealers have sold me, various MB, Akkerman, Graf Von Faber, Pelikan Edelstein, Bung Box "vase bottles", etc.

I'd love to by Caran D'ache or MB bottles (i have seen Goulet does not carry MB, i thought no one did). That said unfortunatly since I live in a geographical middle of nowehere (as far as fountain pens are concerned) I could buy a fill bottle of ink and pour the ink down the sink for cheaper than importing empty bottles from these stores.

[amberleadavis]

So, here is the result of my tests. I put actual bottles of ink in my window in direct sun. The ink in the bottle did not fade. As White Lotus explains, ink on the page does fade.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/254849-results-does-ink-fade-in-the-bottle/

 

As BarkingPig says, I show off my inks.

 

Here is a picture from March of 2014.

 

http://sheismylawyer.com/She_Thinks_In_Ink/Potions_Cabinet/slides/20140326_122405.jpg

[Sandy1]

Hi,

 

As I have no reason or inclination to put my inks (or pens or papers) on display, they are not evident until the dance begins.

 

Kindly take note that Member ESS advised that their iron-gall ink, ESSRI, be kept in the dark. As such, I extend that practice to all iron-gall inks.

XRef Post 364 https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/205705-ecclesiastical-stationery-supplies-registrars-ink/?p=2773554

 

Bye,

S1

Edited September 16, 2016 by Sandy1

[amberleadavis]

I would also think that heat and light both of which cause chemical reactions should be instrumental in breaking down ink. I can however report that the majority of my inks which were not in climate controlled areas (the caboose is in Las Vegas, Nevada which has summer temperatures above 110 F in the summer and below 32 in the winter) showed no signs of deterioration over a decade. The one exception was Pelikan blue.

[bleair]

I would also think that heat and light both of which cause chemical reactions should be instrumental in breaking down ink. I can however report that the majority of my inks which were not in climate controlled areas (the caboose is in Las Vegas, Nevada which has summer temperatures above 110 F in the summer and below 32 in the winter) showed no signs of deterioration over a decade. The one exception was Pelikan blue.

 

Cool, except now I have to ask, what happened to Pelikan blue, and how quickly did the deterioration "exception" happen

[amberleadavis]

Pelikan blue got chunky which is not attractive in ink.