British Pens...show And Tell.

[PaulS]

thanks for the quick reply - I did have my suspicions that it might not have been period - is there somewhere in the literature that I can locate details of these Newhaven nib details??

Regarding the name, always possible it may simply be that in the early years of WW II, a name like Victory could have been seen as an optimistic and positive name to give a pen, bearing in mind their general popularity as a writing tool form most adults. Understand that it was assumed by many people the war was not going to last long, and victory was just around the corner.

The other nib simply shows ENGLAND R, and possibly dates to nearer the early '40s.

[PaulS]

a few examples from Mentmore of which I'm a big fan, as much I suspect because they're affordable and attractive - so from the left.........

 

1........Paramount in red ripple, or should that be red woodgrain.

2........Diploma with semi transparent barrel

3........Black Diploma with monogram on end of cap - monograms appear uncommon - perhaps a piece of vanity from the late deco period - it has the notched 'Christmas tree' feed.

4........Major in pink and black marbling

5........Supreme in a sort of bronzed lizard skin.

[mallymal1]

The original Conway Stewart came up with some fantastic colours and patterns. The 3D depth of their pearl / marbled pens, the 'Herringbone' pattern, and their famous 'cracked ice' design.

 

Well, what about this Scribe 336? Light blue pearl AND cracked ice!

 

 

 

[praxim]

That is really nice.

[mallymal1]

What do we know about Osmiroid pens? I can find very little in THE book.

 

 

 

Left to right...

 

A torpedo shaped pen in swirling colours, with a srew-in Rolatip nib. Marked with "PROPERTY OF E.S. PERRY LTD." who, I believe, were the manufacturers ot these pens. Sadly there is a neat slice round the barrel, but I wonder if that is there to discourage people from 'borrowing' the pen. There has been some shrinkage in the material of this pen. The cap/barrel are tight, and the section/barrel even tighter. Cartridge fill. Have I seen similar pens marked 65, and also lever fillers?

 

A 65, with screw-in Rolatip nib. This pen is ok. With the all the threads working fine. Cartridge fill.

 

An unmarked Calligraphy pen. The nib and section are one unit. The push fit cap/barrel interface is loose and rattly...but the nib doesn't dry out. Go figure.

 

All three pens write quite well, with the nibs tending to have a sweet spot.

 

I quite like them.

[PaulS]

probably because they're a pain in the proverbial, and their niche success was probably more in the area of calligraphy than usefulness in straightforward handwriting. I remember them as school pens - the plastic shrinks, and as you say the caps jam on tight. They produced a piston filler with ink window, and I have a couple with plated and steel shorthand nibs. I no longer collect them - mind you there's probably shed loads of folk who might raise an eyebrow as to why I collect Platignum pens, many of which are no better than Osmiroid.

 

But they supplied a demand, and many school children cut their teeth on these things, and if you like them that's great.

Edited March 31, 2017 by PaulS

[mallymal1]

  On 3/31/2017 at 11:51 AM, PaulS said:

probably because they're a pain in the proverbial, and their niche success was probably more in the area of calligraphy than usefulness in straightforward handwriting. I remember them as school pens - the plastic shrinks, and as you say the caps jam on tight. They produced a piston filler with ink window, and I have a couple with plated and steel shorthand nibs. I no longer collect them - mind you there's probably shed loads of folk who might raise an eyebrow as to why I collect Platignum pens, many of which are no better than Osmiroid.

 

But they supplied a demand, and many school children cut their teeth on these things, and if you like them that's great.

 

Hi Paul. I have a few Platignums as well. I quite like them, too.

 

I think most of us who are interested in a bit of fountain pen history, go down the road of trying out the 'lower (bottom?) tier' pens, as these are the pens which would have been used by the populace as every day users. I certainly used fountain pens at school...sadly I can't remember if they were Queensway, Osmiroid, Platignum, or indeed Parker.

 

I don't think I shall actually 'collect' the Osmiroids, but I shall be on the lookout for good examples of the 65, and I would certainly like to add the 75 to my little group.

 

Looking on the Bay, there are a lot of junkers out there.

[PaulS]

Hi Malcolm - hope you didn't think I was being critical of your personal choice of pens - I've tried collecting a good mix of British pens, which is why I have a few Osmiroids - but they really are the pits at times, so I've stopped at the few I have. Having been an exponent of Pitman's and a 'touch' typist back in the late '60s - a male stenographer as we used to say - I have a soft spot for all things 'shorthand', so picked up the Osmiroids with shorthand nibs, but will draw the line there. I have some pre 1940 Platignum 'Visi-Inks', Golden Platignums, Petit's etc., but they're not for writing - those steel nibs are too scratchy for me, and the clips prone to surface decay........... but the colours are great.

Post WW II the nibs improved, and models such as Varsity and Pressmatic sometimes have good nibs, and I've a couple of the '100' models that had the same capillary filling system as early P61s.

But pens from the sister company Mentmore are much more appealing.

 

I think you're right about us trying various makes and going through periods of fashion when it comes to buying vintage pens - I've done the Platignum and Mentmore thing and other less expensive models and must now make the effort to try for better pens. Unfortunately, too many folk at markets and boot fairs etc. know what they have, and it's now not so easy to find good pens at bargain prices. I assume it's a sign of the pens success that most of what I find in charity shops now are Parker's I now don't do ebay - too much potential to be disappointed, and I prefer rummaging in the wild.

Edited April 1, 2017 by PaulS

[birchtine]

One of my old dreams has come true: the Waverley nib.

 

http://i.imgur.com/ejtcd6e.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/TfPIoqa.jpg

Cameron Self Filler, Macniven & Cameron, London, ?1920s. A giant pen: 145 mm closed, 141 mm opened (including the nib).

 

David Nishimura wrote the most interesting article on the Waverley nibs history several years ago: http://vintagepensblog.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/what-is-waverley-nib.html?m=1

[PaulS]

hi - thanks for posting - it's an impressive piece of kit, and presumably an equally impressive sac!! I've yet to see one in the flesh and know little or nothing of these beasts. David Nishimura's article is very interesting, so thanks too for posting that, although perhaps unfortunate that in David's opening images the 'turned up tip' isn't perhaps as easily seen as we might wish.

I could be wrong, but looking at some of the British Platignum steel nibs from the mid 1920s to 1940s period, some of these also appear to have a slightly up-curved tip - albeit without any tipping material - and the appearance of the point appears slightly spoon shaped. This looks to suggest that contact with paper would be with the back of the 'bowl'.

Whether there is tipping material or not, it does make sense that the part of the point that makes contact with the paper should not be sharp, so a curved area of contact is going to write more smoothly.

 

Not so sure I understand the original wording extract shown in David's article ..... "for writing on rough, straw, etc. paper......" must have played havoc with nibs

[mallymal1]

Here's a Waverly ED...

 

 

 

 

Not quite the impressive size of birchtine's giant, coming in at 135 mms capped, and 122 mms opened incuding nib. The barrel is chased, and the cap is plain.

 

No idea about the date, but I would have said (despite the fact that it is black, has some chasing, and is an ED) it is a later pen 1940's / 50's?

 

In the third pic you can get an idea of the angle of the tipping.

 

 

 

 

[northlodge]

  On 4/2/2017 at 11:29 AM, MalcolmH said:

Here's a Waverly ED...

 

 

 

No idea about the date, but I would have said (despite the fact that it is black, has some chasing, and is an ED) it is a later pen 1940's / 50's?

 

 

 

 

 

 

The market was flooded with these a few years back, the story doing the rounds was that a box of NOS items was found in a Scottish newsagents shop.

 

Not sure about the accuracy of that yarn, and I would agree with your 1940's assessment. It is clear that Swan, Curzon (S.200), and M&C all made late year ED's, and the belief that these were for the Indian market is a reasonable one.

[PaulS]

well, obviously the flood has subsided - I've yet to see one.

Having recently seen the results of someone else's efforts at removing oxidation from a BHR pen, at last I've now had a serious go at a Pitman's 'FONO' Lever Self-Filler c. 1930s, and the improvement can be seen in the second picture. It's tedious and requires that you suffer the sulphurous stink that's always given off when disturbing this material, but if the pen is cherished then the effort is worth it, although arguably it's easier if the surface isn't chased as on this one - but enough of the imprint remains to read.

The second picture shows two of the same model with only minor difference in cap ring, terminal of clip and lever design, and both have simply a Warranted nib - but good nibs with some combination of firmness and a little flex.

The implication seems to be that Pitman would have designed these for shorthand use, and although apparently not made by them, and despite suggestions of Waterman, TDLR, Wyvern and C.S., I think the actual maker remains unknown.

These c. 1930 pens are distinctive with their split cap design, and have a slim elegance with better quality plating - the clips simply show R.G. - and both have sections that push fit to the barrel.

 

The third picture shows what I'm sure are later models of the same shorthand pen........ they're shorter, lack elegance, and are possibly not BHR - these go under the names of 'FONO' and 'FONO' DE LUXE. Nibs on these two appear shorter and possibly don't have the same smoothness.

 

But pleased with the results in removing the oxidation - various grits starting with 1000 w.&d. upwards through 2500, 6000 then coarse liquid polishing cream and lastly a fine polishing cream - probably something like two and a half hours in total. The split cap allows the clip to be removed, but I had to mask off the lever, which isn't ideal, and probably slows the thing down. Will certainly repeat the exercise in view of the improvement.

Edited April 2, 2017 by PaulS

[mallymal1]

The Pitman isn't a pen I'm familiar with, Paul...yet.

 

The split cap pens look really good, and your work on the oxidisation is...remarkable.

 

Couple of questions...

 

What makes a good shorthand pen?

 

Having been a 'professional' pen user...do you have a favourite user pen?

[mallymal1]

  On 4/2/2017 at 3:37 PM, northlodge said:

 

The market was flooded with these a few years back, the story doing the rounds was that a box of NOS items was found in a Scottish newsagents shop.

 

Not sure about the accuracy of that yarn, and I would agree with your 1940's assessment. It is clear that Swan, Curzon (S.200), and M&C all made late year ED's, and the belief that these were for the Indian market is a reasonable one.

 

Good story, and yes, I can see that later ED's might bound for India. Good snippet. Thanks.

[PaulS]

Malcolm - when I 'took dictation' have to say it was with a pencil - probably an HB - in those days I never used a f.p. for shorthand .... for a variety of reasons pencils are possibly a little safer - you can have several laying in front of you ready for immediate use.

Pitman's method, as you probably know, relies on thick and thin strokes to differentiate consonants etc., and with experience a pencil is quite adequate for this, using slightly more pressure for the thicks.

Some manufacturers used a coloured cap jewel to indicate that a f.p. was designated for shorthand - C.S. used a green jewel and Waterman a red one - but they mostly have fairly firm points with little flex, if any at times - probably relying again on the user to press either firmly or less firmly.

 

I agree the de-oxidization job looks good - I must have a go at another 'brownie' soon.

 

As a collector, and not a writer, I don't use pens, and lack the patience to write letters, so it's a good job that I don't have any friends, and my several hundred pens sit gleaming in their cabinets. - but I do occasionally write out some favourite piece of poetry, to help me remember the words, and presently have an old 1920s g.f. bodied Waterman in use with a really great flexible nib - and a broken/missing clip.

[peterg]

It is fairly certain that Pitman's (like the later John Bulls) were produced by a variety of manufacturers and would add Langs to your list. Other probables are Altura and Valentine's.

 

I can definitely say that Waterman's produced some late (1960's?) pens, as they are stamped as such.

[praxim]

Onoto had a variant of their No.3 nib, the 3/ST, presumably meaning STenography. I have found the plain 3 nib a little nicer to use in my small sample, yet the 3/ST is good.

[PaulS]

something of possibly less general interest is this stylo from c. 1910 - 1914, made by Ormiston & Glass - the imprint shows 'THE TERRIER - BLACK & TAN - O. & G. L. ........... unfortunately missing its cap.......... I think it was a boot sale find some time last year.

When it was manufactured, this one belonged to a group of stylo pens described by O. & G. as 'The Kennel Stylo Pens, eight pens in total all with names of well known dog breeds such as Retriever, Spaniel etc. etc., and presumably these are technically ED pens, but I stand to be corrected. The plastic might be Vulcanite, but not sure and I don't think the wire is original. No doubt cutting edge stuff c. 1912, but think I'll stick with f.ps.

Length without cap is c. 87 mm - contemporary advertising said........ "Good Spring - Splendid Action - Price 1/- (now £0.05)

 

Ref. 'The English Fountain Pen Industry 1875 - 1975' - Stephen Hull - 2011 ............ p. 44 shows illustration of The Kennel Stylo Pens.

[northlodge]

I think most (but not all) Pitman pens were manufactured by Waterman UK. I have had a number of Fono's and College pens and noted the similarity with Waterman models of the period.

 

They have always had fine / flexible nibs, so are usually quite sought after.