Mabie Todd Nib - ?

[Le Vieux]

Hello all!

 

A few months back, I sent a couple of pens to be repaired and adjusted. One of the pens, bearing a strong resemblance to a Waterman 52 (black hard rubber, chased, lever filler) had this nib on it. I had the nib replaced with something that I actually can write with (the MT nib is damaged, see photo).

 

The nib was obviously returned to me, and I just remembered about it. I was wondering...what exactly it is and can it be re-tipped? Would it worth the expense of re-tipping? Is there any history behind this type of MT nib?

 

Thank you all in advance for your input, much appreciated!

 

PS- sorry about the quality of the photographs.

[Beechwood]

A good nib person could probably turn this into a very useful nib without retipping. You many want to research good nibsmiths in Europe, John Sorowka and Wim are two that come immediately to mind.

 

I presume that you will then be looking for a Mabie Todd pen to make use of the nib.

 

The sloppy cut down the nib should not make too much of a problem,

[Goudy]

It could be the nib from a Swan SF1 lever filler, perhaps 1920s, made in New York, as indicated on the imprint.

 

Does it have a nice flex? SF1 nibs are often beautifully soft and supple. If so and you have a pen it fits, then I'd say go ahead and get it fixed.

[Le Vieux]

It certainly has a certain degree of flex, something like 1-2 mm. Not much, and certainly not the angles I'd like. Feels a bit rigid, but then again, it is not fixed in a pen now.

 

Anyways, good to hear your opinions, greatly appreciated indeed. As some nibs are already with John Sorowka, I believe this nib will join.

 

Now, can you recommend some good MT pen, to go with this nib, please? Something perhaps to match the estimated age of it?

 

All the best!

 

Regards,

 

JT

 

http://www.minoxit.com

[Beechwood]

There are few more knowledgeable penmen than John and if the nib is to be sent to him I would ask him if he might know of a suitable pen.

 

As some nib reshaping is needed, and the nib is stiffish, I would personally go for an oblique. I have a Parker 51 with a rare right hand oblique, - intended for left hand writers - and it is a very good nib for this right handed user.

 

I am sure John will be able to help whatever you decide.

Edited July 3, 2016 by Obliquefine

[Le Vieux]

Much obliged, Oblique !

[Cob]

It certainly has a certain degree of flex, something like 1-2 mm. Not much, and certainly not the angles I'd like. Feels a bit rigid, but then again, it is not fixed in a pen now.

 

Anyways, good to hear your opinions, greatly appreciated indeed. As some nibs are already with John Sorowka, I believe this nib will join.

 

Now, can you recommend some good MT pen, to go with this nib, please? Something perhaps to match the estimated age of it?

 

All the best!

 

Regards,

 

JT

 

http://www.minoxit.com

I have had a number of Swans made around 1920 fitted with this type of nib; some of the pens were made in England others marked Mabie Todd & Co Ltd London, but probably manufactured in New York. Swans sold in England up to the mid 1920s usually had New York-made nibs.

 

Your nib appears to be a 2; so in your place I should look for a 2-SF or SF2 from the early 1920s, or if an eye-dropper is acceptable, a Safety Screw Cap No 2 from around that time or perhaps just a little earlier. Other possibilities are American-made pens such as the 142/242 models or SF130/230.

 

Cob

Edited July 3, 2016 by Cob

[Le Vieux]

Cob, thank you very much. I shall take a look at those pen you've mentioned. Again, thank you!

[Cob]

Cob, thank you very much. I shall take a look at those pen you've mentioned. Again, thank you!

You are most welcome. I daresay that Marc and Greenie may well have some suggestions - they are much more familiar with the American models than I am.

 

Bets of luck.

 

Cob

[Greenie]

Personally, I find retipping to cost more than it is worth for all but the rarest of nibs. it is a different story to get some type of custom tip work for your every day high volume writing pen.

 

The nib appears to have had the shank narrowed. That could also alter how well it fits in a new pen. The number, which would appear beneath the NY on this nib, might be polished off in a further attempt to make the shank narrower and thinner? All of my MT and Swan nibs have numbers, except perhaps a couple of my early slip/straight cap eyedroppers (over under feed type pens)

 

At any rate, with the tip issue, funny looking slit, and possibly some type of prior modification, I would keep this as a spare nib for some future use rather than repair it or find it a "correct" pen to put it in.

 

 

 

Is anyone familiar with this imprint lacking a number? Opinions on the shank contour anyone?

[Cob]

Yes of course I've seen one - I was asleep!!

 

I have one in front of me; it is a small nib, also with a broken tip (!). I removed it the other day from a Swan 100 eye-dropper, since I wanted the feed for my Chatelaine pen.

 

This nib is really too small to fit to a Swan fountain pen, and as Greenie suggests, a Swan 100 is nowhere near valuable enough to justify re-tipping.

 

Here's a terrible snap with a matchstick for scale:

 

 

Cob

[MarcShiman]

MT were pretty meticulous about numbers and labels for their pens and nibs in the 20's. That could just as easily be a late 30's nib when they stopped numbering them. Also the crappy workmanship (cut is off-center on the vent hole) suggests late 30's.

 

There's a retipper in Spain that is doing nibs for about 35 euro I think. The advantage of retipping it is that you can get it ground the way you want, there will obviously be plenty of tipping material. Its probably more expensive than finding a replacement, however. The problem with the replacement nibs is that they often are left with very little tipping material.

 

I am also curious why it was trimmed at the shank. Perhaps it went into a pen with a different filling system than a lever that required it to be shaped differently. Maybe it was cut to fit the pen that you found it in.

[MarcShiman]

Actually, if anyone near their collection of US pens can have a look (I'm far from my collection), take a look at nibs with the word "Mabie" in an arc like it is on this pen as opposed to just squared off text. I don't think the font changed (or if it did, not much), but I think the shape of the words changed and maybe the letter spacing. We might be able to date it like that if anyone has a selection of pens from 1920 to 1940

[Cob]

My Swan eye dropper is in fact a 1302 - USA manufactured - apologies for my earlier error. The nib, is reduced at the shank to fit the slot in the section. I have stolen the feed for my USA made Chatelaine.

 

Cob

Edited July 4, 2016 by Cob

[Goudy]

Another example (from penboard). Also unnumbered, also with an off-centre, overshot slit, also with a trimmed shank:

 

http://i.imgur.com/iOENqCj.jpg

[Le Vieux]

Thank you, guys. It is very kind of you all to help here.

[Greenie]

Actually, if anyone near their collection of US pens can have a look (I'm far from my collection), take a look at nibs with the word "Mabie" in an arc like it is on this pen as opposed to just squared off text. I don't think the font changed (or if it did, not much), but I think the shape of the words changed and maybe the letter spacing. We might be able to date it like that if anyone has a selection of pens from 1920 to 1940

 

 

I looked over my NY nibs and all of them have the MABIE in an arch. But my collection is more English. But even my later US arrow clip Swan Capacity pen has the "SWAN" on the first line in an arch. Hopefully I understood your question....

 

I would guess that I would need to take a whole lot of photos to really see things side by side to look for spacing differences... Interesting question though.

[Greenie]

Another example (from penboard). Also unnumbered, also with an off-centre, overshot slit, also with a trimmed shank:

 

http://i.imgur.com/iOENqCj.jpg

 

Hmmmmm. We now that we have a second one, what does that mean? Any chance this is the same pen floating around? Or is there some common model pen or feature with the narrowed shank nibs?

 

In the OP - You didn't mention what pen the nib came out of. Was it a BCHR Mabie Todd that resembles a Waterman 52? Or another brand, and the nib was a mismatch?

 

As for the picture in this post - does the source say or show what pen it came from?

[Goudy]

As for the picture in this post - does the source say or show what pen it came from?

Unfortunately, no. The owner just seemed to have the lone nib.

 

I'm curious to discover the pen model that this nib was designed for.

[Cob]

As I wrote earlier the shank is cut thus so that the nib engages in the slot in the section of eye-droppers like my 1302.

 

I'll post one of my lousy photos later.

 

Cob

Edited July 4, 2016 by Cob