Why Do Newer Gold Pilot Nibs Have A (Hidden) Giant Hole?

[JunkyardSam]

 

Look at the nib on the left in this image (also attached): http://imgur.com/hS0FuCu

 

See the giant hole at the top of the Pilot Custom Heritage 91 nib? That's new. Older ones don't have that.

 

See the #10 WA nib? There's no hole. My newer #10 WA nib has a big hole similar to the one in the left. (not a breather hole - I mean at the top of the nib, only seen if you remove the nib from the section)

 

By talking with people on Reddit - we discovered that, in fact, older nibs don't have this hole and newer ones do. It makes no difference whether the nib is gold or rhodium plated... We found examples of both.

 

My question is... why is this hole there?

 

It could be a guide for manufacturing but this seems unlikely since older nibs don't have the hole.

 

I believe the hole is there to save production costs. While it's a small amount of gold per nib - it must add up over time.

 

What do you think?

Edited June 25, 2016 by JunkyardSam

[Sasha Royale]

My guess would be that the hole facilitates mechanical handling during production. The nibs might be "stacked" on a stand, with a peg through the holes. Spaced on a pole, it would allow plating in mass quantities. (No experience. Just my guessing.)

[Cryptos]

Cost cutting exercise like shaving a coin?

 

Better flow characteristics for the feed?

 

Hanger hole so they can be converted into earrings?

 

[KBeezie]

I'm going to guess it helps with the manufacturing process, since they machine those out.

 

On the cost cutting side, I'm wondering just how much is 'saved' by that much removed over so many units versus the cutting of them (though what they pop out is probably melted down and used for more nibs, trims, plating, etc).

 

They may have changed the machinery to a system that's more efficient that calls for the hole, the older ones could have used older machinery hence why they didn't "need" it.

[PabloAU]

That appears to be a #3 sized nib, not a #5 as used in a CH91.

 

I'd guess the hole would be to either minimise costs or align the nib onto the feed.

[KBeezie]

  On 6/25/2016 at 7:46 AM, PabloAU said:

That appears to be a #3 sized nib, not a #5 as used in a CH91.

 

I'd guess the hole would be to either minimise costs or align the nib onto the feed.

If it's only on the #3, then the smaller size may be just small enough that they need a more secure way of holding the nib when being machined.

[Algester]

it does look smaller you sure its a 91 not a Legno 89 or a stella 90 which sport number 3?

Edited June 26, 2016 by Algester

[JunkyardSam]

Oops - that is the #3 nib in the photo -- however, I do have two Custom 91 nibs (F and EF) which have the hole. (Unlike the #5 shown in the photo.)

 

I also have a #10 WA nib from a PCH912 which has the hole. (Unlike the #10 FA in the photo.)

 

And again, people at Reddit confirmed the holes are present on recently made Gold nibs as well as Rhodium Plated -- so it's not "just" for the plating process.

 

Another interesting note is Pilot has declined to answer my questions about this hole -- when in the past they've responded to me quite quickly about other issues.

 

I agree the "hole for stacking/alignment" would make sense except it's something only done on newer nibs. The hole is stamped out at the same time they stamp the nib:

 

* STAMPING is at 3m39s if you want to see it - for some reason it won't jump to the start time as an inline video. (This is a cool Pilot manufacturing video, too, if you haven't seen it.)

 

The punched out holes would go into the same gold scrap with the rest of the gold sheeting to be melted and reused.

 

Pelikan, apparently, does the same thing to an even worse degree (IMHO.) See the attached image for the double-holes being stamped into Pelikan nibs:

 

 

Again, I'm sure the nibs work just as well but considering fountain pens are a luxury item I would rather just pay the extra dollar or whatever it is for the gold. Per pen it's a tiny amount of gold being stamped out -- so the savings is really for the benefit of the company moreso than the pen buyer.

 

I'm a huge Pilot fan and I have 6 gold nibbed Pilot pens so far... and I'll have more. But I do find this trend to be unsettling if it is, indeed, a corner-cutting measure for production cost savings... which I believe it is. When I pull a nib for deep cleaning or to swap nibs on pens it's always a little disappointing when I see the hole. I suppose it's a trivial issue but if all other things are equal I would prefer to have a "whole" nib rather than a "hole" nib!

Edited June 26, 2016 by JunkyardSam

[Algester]

maybe they change the machinery in which it has a slot or hole to hold the nibs during manufacturing that or indeed it could be a cost cutting procedure

 

can you get the date of manufacture on your nib maybe we can track it further down the line it should be on the underside of the nib else on the wings

Edited June 26, 2016 by Algester

[Bluey]

  On 6/26/2016 at 4:22 PM, JunkyardSam said:

Oops - that is the #3 nib in the photo -- however, I do have two Custom 91 nibs (F and EF) which have the hole. (Unlike the #5 shown in the photo.)

 

I also have a #10 WA nib from a PCH912 which has the hole. (Unlike the #10 FA in the photo.)

 

And again, people at Reddit confirmed the holes are present on recently made Gold nibs as well as Rhodium Plated -- so it's not "just" for the plating process.

 

Another interesting note is Pilot has declined to answer my questions about this hole -- when in the past they've responded to me quite quickly about other issues.

 

I agree the "hole for stacking/alignment" would make sense except it's something only done on newer nibs. The hole is stamped out at the same time they stamp the nib:

 

* STAMPING is at 3m39s if you want to see it - for some reason it won't jump to the start time as an inline video. (This is a cool Pilot manufacturing video, too, if you haven't seen it.)

 

The punched out holes would go into the same gold scrap with the rest of the gold sheeting to be melted and reused.

 

Pelikan, apparently, does the same thing to an even worse degree (IMHO.) See the attached image for the double-holes being stamped into Pelikan nibs:

 

pelikan.jpg

 

Again, I'm sure the nibs work just as well but considering fountain pens are a luxury item I would rather just pay the extra dollar or whatever it is for the gold. Per pen it's a tiny amount of gold being stamped out -- so the savings is really for the benefit of the company moreso than the pen buyer.

 

I'm a huge Pilot fan and I have 6 gold nibbed Pilot pens so far... and I'll have more. But I do find this trend to be unsettling if it is, indeed, a corner-cutting measure for production cost savings... which I believe it is. When I pull a nib for deep cleaning or to swap nibs on pens it's always a little disappointing when I see the hole. I suppose it's a trivial issue but if all other things are equal I would prefer to have a "whole" nib rather than a "hole" nib!

Thanks for sharing that video JS. Very educational and I enjoyed it.

 

My guess would be that Sasha is correct in that it's a hole that's used for the manufacturing process. I don't believe that it's a cost cutting measure.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Bluey

[Cryptos]

  Quote

 

Another interesting note is Pilot has declined to answer my questions about this hole -- when in the past they've responded to me quite quickly about other issues.

 

Just to be clear here. Have they simply not responded to your query, or have they written to you and stated that they do not wish to discuss it? This is an important distinction.

[MYU]

I doubt it was done to save costs, given the rather small amount of material. I'll be it was done to improve the manufacturing process.

[JunkyardSam]

  Quote

Just to be clear here. Have they simply not responded to your query, or have they written to you and stated that they do not wish to discuss it? This is an important distinction.

 

 

Lack of response doesn't "prove anything" although I can tell you from the PR training I've had at every company I work for -- 'lack of response' is how we tend to avoid questions where the answer isn't really something to which we wish to draw attention... Particularly when the question comes from "some dude on the internet."

 

Regarding manufacturing process vs. cost cutting... One doesn't exclude the other. People at Reddit had a hard time believing Pilot would do any cost cutting in manufacturing (which is weird because all companies do.) So I mentioned Lego, as an example.

 

The argument against Pilot cutting the hole to save money is because "it's a small amount." But remember, they make a lot of pens! And... it's gold.

 

Check out these Legos:

 

 

 

In this case Lego has added a hole into the posts on heads and sub-posts on bricks to reduce plastic costs. It's a TINY amount of plastic per brick... but consider the savings over MILLIONS of bricks. It adds up.

 

Also - look how the logo on the top side of the brick reveals a "broken off from a larger piece of plastic" defect... compared to older Legos where every individual piece is a really well manufactured brick. So in that case -- you can see how it's both cheaper in material costs AND easier to manufacture. In fact, the modern Lego bricks seem to use a lower quality plastic as well because my 35 year old legos often show less wear and tear than our 1 year old legos even though they're in the same box, played with by the same set of kids. Wow.

 

So I believe the hole probably is some kind of manufacturing benefit -- AND you can bet they save those scraps of gold and melt them with the rest of the scraps into new nibs. Of course they do.

 

I love Pilot. It's my favorite pen company and I will continue to buy their pens... I'd rather pay a little more and have a solid nib, though. These are luxury pens, after all.

 

 

[KBeezie]

  On 6/27/2016 at 8:25 AM, JunkyardSam said:

I love Pilot. It's my favorite pen company and I will continue to buy their pens... I'd rather pay a little more and have a solid nib, though.

 

These are luxury pens, after all.

That's debatable when we're talking bout pens like the 74, 91, etc. Seems like they advertise them more as user pens as opposed to being a luxury line. Especially when they're under 100 normally there. The gold nib itself isn't exactly for the prestige as it has a practical benefit that's been tested over time, but it of course adds some when jumping from the sub-$50 market. I just don't feel the pens we're talking about were ever put out there as luxury items.

[JunkyardSam]

These holes are found on Pilot Custom Heritage 912 nibs, as well... Pilot USA sells these for around ~$250 in America. I got mine imported with a WA nib for $150... While of course that's not "luxury" compared to high end Nakaya or Namiki pens --- it's definitely a price point where I didn't expect a company to sneak holes in the nib in the part hidden by the section.

 

So in these replies there's a weird combination of "well that's so little gold there's no way Pilot would remove it for cost savings" now combined with "well that's what you should expect from a cheap user pen like Pilot Custom Heritage 912." hehe!!!

[Polanova]

  On 6/27/2016 at 8:25 AM, JunkyardSam said:

Check out these Legos:

 

legos1.jpg

 

legos2.jpg

 

In this case Lego has added a hole into the posts on heads and sub-posts on bricks to reduce plastic costs. It's a TINY amount of plastic per brick... but consider the savings over MILLIONS of bricks. It adds up.

 

Also - look how the logo on the top side of the brick reveals a "broken off from a larger piece of plastic" defect... compared to older Legos where every individual piece is a really well manufactured brick. So in that case -- you can see how it's both cheaper in material costs AND easier to manufacture. In fact, the modern Lego bricks seem to use a lower quality plastic as well because my 35 year old legos often show less wear and tear than our 1 year old legos even though they're in the same box, played with by the same set of kids. Wow.

 

So I believe the hole probably is some kind of manufacturing benefit -- AND you can bet they save those scraps of gold and melt them with the rest of the scraps into new nibs. Of course they do.

 

I love Pilot. It's my favorite pen company and I will continue to buy their pens... I'd rather pay a little more and have a solid nib, though. These are luxury pens, after all.

 

 

 

That`s a good one, JunkyardSam!

Should I ever feel the need to buy Legos, I`ll make sure to buy older used ones

[parnesh]

  On 6/26/2016 at 4:22 PM, JunkyardSam said:

Oops - that is the #3 nib in the photo -- however, I do have two Custom 91 nibs (F and EF) which have the hole. (Unlike the #5 shown in the photo.)

 

I also have a #10 WA nib from a PCH912 which has the hole. (Unlike the #10 FA in the photo.)

 

And again, people at Reddit confirmed the holes are present on recently made Gold nibs as well as Rhodium Plated -- so it's not "just" for the plating process.

 

Another interesting note is Pilot has declined to answer my questions about this hole -- when in the past they've responded to me quite quickly about other issues.

 

I agree the "hole for stacking/alignment" would make sense except it's something only done on newer nibs. The hole is stamped out at the same time they stamp the nib:

 

* STAMPING is at 3m39s if you want to see it - for some reason it won't jump to the start time as an inline video. (This is a cool Pilot manufacturing video, too, if you haven't seen it.)

 

The punched out holes would go into the same gold scrap with the rest of the gold sheeting to be melted and reused.

 

Pelikan, apparently, does the same thing to an even worse degree (IMHO.) See the attached image for the double-holes being stamped into Pelikan nibs:

 

pelikan.jpg

 

Again, I'm sure the nibs work just as well but considering fountain pens are a luxury item I would rather just pay the extra dollar or whatever it is for the gold. Per pen it's a tiny amount of gold being stamped out -- so the savings is really for the benefit of the company moreso than the pen buyer.

 

I'm a huge Pilot fan and I have 6 gold nibbed Pilot pens so far... and I'll have more. But I do find this trend to be unsettling if it is, indeed, a corner-cutting measure for production cost savings... which I believe it is. When I pull a nib for deep cleaning or to swap nibs on pens it's always a little disappointing when I see the hole. I suppose it's a trivial issue but if all other things are equal I would prefer to have a "whole" nib rather than a "hole" nib!

 

 

I am a huge Pilot fan as well but I will just say that since I have been in this hobby, about 5 years give or take a few months, the price of Pilot pens have not gone up (in fact for me, they went down for the first 2 years or so as the Oz dollar went up). At the same time period, Pelikan pens have gone up by about 50%. So Pilot stamping the nibs is OK by me. Pelikan doing so, not so much because one of the reasons I have heard for their price hikes is the increase in gold price.

[MYU]

^ I didn't know that Pelikan raised their retail prices by 50% over 5 years... that's rather shocking.

 

When I said Pilot didn't do this for saving costs, I meant in terms of nibs. It looks to me like it's about 12~15 of those holes to make enough material for the foundation of one nib (minus the tipping material). Given how many of those nibs that Pilot makes, it doesn't seem like much of a savings to retool the nib punching process. Or perhaps Pilot is looking at a real long term cost savings. Who knows. Just as long as it doesn't compromise anything. Maybe it helps with aligning the nib to the feed.

[amberleadavis]

  On 6/27/2016 at 8:25 AM, JunkyardSam said:

 

Lack of response doesn't "prove anything" although I can tell you from the PR training I've had at every company I work for -- 'lack of response' is how we tend to avoid questions where the answer isn't really something to which we wish to draw attention... Particularly when the question comes from "some dude on the internet."

 

Regarding manufacturing process vs. cost cutting... One doesn't exclude the other. People at Reddit had a hard time believing Pilot would do any cost cutting in manufacturing (which is weird because all companies do.) So I mentioned Lego, as an example.

 

The argument against Pilot cutting the hole to save money is because "it's a small amount." But remember, they make a lot of pens! And... it's gold.

 

Check out these Legos:

 

legos1.jpg

 

legos2.jpg

 

In this case Lego has added a hole into the posts on heads and sub-posts on bricks to reduce plastic costs. It's a TINY amount of plastic per brick... but consider the savings over MILLIONS of bricks. It adds up.

 

Also - look how the logo on the top side of the brick reveals a "broken off from a larger piece of plastic" defect... compared to older Legos where every individual piece is a really well manufactured brick. So in that case -- you can see how it's both cheaper in material costs AND easier to manufacture. In fact, the modern Lego bricks seem to use a lower quality plastic as well because my 35 year old legos often show less wear and tear than our 1 year old legos even though they're in the same box, played with by the same set of kids. Wow.

 

So I believe the hole probably is some kind of manufacturing benefit -- AND you can bet they save those scraps of gold and melt them with the rest of the scraps into new nibs. Of course they do.

 

I love Pilot. It's my favorite pen company and I will continue to buy their pens... I'd rather pay a little more and have a solid nib, though. These are luxury pens, after all.

 

 

Thanks for this explanation.