Explanations Welcome: Why Is Lamy Vista Nib Becoming Gunky?

[DAYoung]

G'day folks,

 

I hope you're well. A quick nib question, if I may.

 

I recently replaced my broken Pelikan M205 clear demonstrator with a Lamy Vista. All in all, the pen works fine. But I've noticed the EF nib often gets gunky on the top (see photo).

 

I'm using Visconti red ink, but I suspect something else is going on. It looks like the very fine nib is actually scratching up bits of ink (from laser printed drafts) and paper fibre, and these are collecting on the top.

 

Has this happened to anyone else? Do you have any other explanations?

 

Cheers,

 

Damon

 

 

[Out0Mind]

A few thoughts. Do you feel any scratchiness as you write? It may be that the tines are slightly misaligned and paper fibers are being scraped up as you write, causing it to draw ink out of the nib when capped. Take a look under a loop and see if you can identify anything off.

 

Secondly, what's your work environment like? Is there anything dirty collecting in your cap that might be collecting on the nib?

[DAYoung]

Thanks, Out0Mind. The tines seem well aligned, though it is a little scratchy. My wife has the same pen in F, and there are no such problems. As for the work environment, no, there's nothing like that.

[DAYoung]

By the way, I chiefly use the Lamy for editing, which usually requires a less smooth nib. But I might rethink this.

[View from the Loft]

Hmm, it may just be a trick of the light, but in the second photograph, those tines do look fractionally misaligned - which may well contribute to what you are experiencing.

 

If you run a fingernail over the top of the nib from one tine to the other, does it catch or drop? If so, therein lies the answer.

[Ayoungentrepreneur]

Lamy 2000 (f) inked with J. Herbin Eclat De Saphir

 

Whoops, wrong thread.

Edited June 21, 2016 by Ayoungentrepreneur

[RMN]

  On 6/21/2016 at 12:02 PM, View from the Loft said:

Hmm, it may just be a trick of the light, but in the second photograph, those tines do look fractionally misaligned - which may well contribute to what you are experiencing.

 

If you run a fingernail over the top of the nib from one tine to the other, does it catch or drop? If so, therein lies the answer.

 

 

Indeed I would say the right tine is slightly elevated above the left.

But that's on top, and you should look at the business end.

 

Best is to look with a good loupe straight on.

 

On the picture the nib has caught a fibre of paper, or a stray hair.

 

 

Was your Pelikan also an EF? and was it about the same size?

 

 

While there are very smooth EF nibs, because they are so small, they tend to feel more scratchy. Reason why I don't prefer them.

 

 

D.ick

[DAYoung]

  On 6/21/2016 at 12:02 PM, View from the Loft said:

Hmm, it may just be a trick of the light, but in the second photograph, those tines do look fractionally misaligned - which may well contribute to what you are experiencing.

 

If you run a fingernail over the top of the nib from one tine to the other, does it catch or drop? If so, therein lies the answer.

 

Thanks for this. Yes, I ran a finger over the top, and it did catch a little. I wouldn't have spotted it otherwise. (I don't have a loupe.)

 

The fibre is actually from the paper itself -- picked up in writing. (I checked and cleaned the nib before use.)

 

Might be worth picking up a new nib.

Edited June 21, 2016 by DAYoung

[DAYoung]

  On 6/21/2016 at 8:09 PM, RMN said:

 

 

Indeed I would say the right tine is slightly elevated above the left.

But that's on top, and you should look at the business end.

 

Best is to look with a good loupe straight on.

 

On the picture the nib has caught a fibre of paper, or a stray hair.

 

 

Was your Pelikan also an EF? and was it about the same size?

 

 

While there are very smooth EF nibs, because they are so small, they tend to feel more scratchy. Reason why I don't prefer them.

 

 

D.ick

 

Cheers. Yes, my Pelikan was an EF. It was a little scratchy, but never accumulated gunk in this way. (My M215 is also EF, but is smooth. Likewise for my 400nn.)

 

As I mentioned above, I might just pick up a F nib and see how it goes.

[View from the Loft]

It's always good to have an excuse to experiment. And when your new nib arrives, and you have checked it for alignment, then you can try to align the EF nib. There are plenty of tutorials around on places like here and youtube.

 

Have fun!

[DAYoung]

  On 6/22/2016 at 7:31 AM, View from the Loft said:

It's always good to have an excuse to experiment. And when your new nib arrives, and you have checked it for alignment, then you can try to align the EF nib. There are plenty of tutorials around on places like here and youtube.

 

Have fun!

 

Yeah, I've realigned a vintage Pelikan 100N, but never a new pen. (Shouldn't have to, really.)

[View from the Loft]

  On 6/22/2016 at 11:58 AM, DAYoung said:

Yeah, I've realigned a vintage Pelikan 100N, but never a new pen. (Shouldn't have to, really.)

I agree you shouldn't have to, but I weigh up the inconvenience factor in returning for repair/replacement when it is something I can do myself. And always factoring in the price of the pen. What I might put up with and sort out myself on a £15 pen I would not put up with on a £150 pen.

[tamiya]

  On 6/21/2016 at 1:30 AM, DAYoung said:

Has this happened to anyone else? Do you have any other explanations?

 

where did u buy your Lamy?

 

Afaik they come from factory with M nib; EF nib suggests retailer swapped it over at time of sale?

 

Some shops are better than others in reinstalling nibs; fewer still bother to properly test the pen to see if it writes well before you leave.

[haruka337]

Flush out the pen and try another ink--it may be nib creep/crud. For the new ink fill, use an ink that is not known to cause nib creep/crud.

Keep in mind that nib creep/crud may be due to the ink or (in my experience with LAMY's Safari and Vista pens) the cap not sealing as tightly as some other pen caps. Leaving ink in a pen for lengthy periods will eventually cause nib creep/crud as well. However, I don't believe it to be the case.

Once you've ruled out ink or cap issues (not much can really be done about the cap), then consider adjusting the nib.

 

Good luck.

[DAYoung]

  On 6/22/2016 at 6:41 PM, tamiya said:

where did u buy your Lamy?

 

Afaik they come from factory with M nib; EF nib suggests retailer swapped it over at time of sale?

 

Some shops are better than others in reinstalling nibs; fewer still bother to properly test the pen to see if it writes well before you leave.

 

Cheers. I bought the Lamy at a local pen shop, who do have a returns policy. But you have to return it within a certain time, and I missed it (I was interstate). You can return it if it's faulty, but it has to be sent off to Lamy to be examined, etc. I might still do this, but I need a pen to edit with in the meantime. I should check whether they need the whole pen, or just the nib. (If the latter, I could just buy the F nib and send the other.)

[DAYoung]

  On 6/22/2016 at 7:19 PM, haruka337 said:

Flush out the pen and try another ink--it may be nib creep/crud. For the new ink fill, use an ink that is not known to cause nib creep/crud.

 

Keep in mind that nib creep/crud may be due to the ink or (in my experience with LAMY's Safari and Vista pens) the cap not sealing as tightly as some other pen caps. Leaving ink in a pen for lengthy periods will eventually cause nib creep/crud as well. However, I don't believe it to be the case.

 

Once you've ruled out ink or cap issues (not much can really be done about the cap), then consider adjusting the nib.

 

Good luck.

 

Thanks. Yeah, it happened almost immediately, as I wrote -- so I don't think its a cap issue. It might be the ink (Visconti), though in my experience they're pretty good. I suppose the best test would be a Lamy ink, though I know little about their range.

[Pen Engineer]

EF nibs are always tricky. The miss alignment we talk about, sufficient to cause the your problem, is in the range of tenth of microns. Detailed explanations you can find at the following link

 

https://fountainpendesign.wordpress.com/fountain-pen-nib-function-material-manufacture/nib-mechanics-function-performance-geometry/

 

Sometimes, the edge formed by the bead and the slit is not de-burred properly. You will need to spend some money on a loupe, 5 times magnification should do. Then you can see it. We used a diamond blade shaped like a knife and "filed" this edge. You may not have that. A small strip of 1000 grit polishing paper glued on an old knife may do the trick. Alas, it makes the writing a bit "wetter".

 

And, this is not meant as an excuse, but printing paper has a lot of powdery solids loaded on top of the actual paper fibres. This paper is designed for printing, good contrast and fast drying,,, not for writing, actually.

[Pen Engineer]

  On 6/23/2016 at 9:01 AM, DAYoung said:

 

Cheers. I bought the Lamy at a local pen shop, who do have a returns policy. But you have to return it within a certain time, and I missed it (I was interstate). You can return it if it's faulty, but it has to be sent off to Lamy to be examined, etc. I might still do this, but I need a pen to edit with in the meantime. I should check whether they need the whole pen, or just the nib. (If the latter, I could just buy the F nib and send the other.)

If you don't absolutely need and EF, I'd recommend to opt for the F, anyway.

[Pen Engineer]

  On 6/23/2016 at 9:03 AM, DAYoung said:

 

Thanks. Yeah, it happened almost immediately, as I wrote -- so I don't think its a cap issue. It might be the ink (Visconti), though in my experience they're pretty good. I suppose the best test would be a Lamy ink, though I know little about their range.

Red inks have a higher acidity, thus dissolve more of the powder on the paper. It does exacerbate the problem but is not the cause. It's the nib, as you suspected.

[DAYoung]

  On 6/23/2016 at 9:21 AM, Pen Engineer said:

EF nibs are always tricky. The miss alignment we talk about, sufficient to cause the your problem, is in the range of tenth of microns. Detailed explanations you can find at the following link

 

https://fountainpendesign.wordpress.com/fountain-pen-nib-function-material-manufacture/nib-mechanics-function-performance-geometry/

 

Sometimes, the edge formed by the bead and the slit is not de-burred properly. You will need to spend some money on a loupe, 5 times magnification should do. Then you can see it. We used a diamond blade shaped like a knife and "filed" this edge. You may not have that. A small strip of 1000 grit polishing paper glued on an old knife may do the trick. Alas, it makes the writing a bit "wetter".

 

And, this is not meant as an excuse, but printing paper has a lot of powdery solids loaded on top of the actual paper fibres. This paper is designed for printing, good contrast and fast drying,,, not for writing, actually.

 

 

Thanks very much. That page is extremely helpful.